Major article in NYT

[saratoga]

[QUOTE=Linny;6217168]

The racing industry, more than any other has risen to the challenge of everything from equine care and rehabilitation to aftercare and more. yYs, there are bad seeds, but it’s not like THAT is exclusive to racing. Unlike other organizations like the USEF, the Jockey Club has NO authority to license participants. That is handled by the states racing commissions. The USEF can ban someone from its competitions but the JC cannot. (Not that those ban mean much, hello? Paul Valliere?)

Because racing is the most high profile of “horse” sports, it is a lightning rod. I don’t see the NYT looking into the Tennessee Walkers or Saddlebred industries or the QH folks. (That might mean visiting a blue state or speaking with someone with a drawl.) I don’t see them asking bigshots in NY or DC why their wives and daughters seem to have a new fancy import every season and what happened to last year’s model? No one is ever asked how those tiny little social X-rays from the pages of Town and Country can manage such big and difficult animals.[/QUOTE]

I dont understand the logic in defending one horse sport by saying others are as bad or worse. Doesnt make sense to me.

I have a love/hate relationship with racing. I’ve been a hardcore fan for many years, grew up near Saratoga, have worked at tracks on and off back in the day. But I’ve seen so many horses, both in person and on TV, break down that I wonder why I still watch, if its some sick and perverse thing with me. I say its because I love Thoroughbreds and I have such a history with racing (like, I remember watching Unbridled win the Derby with my uncle who recently passed away…) and so many great memories, but I dont know…It seems like every other time I turn on TVG on a Saturday afternoon, I see a horse go down and i think, Wow, did I really just choose to watch a horse die right in front of me?? When you go to a hunter jumper show, the chances of seeing something like that are so very small, but I’m sure that every person who’s been to the track more than a handful of times has witnessed it. Seeing horses get injured and die is a horrible thing. Maybe not to some people, but to me, it is.

I think the NYT article was quite sensationally written- for example, the horse’s body wasnt just “thrown in the trash heap” or whatever- I mean obviously, when the horse breaks down, the body has to be put somewhere before it can be taken away…but I dont think most of it was untrue. I did find it surprising that they found vets to go on the record speaking negatively. Track vets make quite a bit of money…

I have to think that drugs are contributing to the problem and I do think that penalties should be enforced- it really is a joke now. I would also like to see more of the breeders and original owners and even original trainers, of the slaughter bound horses step up to the plate, because they have the money and facilities to provide for the horses, when a lot of the “smaller guys” who own the horses after they have trickled down, just don’t. But bottom line, I dont see how anyone who cares about horses can pretend that nothing is wrong here.

[jenm]

[QUOTE=lifesabreeze;6215747]
They are very interested in wanting the horses to be useful for more than racing and have been developing ways to make that happen.

Do some research on this forum and you will see a more truthful picture of the sport of horseracing.[/QUOTE]

I’m sorry, but using this forum as an example of a truthful picture of horse racing is laughable. Most people come to this forum because they care about horses. Do you think all owners/trainers of horses running the low level races care as much? Not likely. If the sport is to be improved, the outreach needs to go all the way down to the small venues running cheap claimers. Clean that up and I’ll be impressed.

Go read the Business As Usual at Penn National thread (also mentioned by jetsmom) and tell me how much people care.

Talk to Joe Shelton of TB Friends who does his best to rescue OTTBs off feedlots here in CA, then tell me how much people care.

I’m fortunate that the closest track to me is Golden Gate Fields, and I believe the owners and trainers there do care about their horses as long as they are with them. I don’t know the number of horses that move down to cheap claimers, but I do know many trainers work with CANTER and other groups to find new homes for their horses.

[QUOTE=lifesabreeze;6215939]
Here is a site for info on actual injuries at tracks.
http://www.jockeyclub.com/initiatives.asp[/QUOTE]

Participating in the injury reporting is voluntary. A quick glance shows that none of the four race tracks in Oklahoma participate.

@jetsmom;6216099

I enjoy a good horse race but to deny there are problems in the industry with drugging/running sore horses, etc, is to bury your head in the sand. Just look at the “Business as usual thread” and you’ll see the lack of enforcement/teeth in their regs.

