Majesty's Wafers or Doing Away with Supplements

[Ceffyl_Dwr]

I’ve not reordered supplements since a conversation with my vet where she said she rarely ever comes across a horse on good quality hay with vitamin or mineral deficiency. I then asked her if supplements are wasteful. The answer was that supplements certainly don’t harm the horse, and if it makes me feel better, great. So as he ran out of supplements over the summer, I stopped replacing since he’s an incredibly picky horse who left most of the food in the bucket anyway.

My farrier mentioned at his last shoe that his feet looked great, and I had noticed over the summer that he had quite a nice dapple and shine.

All that to say, I find myself in the hairdresser’s chair thinking about firing that old FeedXL subscription up and building some Smartpaks.

For reference, he was on 1lb of beet pulp as a carrier, KER Omegas, Nano-e, Farrier’s Formula, salt, Sporthorse Grass (and very much not a sporthorse! Hahah). He did have a bloodwork done over the summer at a point when most of his supplements had been phased out and nothing was amiss.

Has anyone else done away with supplements?
Anyone use the Majesty’s wafers? I was thinking of picking up a bag of their Wafers to feed as treats and fill my perhaps irrational need to feed a supplement. Are they overpriced gimmick?

[wsmoak]

I’m with your vet. Horses need forage, water, and room to move.

I did have a young horse on a ration balancer on the “it can’t hurt” principle because he was on a local grass hay at the trainers instead of the usual orchard/timothy I like to feed.

You may find some of Dr. Ramey’s articles useful, he is not a fan of supplements either:

Separating Owners From Their Horses (and How to Stop It) - David Ramey, DVM

[Ceffyl_Dwr]

I probably should have added that he’s turned out 24/7 in dirt, which is why I fed supplements.

[BlueDrifter]

Getting a second horse meant I fired up FeedXL and needed to streamline my supplement habits. This is my new program and unbelievably checks all the FeedXL boxes. VitE is right at 100% and I may add Micronutrients capsule…

Beet pulp: carrier and I like it for mash
Ration Balancer and Vitamin: because they have no pasture, just hay(TC20%, ShoGlo)
Omega3: because of shine and anti-inflammatory properties
Salt: salt block access plus white salt added
Hay: 75% Orchard, 25% alfalfa

[Scribbler]

Our hay has variable to low minerals and obviously no vitamin E. I feed a mash of beet pulp and alfalfa cubes to carry the most cost effective wide spectrum VMS in my market (Madbarn Omneity powder) salt and a cup of whole flax.

I feel better when I take my Centrum 50 plus, no leg cramps! I didn’t bother with human VMS when I was younger.

I feel like a multivitamin is a good backup. Omneity has better copper zinc biotin than the actual hoof supplements.

[Mango20]

I don’t feed any supplements but I do feed a ration balancer.

[candyappy]

I have never fed supplements to my horses until now. I do have my mare on MSM for the last couple of years, due to her slight ringbone / sidebone but I really don’t think it makes any difference TBH.

All my horses have had shiny coats and excellent feet and were not being fed a grain ration either.

I do feed a RB now. Just 1 cup at each feeding. They are all easy keepers and don’t need anything more than hay but they like it.

[Ceffyl_Dwr]

Now that it’s been a significant amount of time, it probs my makes sense to have him checked. A shiny summer coat gave me peace of mind, but now that he’s a fuzzy mess, I feel less confident in the visual clues.

[greywithchrome]

I can’t quite see where your vet is coming from because not all hay is equal and there is varying ideas of what is considered “good quality hay”. I think in the summer when a horse has access to fresh grass they are likely getting most of the vitamins/minerals they need but in the winter you’re relying solely on the hay (at least where I live). Would my horse suffer on just a hay diet? No, probably not. But she doesn’t get to pick and choose what she’s putting in her body to make her feel good so I’d rather just supplement in certain areas to make sure my bases are covered. Nothing special, just an RB with some extra vitamin e, magnesium, and omegas in the winter.

