Major article in NYT

[jetsmom]

[QUOTE=lifesabreeze;6216289]

and yes,they all care very much.

Everyone I encounter in racing is working hard to get rid of the bad apples. .[/QUOTE]

Then you need to come out here and encounter the people at Sunland Park and Hobbs, and Ruidoso.
I live 10 min from Sunland park and the numerous fatal breakdowns there are well known. As are the number of OTTB’s that go straight to the local kill pen at the Thurs night auction on the East side of town. They aren’t doing anything to look out for the horses. And drug testing/penalties are a joke.

[Introspect]

[QUOTE=lifesabreeze;6216289]
You should refrain from calling anyone naive when you are so out of touch with what is going on in racing now.

and yes,they all care very much.

Everyone I encounter in racing is working hard to get rid of the bad apples. I stayed away from racing for a while because of the head in the sand attitude. I am very proud to step back into the industry. They are tackling the issues head on now.[/QUOTE]

Just give me one great example of who is successfully getting rid of the bad apples?
A lot of people care very much. You care, I care, many care, but the model is broken.
What entity is taking on the big issues “head on now”?
I’m not out of touch; I’m fully jaded because I’m too close.

[Introspect]

[QUOTE=lifesabreeze;6216125]
Having rode and trained thousands of horses,I can tell you that the charts can be quite inaccurate.[/QUOTE]

Inaccurate charts are another fixable problem that never gets fixed, no?

[lifesabreeze]

[QUOTE=summerhorse;6216338]
I actually didn’t find much wrong with that article. Sadly it is all true. I love horse racing but I am not fond of a large segment of the people in it. The bad people seem to outnumber the good anymore and treating horses like replaceable cogs is common even in some people who I know really do love horses. But they seem to be able to put some of them in a different catagory mentally. Not saying they don’t care when the horse dies but it is quickly replaced. And until the people in horse racing decide they are not going to put up with the cheaters like the ones so rampant in NM then there will be lots of cheaters. And the horses are the ones that pay.

As for Archarcharch he DID break a leg and it DID end his career and if he had not been such a nice horse his options may have been very limited. Luckily he was worth money as a stallion prospect.

I gave up following QH racing eons ago when even “I” with limited (no internet then) access could tell they were going through horses at an alarming rate. And it is worse now!

I’m sorry but in my opinion a horse that needs all those drugs to run shouldn’t be anywhere near a track.[/QUOTE]

There is quite a bit of untruth in that article,I am guessing you have limited knowledge of horseracing and the issues involved.

I too wish all the Sport Horses were competed without drugs. Racing is leading the pack with their testing and is trying to find more ways to give their rulings more teeth. It is not an easy endeavor, but at least they are trying.

This is a Sport Horse forum where many replace horses as they look for ones that can compete at the levels they wish to pursue.

The statistics are off in that article and they based them on faulty information.

[lifesabreeze]

[QUOTE=Introspect;6216353]
Inaccurate charts are another fixable problem that never gets fixed, no?[/QUOTE]

That makes no sense. It is a betting publication with a person watching the race and guessing at why a horse was eased or pulled up. They are also guessing as to why a horse is lame. They are not privy to know if a horse just lost a shoe or stepped on a heel. Those are easily fixed and healed with no long term damage.

The person writing the charts are giving their opinion and others betting decide whether they wish to use it for handicapping purposes. They don’t actually know if a horse stopped trying or was just not talented enough to keep up.

The comments are just opinions of the chart writer and are not an official publication of the tracks or the trainers,owners,jockeys etc. Sometimes they are rewritten if new information shows up at a later date,as in a lost shoe for an ease, but usually only in a high level stake race.

Any issues you have with chart writers you would have to take to the handicapping publications that make them.

This is why it was a poor choice to base statistics for this article on charts.

[lifesabreeze]

[QUOTE=Introspect;6216346]
Just give me one great example of who is successfully getting rid of the bad apples?
A lot of people care very much. You care, I care, many care, but the model is broken.
What entity is taking on the big issues “head on now”?
I’m not out of touch; I’m fully jaded because I’m too close.[/QUOTE]

Your comment about charts show me just how far away from horseracing you are. You know very little and maybe someone else will take the time to teach you. Or you could do some research and teach yourself. A search on here will bring up quite a bit of knowledge. Or just start from page one on the racing forum and start reading.

[lifesabreeze]

[QUOTE=jetsmom;6216345]
Then you need to come out here and encounter the people at Sunland Park and Hobbs, and Ruidoso.
I live 10 min from Sunland park and the numerous fatal breakdowns there are well known. As are the number of OTTB’s that go straight to the local kill pen at the Thurs night auction on the East side of town. They aren’t doing anything to look out for the horses. And drug testing/penalties are a joke.[/QUOTE]

I don’t feel like doing a search,but I do recall some recent news about drug testing in NM. There is quite a bit of industry buzz about the area and many want and are pushing for more changes.

Do you read any of the TB trade mags nationally or for your area?