I think people forget that even though they may be doing their part to help the industry, there are still too many people out there who just don’t care. The Biz as Usual thread is a great example.

[QUOTE=sophie;6217128]My question is, why isn’t there a ban on medicating racehorses before and during a race? Since so many injuries, both to horses and jockeys, seem to stem from running a sore/fragile horse on pain killers and performance enhancers?

I just don’t get it.

(flame suit on)[/QUOTE]

What’s worse is hearing about owners/trainers who do get caught yet continue to race. Sadly, even though such behavior is supposedly banned, people still get away with it

[danceronice]

[QUOTE=lifesabreeze;6216378]
There is quite a bit of untruth in that article,I am guessing you have limited knowledge of horseracing and the issues involved.

I too wish all the Sport Horses were competed without drugs. Racing is leading the pack with their testing and is trying to find more ways to give their rulings more teeth. It is not an easy endeavor, but at least they are trying.

This is a Sport Horse forum where many replace horses as they look for ones that can compete at the levels they wish to pursue.

The statistics are off in that article and they based them on faulty information.[/QUOTE]

Seriously. When you don’t have articles in major sport-horse publication arguing that they should loosen up the drug rules so they can dope horses with “safe” downers instead of whatever won’t test, when the sport-horse people hold THEMSELVES to the standards they demand of racing (keeping money-losing horses indefinitely even if “I want to show and I can’t afford two horses”, never even THINKING of giving this drug or that painkiller, not injecting joints for years to keep a horse working), they can point fingers.

[lifesabreeze]

I started in racing in the mid '70s. We have come along way since then. As you all are seeing now, all these issues are NOW front page of all national and regional trade mags.

An over sensationalized story like the one in the Times does not help us move forward at all. There was so much untruth in there that all of you, that have no knowledge of racing, are blinded to what really needs to be done.

It seems there is a large gap between those new and green to racing and those that have seen how far we have come.

I still have not seen anyone show where any other Sport Horse discipline has done even a small percentage as much as racing to better their own sport. Eventing has come close with talk of collapsable fences.

To all you ara types, I have no desire to get into a pet vs competition horse argument with you. I glaze over when all that ara bs comes pouring out. I just hear ducks quacking. This IS a Sport Horse forum.

[trafalgar]

Some of these threads are so absurd…it disresses me because it is a further illustration of how close minded people are so often when the truth conflicts with what they want to believe and how irrational and aggressive they are. No intelligent, interested party can disagree with the argument that the racing industry has some very serious problems and horses are often treated horribly. There are just as obviously many animals well cared for by people who care for them as well as care for the thoroughbred industry.

[Slewdledo]

We have been owners for 25 years. We have never lost a horse in training. We have lost a mare to colic and a foal to a respiratory condition - both on the farm.

We did have a horse injured in a race last summer. He finished the race (3rd, lost by a half-length), walked off the track and back to the barn. He was turned out for 6 months and is now back in training. If he tells us he can’t hack it, we won’t push him.

Our local track - known for being hard on horses - put in a small jogging track this year to offer horsemen and horses perhaps an easier surface to train on.

We are the norm, at least at the west coast tracks I have experience at.

[Angelico]

[QUOTE=trafalgar;6217735]
No intelligent, interested party can disagree with the argument that the racing industry has some very serious problems and horses are often treated horribly. There are just as obviously many animals well cared for by people who care for them as well as care for the thoroughbred industry.[/QUOTE]

  Often? More often than not they are treated like royalty. Go to the backside of any track, from bush, to Midwest, to east, to west, walk through every shedrow, look at the horses. Notice almost every horse is in good weight, in clean stalls, with well groomed coats and tails, stick your hand in their mouths, their teeth will be in good shape as well. The aisles in the barns will be swept and most tack and supplies will be in good order. 

  Do not attempt to blame our whole industry for the mistakes of a few bad apples. 

  Sh*+ happens in every industry. The difference is, we don't get to hide it, and I'd venture to say we wouldn't even if we could. That's how much we care about bettering the sport.

Oh and jenm, Remington Park is an OK track and they do participate in the injury reports. Right now they currently hav a 2.3% fatal breakdown rate.