[George_T_Mule]

My Equines get a Probiotic (Fastrack), served at a minimal level every morning.
I understand that current research suggests that probiotics don’t really do much (I’ll post a link at the bottom), but I have done this for years, and if it doesn’t help, it doesn’t hurt either. And its inexpensive.
We live in a semi-arid climate on the Colorado Front Range, and while the critters get plenty of turnout time, there just isn’t that much out there for them to eat. Mostly they eat dry hay, some Alfalfa, a pound of grain/ration balancer twice a day, and assorted treats once in awhile. So along with their cereal they get the ration balancer, again served at a minimal level. This is a cost item, but not a huge one, and it certainly doesn’t hurt; maybe even helps a little.
This is an interesting article regarding current Equine research into the effectiveness of various supplements:

What Research is Saying About Supplements for Horses – The Horse

[JB]

@Ceffyl_Dwr

she rarely ever comes across a horse on good quality hay with vitamin or mineral deficiency.

based on what? You can only test blood for a few things, and its pretty guaranteed if a horse is eating only hay for long enough, he’ll be Vit E deficient, and potentially Vit A as well. You can’t test blood for mineral nutrient status, barring selenium, and copper is a bit meh on indicating nutrient status. The rest are out.

@Ceffyl_Dwr

The answer was that supplements certainly don’t harm the horse,

They certainly can, if you are overdoing it on things like selenium, Vit E, Vit A (but not beta caroteine), iron, and if your supplements are putting the ratios of some mineral enough out of balance.

There are plenty of areas where selenium in forage is too low and supplementation if needed.

Most forages provide plenty of Mg, but some don’t.

A WHOLE lot of forages don’t provide even the bare minimum RDA of copper and zinc, due to soils being high in iron. I’ve seen plenty with copper at 3ppm, which at 22lb, is only 30mg, and the 500kg horse eating that 22lb needs 100mg. A lot of those forages have zinc in the 7-10ppm range which is 70-100mg, when that same horse needs 400mg.

[LCDR]

Every vet I have used for the last 40 years has said that supplements are placebos for owners. My farriers all have said the same specifically about hoof supplements.

If diagnostic tests are done and there is a specific problem or nutritional deficiency to be addressed, that is a horse of a different color called science.

[scislandsprite]

I like the Majesty’s Wafers, not sure how effective they are but my horse eats them so I can’t complain. I’m definitely aware that a lot of supplements are probably just me lighting money on fire. However, my anecdotal experience is that after starting California Trace + last winter, my horse didn’t bleach at all this summer. Hoof growth definitely looks better too. If it doesn’t hurt them to add it, I don’t usually mind feeding it.

Hence why I still feed supplements for GI, magnesium, and joints as well

[Scribbler]

So I definitely see a difference between vitamin mineral products, and some of the more herbal or nonproven supplements.

Most people aren’t getting their forage analyzed, and as JB says there are certain key nutrients we know are going to be missing already. For me a VMS (or a ration balancer with comparable coverage, which doesn’t exist in my market) is a useful upgrade for horses, as it is for people.

I have also found one brand of probiotics to be useful for stopping persistent diarrhea. Actually I have a horse brand and a human brand.

But there are a lot of supplements for horses and humans both that have scientifically incoherent claims or are just repackaged VMS.

[Amy3996]

@Ceffyl_Dwr

Has anyone else done away with supplements?

I was very much taken in by SmartPak marketing a few years ago. Our vet looked at my horse’s extensive SmartPak strip and said “If your horse’s feed regimen starts looking like you’re baking a cake, you’re doing too much.” I got a chuckle out of that but appreciated the sentiment.

Now I try to limit it to things I know from labs are deficient (Vit E/Selenium), or seasonal needs (salt/electrolytes). My TB has been off supplements aside from the above for almost 6 months now. He gets 6lbs of Ultium, 1lb Amplify, free choice grass hay, and 10-15lbs of third cutting alfalfa per day. His feet are better than they’ve ever been, his weight and coat are great, and he’s licking the bucket clean at every meal.