As far as horses going to the kill pen that is a whole different topic I will not dispute with you here. Unless your ara side wishes to make this another slaughter thread?

ok here is some I found with a 2 second search
http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=19655
http://www.standard.net/stories/2012/02/27/changes-store-new-mexicos-horse-tracks

more NM related stories,it looks like they are at least acknowledging the problems in there jurisdiction and s l o w l y rectifying the problems there

http://nmhorseracingnews.com/category/medication-news/
The culture is different in NM and AZ and this is more than I expected in a trade mag from the area. I was in AZ in the early '80’s.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/60260/sunland-park-receives-full-accreditation
They are making attempts at improving per above article.

[lifesabreeze]

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20120322/BUSINESS/303220076/1037/rsslink
some info or new surfaces that are being tried

http://www.chrb.ca.gov/annual_reports/2011_annual_report.pdf
some info from Cali tracks

http://www.drf.com/news/aqueduct-nyra-adjust-bottom-claim-level-purses-following-breakdowns
info about what they are trying at Aqueduct to reduce breakdowns

http://www.drf.com/news/california-changes-claiming-rule-involving-horses-who-are-euthanized-track
some more Cali info on what they are trying to do to reduce breakdowns

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/tag/equine-injury-database
a list of injury related articles from Bloodhorse mag

http://www.jockeyclub.com/initiatives.asp?section=2
a list of participating racetracks for database
This is new and pressure is being put on those not on board with this.

There is a start for all those who say they know so much about what the industry is trying to do to reduce breakdowns and/or get rid of drugs. If you don’t have the time for a bit of research,please refrain from pointing the shame finger at all racetrackers.

There are more articles out there it is a top issue in all the racing trade magazines. That is why I am getting back into the game. I have never seen so much attention paid to improving this sport as I do now.

[lifesabreeze]

http://www.jockeyclub.com/safetyInitiatives.asp

http://www.jockeyclub.com/information.asp

http://www.jockeyclub.com/ROUNDTABLE.asp

more information

http://www.jockeyclub.com/tsc.asp?section=4

[lifesabreeze]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/67383/thoroughbred-aftercare-alliance-formed

new aftercare alliance formed

http://www.thoroughbredaftercare.org/

more aftercare info

http://www.ntraaftercare.com/

[Introspect]

[QUOTE=lifesabreeze;6216402]
Your comment about charts show me just how far away from horseracing you are. You know very little and maybe someone else will take the time to teach you. Or you could do some research and teach yourself. A search on here will bring up quite a bit of knowledge. Or just start from page one on the racing forum and start reading.[/QUOTE]

You tell me and others that we don’t know the game and forward a bunch of links to studies, roundtable discussions and commissions that make suggestions- that’s what put us on the front page of the Sunday Times. Recommendations, policies with no teeth, and studies that just kick the can down the road. The thoroughbred industry’s slogan should be “let’s get ready to get ready”.

You still haven’t directly answered my questions. When has direct action specifically been taken that has made a profound difference toward the game’s integrity? If the best you can do is the NTRA Safety Accredidation, we’re all in trouble. I say “we” because I’ve watched from the backside for 12 years while very little gets done. My HBPA recommends more drugs and my track holds its hand out for its corporate welfare- slot money.

As far as the charts, my previous post was to contrast how the US handles chart calling versus other more squared away entities such as the HKJC and the JRA, where operations and methods are standardized and monitored for uniformity and accuracy, including the charts. Equibase, being owned and managed by the Jockey Club, is the industry historical database. The fact that their statistics can’t be quantified because their callers comment differently from track to track and there is sporadic follow up regarding why a horse was eased, etc, is another red herring that the status quo is broken.

By the way, how do you feel about George Strawbridge and Charlotte Weber? Do they not know what they’re talking about?
http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/strawbridge-weber-resign-toba-membership-in-protest-over-graded-stakes-medication-ban-delay/

[imissvixen]

First off the article said 24 deaths a week not a day…

Some of the posts here just confirm to me that the industry is inbred and in denial. If it weren’t so sad it would be funny. The fact that it doesn’t recognize the anger simmering among the general public and take action is also sad but laughable. Instead it sits around holding round tables handwringing as to what to do (can anyone say circle j…). And then the comment that this is some sort of liberal/conservative issue is really insulting. I can assure you that conservatives do not condone the wanton neglect and cruelty going on. We believe in life.

[Angelico]

[QUOTE=imissvixen;6216568]
First off the article said 24 deaths a week not a day…

Some of the posts here just confirm to me that the industry is inbred and in denial. If it weren’t so sad it would be funny. The fact that it doesn’t recognize the anger simmering among the general public and take action is also sad but laughable. Instead it sits around holding round tables handwringing as to what to do (can anyone say circle j…). And then the comment that this is some sort of liberal/conservative issue is really insulting. I can assure you that conservatives do not condone the wanton neglect and cruelty going on. We believe in life.[/QUOTE]

  I'm sorry that you have a bone to pick with politics, but this thread has nothing to do with conservatives vs. liberals, this thread is about racing being attacked by people who don't know what they are talking about. It is so obvious this writer doesn't have a clue, especially when he asks why on earth Martin got on a cheap horse the day before a big race. Everyone who is involved with racing knows that jockeys get on every mount they can to make a living. 