[Drvmb1ggl3]

[QUOTE=Angelico;6217780]

Oh and jenm, Remington Park is an OK track and they do participate in the injury reports. Right now they currently hav a 2.3% fatal breakdown rate.[/QUOTE]

You mean 0.23%.
A rate of 2.3% would be 23/1000, which would be off the charts. Don’t mean to be pedantic, but thought it should be pointed out lest some clueless person(s) start misquoting that stat.

[Angelico]

[QUOTE=Drvmb1ggl3;6217832]
You mean 0.23%.
A rate of 2.3% would be 23/1000, which would be off the charts. Don’t mean to be pedantic, but thought it should be pointed out lest some clueless person(s) start misquoting that stat.[/QUOTE]

Ooops!!! I swear it was a typo… Thanks for pointing that out!

[Delaware_TB]

I never in a million years thought I would feel this way. I was bred into racing,and that’s all I knew for a long time. It killed me to leave it, but I knew decades ago, if I wanted any stability I needed to get a new career. It took 15 or so years to stop thinking of myself as a racehorse trainer. I even tried to go back to it part time. I just couldn’t get it out of my blood.
It’s gone now! My last race mare died 3 years ago at 28. I have 3 horse that live with me. I have the last horse I will ever breed ( 4 yr old), my retired broodmare, and a retired Zito mare that keeps me sane by carting me around out in the woods.
I would never want to get back into racing. The breed is all but ruined. The last rites were written once the old farms went under, and the sales began to drive breeding. Must have a fashonable horse that can work 1/8 in 10 or under. There is no consideration to future soundness.
Trainers are no longer horsemen. They are all business. My way or the highway(rendering plant). I grew up with trainers that didn’t have million dollar horses waiting in the wings. The trainers I knew worked with horses as individuals, and they got the most out of them that they could. Were these people always on the up and up? No. Did most of them end up as hunter/jumpers? Yes. (there were no warmbloods at the time)
I got into training for the love of the game and my love for horses. That’s why I had to get out. When I trained, money and owners were plentiful. But still, there was the pressure to get one more race out of the “sore” horse. Now, neither money nor owners are plentiful. The pressure must be enormous.
It really breaks my heart to see this. Are the recent breakdowns something new? No. Often times clusters of breakdowns can be attributed to the racing surface. But just look at the average starts per year. That tells it all. What will racing be like in 2020? Extinct!

[lifesabreeze]

[QUOTE=Delaware TB;6217915]
I never in a million years thought I would feel this way. I was bred into racing,and that’s all I knew for a long time. It killed me to leave it, but I knew decades ago, if I wanted any stability I needed to get a new career. It took 15 or so years to stop thinking of myself as a racehorse trainer. I even tried to go back to it part time. I just couldn’t get it out of my blood.
It’s gone now! My last race mare died 3 years ago at 28. I have 3 horse that live with me. I have the last horse I will ever breed ( 4 yr old), my retired broodmare, and a retired Zito mare that keeps me sane by carting me around out in the woods.
I would never want to get back into racing. The breed is all but ruined. The last rites were written once the old farms went under, and the sales began to drive breeding. Must have a fashonable horse that can work 1/8 in 10 or under. There is no consideration to future soundness.
Trainers are no longer horsemen. They are all business. My way or the highway(rendering plant). I grew up with trainers that didn’t have million dollar horses waiting in the wings. The trainers I knew worked with horses as individuals, and they got the most out of them that they could. Were these people always on the up and up? No. Did most of them end up as hunter/jumpers? Yes. (there were no warmbloods at the time)
I got into training for the love of the game and my love for horses. That’s why I had to get out. When I trained, money and owners were plentiful. But still, there was the pressure to get one more race out of the “sore” horse. Now, neither money nor owners are plentiful. The pressure must be enormous.
It really breaks my heart to see this. Are the recent breakdowns something new? No. Often times clusters of breakdowns can be attributed to the racing surface. But just look at the average starts per year. That tells it all. What will racing be like in 2020? Extinct![/QUOTE]

Sorry to hear you had to leave the track to make a decent living. I guess I always had good people around me because I was never asked to push any horse I trained or rode. I was for the most part at mid level to low end tracks and found the vast majority of trainers cared for and treated their horses very well.