I will say I found my easy/moderate keeper WB harder to feed than my TB. He needed more calories than just a ration balancer, but a full 5-6lbs of concentrate like TC Senior would’ve been too much. So having to combine a pound of RB and 2-3lbs of Senior felt imbalanced even if it wasn’t, so I was tempted to start concocting things. The TB is easier because I know he’s getting quality nutrition in a full ration of one product - Ultium.

[JB]

@LCDR

Every vet I have used for the last 40 years has said that supplements are placebos for owners

“Supplements” is much too broad a category to definitively state they are placebos

@LCDR

My farriers all have said the same specifically about hoof supplements.

If the forage isn’t providing enough trace minerals, or amino acids, then supplements of those nature can 100% make an improvement

It’s been proven that supplementing biotin can make a significant difference in hoof growth and integrity. While most horses make plenty of their own, not all do, and those benefit from supplementation

The vast majority of horses would benefit, from an optimal health perspective, from some supplementation of some kind at some point

People don’t even get everything we need, nearly ever single human is deficient in at least a few things, and many are deficient in a lot, to a small or large degree, either because we choose not to eat certain foods, or don’t have access to them (regularly).

“Supplements” has many categories, so cannot ever be lumped into “they’re useless and wasting money”.

@Amy3996

I found my easy/moderate keeper WB harder to feed than my TB. He needed more calories than just a ration balancer, but a full 5-6lbs of concentrate like TC Senior would’ve been too much. So having to combine a pound of RB and 2-3lbs of Senior felt imbalanced even if it wasn’t

If you start looking at things from a “one serving” perspective, it helps.

Let’s say he should get 6lb (1 full serving) TC Sr, but that’s too many calories.
Let’s say he should get 1.5lb (1 full serving) of TC Balance, but that’s not enough calories

Splitting the difference with 3lb (1/2 serving) of Sr and .75lb (1/2 serving) Balancer gives you 1 full serving again

TC even gives you the instruction to add some bit of the Balancer if you feed less than 4lb (I think) of TC Sr.

[beau159]

@Ceffyl_Dwr

Has anyone else done away with supplements?
Anyone use the Majesty’s wafers?

I feed the BioMane wafers from Majesty. I don’t know that my horses “need” it but they’ve got great feet and great hair so I like to think it’s working. I like that they are super easy to give and I’m not messing with powders and such, especially in the middle of winter. I showed them to my farrier and he thought they were reasonable amounts of nutrients, for being in a wafer form. They could have been a little higher on some of the amounts, but again, not bad for a wafer.

Overall, I’ve really tried to simplify my supplements over the years, and really only feeding what is needed. When I am riding regularly, all my horses get a cup of Purina Outlast and about 1/2 pound of Purina Ultium Gastric Support. Really, any trace vitamins/minerals they needs are in there.

Then Lilly and Red get the CEP Daily Lung. Gets rid of winter cough, keeps away summer dust cough. Red also get Red Cell for a little extra “spark” for running barrels. But both of these are easy to feed because I do the pellet form and it’s very small amounts.

During the winter when we are not competing, they get nothing for supplements except the Majesty BioMane Wafer, and an Outlast cookie or two.

[Scribbler]

Those wafers look pricey for what they are.

[lenapesadie]

That was my thought when I was looking at them. Why waste my money on these cookies when I can buy biotin, cu/zn and have actual therapeutic doses for a fraction of the cost?

OP I’m sure there are some (perhaps many) supplements that aren’t nearly as effective as the horse owners’ hope they are, but to say that “supplements don’t work” is simply incorrect. My horse doesn’t sweat without his one ac or refresh supplement.

[LCDR]

When I use “supplement” I refer to substances referred to in their marketing by that term. Some folks will give every horse in their barn the same supplement and dose, often based on little but advertising.

My background is in clinical pharmacology research. I believe that any supplement administration should be based on results of veterinary testing of the individual horse. In that case a “supplement” becomes a treatment or therapeutic.