  How many people that hate racing so much have been involved recently with racing? Not, "well, I haven't been in it or followed it for a while, but I know everything there is". 

  I just got back from the training track this morning. The horses were immaculately groomed and cared for, in clean stalls, eating quality hay, and comfortable. 

  If other industries were held as accountable as racing, we'd be left alone, the extremists would be over in hunter/jumper land. Wouldn't it be interesting if their injury data was released? What is the penalty for drugging? Miss a show or two? 

But wait… What is the penalty in racing? Possibly losing your license, and probably losing all your owners.

  Find me one other discipline that is as publicly nitpicked as racing. We have to be more accountable than other disciplines. The difference is, we are happy to comply for the common good of the horses. Don't get me wrong, we have our bad apples, (aka Dutrow)... Come out to the backside and tell an average Joe trainer, or groom, or rider, that he doesn't care about his horses. Bring your running shoes...

[MiMoment]

I see more horses on a 4-H level treated horrifically than when I worked at bush league tracks…Oh for the ignorant people who cause large scale suffering in so many amateur venues…Race track people do not stay in business long w/o good horsemanship …Of course there is and will always be exceptions…Want to venture a guess on how many cutting futurity colts were canned yearly over the last 2 decades…? AQHA can be glad lip tatooes are not part of their world as most of the major trainers at every level would be getting unlisted numbers…Now that is a disposable breed and has been treated like one forever…Many other breeds too…TB’s are the minority for most accidents, neglect, and slaughter…

Jeanne

[sophie]

My question is, why isn’t there a ban on medicating racehorses before and during a race? Since so many injuries, both to horses and jockeys, seem to stem from running a sore/fragile horse on pain killers and performance enhancers?

I just don’t get it.

(flame suit on)

[jetsmom]

Most of those articles are just talk. They need to ban drugs…period. Lifetime ban for trainers and owners for 2nd offense. The regs have no teeth, and is easy to skirt around. Look at Dutrow and the number of offences it took to get even a suspension. And then the horses just get shuffled to an asst trainer that acts as trainer. Look at the “Business as usual thread”.

There is no reason for the disparity between US breakdowns and UK breakdowns, other than drugs. Yet the US just “talks” about banning them, does little testing, and has no enforcement/teeth in the regs.

Aftercare is just talk for the most part as well. The tracks don’t fund or underfund the programs. When the equivelant of 70% of the TB foal crop goes to slaughter afterwards, there is a problem. Back when I was a teen, and there weren’t the number of low level races, TB’s weren’t used up, and many went on to successful 2nd careers. Now the horses that come off the track are often injured, or have career limiting injuries,.

[Linny]

No one is giving painkillers strong enough to allow a truly injured horse to race. Yes, horses train on meds, but don’t race on them and the idea that horses are running on the such doses is inane. Enough pain meds to keep a fracture from hurting is going to make a horse unable to compete.

The racing industry, more than any other has risen to the challenge of everything from equine care and rehabilitation to aftercare and more. yYs, there are bad seeds, but it’s not like THAT is exclusive to racing. Unlike other organizations like the USEF, the Jockey Club has NO authority to license participants. That is handled by the states racing commissions. The USEF can ban someone from its competitions but the JC cannot. (Not that those ban mean much, hello? Paul Valliere?)

Because racing is the most high profile of “horse” sports, it is a lightning rod. I don’t see the NYT looking into the Tennessee Walkers or Saddlebred industries or the QH folks. (That might mean visiting a blue state or speaking with someone with a drawl.) I don’t see them asking bigshots in NY or DC why their wives and daughters seem to have a new fancy import every season and what happened to last year’s model? No one is ever asked how those tiny little social X-rays from the pages of Town and Country can manage such big and difficult animals.

[Introspect]

I don’t see the NYT looking into the Tennessee Walkers or Saddlebred industries or the QH folks.

The article thoroughly dealt with quarter horses in the southwest.

[SMF11]

[QUOTE=imissvixen;6216568]

Some of the posts here just confirm to me that the industry is inbred and in denial. [/QUOTE]

Exactly.

I am not in racing – I went to this thread to learn from those more experienced than I. It does your case no good to attack the writer or article without also DISPROVING its assertions. I have not seen anyone do that.

Yes, the TB industry seems to be improving, a little. But that does not mean it does not have a huge problem on its hands. I can’t support racing merely for the number of horses it uses up at such a young age. That there are 24 deaths a week is sickening.

[Drvmb1ggl3]

[QUOTE=SMF11;6217192]

Yes, the TB industry seems to be improving, a little. But that does not mean it does not have a huge problem on its hands. I can’t support racing merely for the number of horses it uses up at such a young age. That there are 24 deaths a week is sickening.[/QUOTE]

Don’t tell lies.
There are not 24 deaths a week in TB racing. The article included both QH and TB racing together.
It’s pretty easy to extrapolate backwards from the generally accepted fatality rate and the number of total starts per year to come up with a daily figure if you want to use the correct number.