I galloped at some high end tracks and found the same to be true. I don’t know where you raced,Delaware?, but sorry to hear you had bad apples around you.

[Calamber]

[QUOTE=jetsmom;6216345]
Then you need to come out here and encounter the people at Sunland Park and Hobbs, and Ruidoso.
I live 10 min from Sunland park and the numerous fatal breakdowns there are well known. As are the number of OTTB’s that go straight to the local kill pen at the Thurs night auction on the East side of town. They aren’t doing anything to look out for the horses. And drug testing/penalties are a joke.[/QUOTE]

And Mountaineer, and Charles Town, and Penn National, etc. It is a waste of breath though Jetsmom, some people just want to live and believe a lie, look at the US economy, how many people want to face that we are in an actual depression and that we are very serious trouble? I will say though, that any newspaper who has Alex Brown as an “expert” on racing, well enough said about that. This is just not worth the charade of a discussion really.

[lifesabreeze]

[QUOTE=Calamber;6217965]
And Mountaineer, and Charles Town, and Penn National, etc. It is a waste of breath though Jetsmom, some people just want to live and believe a lie, look at the US economy, how many people want to face that we are in an actual depression and that we are very serious trouble? I will say though, that any newspaper who has Alex Brown as an “expert” on racing, well enough said about that. This is just not worth the charade of a discussion really.[/QUOTE]

Maybe some of you should try and meet the good people in racing instead of judging us all by the bad apples you all seem to know. I raced many a time at Penn and yes there are some nasty people there but they have come a long ways from the horror it was in the '80’s.

The good people there have fought hard to change things and are slowly succeeding. If you have an instant solution I am sure they would love to hear it.

If you are just another ara with no real interest in helping racing,well then never mind.

[Delaware_TB]

[QUOTE=lifesabreeze;6217926]
Sorry to hear you had to leave the track to make a decent living. I guess I always had good people around me because I was never asked to push any horse I trained or rode. I was for the most part at mid level to low end tracks and found the vast majority of trainers cared for and treated their horses very well.

I galloped at some high end tracks and found the same to be true. I don’t know where you raced,Delaware?, but sorry to hear you had bad apples around you.[/QUOTE]

MOST of the trainers I worked for were FAIRLY good. I was never at the top echelon. But I did see some horrible things. I did learn one thing from looking down the shedrow. You can’t wet down the shedrow before you take the horse out for a race if you plan on taking a stripped extension cord to him. That’s why I got into training. I wanted to be all about the horse. Problem is the owners are all about the money.

[M.K.Smith]

I had seen the thread, but I was surprised to see that it was FRONT PAGE and main story on the NYT.

I don’t have enough knowledge of racing to speak with any degree of intelligence, but this certainly is bad press. Perhaps it was bad timing and very unusual, but it certainly does look terrible to have one day with so many deaths. Like any sport there are good eggs and bad eggs.

It is rare to see horses breakdown in many disciplines… when is a western pleasure horse or a halter or an under saddle show discipline ever pushed to the point of physical breakdown? It doesn’t happen often. But in extreme sports like endurance racing, combined driving, eventing, and racing the horses bodies are more likely to be pushed as far as they can go and there will be instances where it was too far.

I wish there would be a time when racehorses never ended up on “the truck” and breakdowns were very few and far between and horses needing rest or retirement/change of career got it. I also wish there were a cure for cancer, gas prices would be below $2.00, and all abuse of humans and animals would end. Would it be nice?? sure. Will it happen??? no. Is there room for improvement? probably

[lifesabreeze]

[QUOTE=M.K.Smith;6218013]
I had seen the thread, but I was surprised to see that it was FRONT PAGE and main story on the NYT.

I don’t have enough knowledge of racing to speak with any degree of intelligence, but this certainly is bad press. Perhaps it was bad timing and very unusual, but it certainly does look terrible to have one day with so many deaths. Like any sport there are good eggs and bad eggs.

It is rare to see horses breakdown in many disciplines… when is a western pleasure horse or a halter or an under saddle show discipline ever pushed to the point of physical breakdown? It doesn’t happen often. But in extreme sports like endurance racing, combined driving, eventing, and racing the horses bodies are more likely to be pushed as far as they can go and there will be instances where it was too far.

I wish there would be a time when racehorses never ended up on “the truck” and breakdowns were very few and far between and horses needing rest or retirement/change of career got it. I also wish there were a cure for cancer, gas prices would be below $2.00, and all abuse of humans and animals would end. Would it be nice?? sure. Will it happen??? no. Is there room for improvement? probably[/QUOTE]

They used data that was not breakdowns nor deaths. Please read the whole thread and try some of the links provided.

“The greatest number of incidents on a single day — 23 — occurred last year on the most celebrated day of racing in America, the running of the Kentucky Derby.”

This could be 20 cases of a horse being noted as bled. They could have thrown a shoe and stumbled and then were vanned off. The stats are misleading because they took them from a handicapping publication’s chart writer’s interpretation of why a horse was lame or vanned off.

[Real_Rush]

[QUOTE=Angelico;6215999]
You can’t be serious… What other industry has an aftercare program for its horses? What other industry has an alliance that helps injured riders? What other industry provides money/food/shelter for its blue collar workers (grooms, hot walkers, etc.)? What other industry has a scholarship program for the children of its blue collar workers? What other industry stimulates a fraction of the money and support for equine research (in all areas, medicine, footing, etc.)? What other industry has such rigid drug rules and penalties? What other industry is held as ACCOUNTABLE as the horse racing industry?

What in he!!fire has this industry done to deserve to be pillaged and burned by uneducated extremists?[/QUOTE]

^^^THIS! Especially the part about equine research. The racing industry has done for horses in general what NASA has done for people in general. (i.e.–velcro, memory foam, you name it) There is not a doubt in my mind that we would be years behind where we currently are in regards to diagnosing, treating, rehabilitating, supporting, etc, etc, were it not for the race industry.

[JackieBlue]

@lifesabreeze;6216402

Your comment about charts show me just how far away from horseracing you are. You know very little and maybe someone else will take the time to teach you. Or you could do some research and teach yourself. A search on here will bring up quite a bit of knowledge. Or just start from page one on the racing forum and start reading.

Admittedly I haven’t gotten through this whole thread yet and someone may have already mentioned this, but…

When you meet every person who has a different opinion than yours you immediately counter by telling them they know nothing, or they’re obviously not involved in racing or the facts aren’t really the facts, or…and it weakens your case. You’ve mentioned after care programs and blue collar worker programs and “what other industry has those”? I’ll ask you this - what other industry needs them? No sport is 100% pure. No sport involving animals is even close to 100% pure. But race horses have a useful life that is typically much shorter than horses involved in other “uses”. Thus, some sort of after care program is necessary in order to keep the landfills from overflowing.
I think we can all agree that any death or injury, human or horse is tragic. Why fight a move toward decreasing deaths and injuries? Can horse racing be made safer for humans and animals? Sure. But it’s not economical, so here we are.
Hopefully someone in the know can answer this question. When a horse suffers a traumatic (fatal or otherwise) breakdown on the track, is it’s blood tested for toxicology? If we’re going to point to drug use as a cause of increased breakdowns, wouldn’t it be helpful to know what’s in the systems of those that break down?

[Justa_Bob]

Augh!!! If the aftercare program really worked – there would not be thousands and thousands of TBs in auction lots! Go research the numerous of non-profits across the nation trying to clean up the mess of thousands of 3-6 yo TBs that do not have a place to go after racing.

Just search on this forum. Look at the COTHers who pulled together for the 29 yo mare and the 26 TBs in an auction. That was JUST IN ONE WEEK.

The reality is the aftercare is not a real safety net. No way no how. Just because it exists does not mean it is working or is effective!

[JackieBlue]

Many posters who are outraged by the NYT article have stated that the authors twisted the truth. Many have asserted that those who don’t know anything about racing aren’t entitled to an opinion. They should go educate themselves. I don’t know where I stand on this and in the end, it doesn’t really matter what I think. Here’s what does matter: The ignorant public, the ones reading the NYT and the ones watching in horror on Derby Day while sipping their internet-recipe mint juleps as Edgar Prado pulled up Barbaro…THEY are the majority. The few who know “how it really is” and laud the industry for the many positive changes will be washed away with the typhoon of public disapproval if some BIG, measurable changes are not implemented TODAY. :no: