Major article in NYT

[witherbee]

[QUOTE=CiegoStar;6216079]

How The Times Analyzed Data on Horse Injuries

To assess how often horses break down or get injured, The Times purchased official data covering more than 150,000 race results from 2009 through 2011. The data are compiled by trained “chart callers,” and used to compile result charts that bettors use to evaluate horses. The Times searched the data for terms indicating that a horse encountered a physical problem: broke down, vanned off, injured, lame, euthanized, died, collapsed, bleeding or went wrong.[/QUOTE]

This says they counted bleeding - that would cause a dramatic increase in numbers.

I think this is a sensationalized report and inaccurate/misleading as well.

[Laurierace]

[QUOTE=JackieBlue;6218502]
Many posters who are outraged by the NYT article have stated that the authors twisted the truth. Many have asserted that those who don’t know anything about racing aren’t entitled to an opinion. They should go educate themselves. I don’t know where I stand on this and in the end, it doesn’t really matter what I think. Here’s what does matter: The ignorant public, the ones reading the NYT and the ones watching in horror on Derby Day while sipping their internet-recipe mint juleps as Edgar Prado pulled up Barbaro…THEY are the majority. The few who know “how it really is” and laud the industry for the many positive changes will be washed away with the typhoon of public disapproval if some BIG, measurable changes are not implemented TODAY. :no:[/QUOTE]

Barbaro broke down in the Preakness so they were drinking Black Eyes Susans.

[JackieBlue]

@Laurierace;6218603

Barbaro broke down in the Preakness so they were drinking Black Eyes Susans.

Whoops! I’m still recovering from an exhausting weekend. My point simply being that since public perception is that the industry has not succeeded in policing itself, it may very well end up being policed by non-horsey legislators. :no:

[Laurierace]

I agree, am just a stickler for alcoholic accuracy!

[JackieBlue]

It’s gettin’ darn near 5 o’clock, ain’t it! :lol:

[Lizzie]

There is a follow up to the article in today’ NYT Editorials/Letters section. It sums it up accurately “…a culture of rampant cheating and feeble regulation, where injured and fragile horses are forced to run while drugged, to the great peril of both animals and jockeys”. “No single governing body or federal regulations control the industry’s drug practices, and existing punishments are lax.” "Not all owners and breeders are complicit; some are urging reform. Some support a federal bill to ban all racehorse doping. They note that the United States lags behind Asia, the Middle East and Europe in eliminating racetrack drugs. “…a powerful combination of money, secrecy and inattention has blocked progress and left the industry as compromised and dangerous as ever. This seems partly because of racetrack casinos, which have pumped new money into race stakes and added to the pressure to run unfit horses.” All this said, I’ve not seen any mention as to the welfare and safety of the jockey. Obviously there are owners/trainers that properly prepare and care for their horses, and their staff; these are good people. There are, sadly, bad people and desperate people who will run their horse at any cost - and if they lose the horse or jockey to injury or death, then so be it. This is the problem; the callous disregard for horse and human. This if the black eye for racing.

[Glimmerglass]

[QUOTE=Lizzie;6221162]
There is a follow up to the article in today’ NYT Editorials/Letters section.[/QUOTE]

The aforementioned New York Times Editorial (3/27) “Horses to the Slaughter”

Andrew Beyer has this counterpoint article with “Racing confronts another crisis”

However, almost all of the New Mexico horror stories cited by the Times occurred in Quarter Horse racing – a different sport, with a different breed, a different style of training, and a different ethic. If Thoroughbred racing is supposedly the Sport of Kings, Quarter Horse racing is the anything-goes sport of cowboys.

According to the Times’ own statistics, the seven U.S. tracks with the highest percentage of breakdowns or signs of injury were all ones that offer Quarter Horse racing – five of them in New Mexico, where supervision was notoriously lax. Yet the Times never drew a distinction between the two sports …

[Angelico]

What is this rampant “doping” problem? Define doping. Salix is about all I can come up with, and that is to help the horse, and it has no effect on soundness. You can give bute or banimine or dex X hours out, but all those are “safe” and in the amounts given they cannot mask a serious injury. Legend and Adequan, yeah, just like a show horse, a racer will have some wear and tear.

  I honestly think the biggest problem with racing's PR issues is the lack of understanding. People have no idea what Salix is for, they just hear the word "drug" and assume they know the whole story.

[QUOTE=Lizzie;6221162]
There is a follow up to the article in today’ NYT Editorials/Letters section. It sums it up accurately “…a culture of rampant cheating and feeble regulation, where injured and fragile horses are forced to run while drugged, to the great peril of both animals and jockeys”. “No single governing body or federal regulations control the industry’s drug practices, and existing punishments are lax.” "Not all owners and breeders are complicit; some are urging reform. Some support a federal bill to ban all racehorse doping. They note that the United States lags behind Asia, the Middle East and Europe in eliminating racetrack drugs. “…a powerful combination of money, secrecy and inattention has blocked progress and left the industry as compromised and dangerous as ever. This seems partly because of racetrack casinos, which have pumped new money into race stakes and added to the pressure to run unfit horses.” All this said, I’ve not seen any mention as to the welfare and safety of the jockey. Obviously there are owners/trainers that properly prepare and care for their horses, and their staff; these are good people. There are, sadly, bad people and desperate people who will run their horse at any cost - and if they lose the horse or jockey to injury or death, then so be it. This is the problem; the callous disregard for horse and human. This if the black eye for racing.[/QUOTE]

[JackieBlue]

@Angelico;6221443

What is this rampant “doping” problem? Define doping.

Definition for human athletes:
[LIST=1]

Doping is defined as the presence in the human body of substances which are prohibited according to the list published by the International Olympic Committee and/or the international organization of the member organization in question. The use of such substances, their presence in urine or blood samples, and the use of methods with the purpose of altering the result of an analysis of a urine or blood sample are prohibited.[/LIST]You can find plenty of questionable substances here (anabolics, "blood builders", stimulants, etc...):

http://www.horseprerace.com/

[Angelico]

Ever been up half the night waiting for a horse to “go” to get a darn urine sample? Haha… But really.

I know if the guys I worked for were to “dope” (thanks for the definition, JB) they’d be burned at the stake. Guess we can’t all be Dutrow… BTW kudos for convincing the public that we can get away with giving them steriods…

Is equipoise still legal? Are we considering it an anabolic, or a time bomb? Don’t use, never have, never worked for anyone that did, just heard about it. That is one thing I fully support banning, but I wouldn’t say it is a major problem, nor would it make a difference in the sport.

[QUOTE=JackieBlue;6221796]
Definition for human athletes:

[LIST=1]

Doping is defined as the presence in the human body of substances which are prohibited according to the list published by the International Olympic Committee and/or the international organization of the member organization in question. The use of such substances, their presence in urine or blood samples, and the use of methods with the purpose of altering the result of an analysis of a urine or blood sample are prohibited.[/LIST] You can plenty of questionable substances here (anabolics, "blood builders", stimulants, etc...):

http://www.horseprerace.com/[/QUOTE]

[Laurierace]

One of the biggest problems with racing is there are different rules for different jurisdictions. There are plenty of places where equipoise is still allowed. Even stuff that is allowed everywhere like bute is allowed at significantly different levels in different states.

[SMF11]

[QUOTE=Angelico;6221443]

  I honestly think the biggest problem with racing's PR issues is the lack of understanding. [/QUOTE]

No, the biggest problem with racing PR issues is the carnage (horse deaths, jockey deaths & injuries, other breakdowns).

That’s the bottom line.

[caffeinated]

@Angelico;6221443

What is this rampant “doping” problem? Define doping. Salix is about all I can come up with, and that is to help the horse, and it has no effect on soundness. You can give bute or banimine or dex X hours out, but all those are “safe” and in the amounts given they cannot mask a serious injury. Legend and Adequan, yeah, just like a show horse, a racer will have some wear and tear.
.

Well… bute and banamine can mask more than a lot of us might think. Especially since it needn’t be a “major” injury that causes a breakdown - it might be some microtears and such that had only manifested as “soreness” up until that point. At the last safety and welfare summit one of the presentations was on pre existing injuries and risk factors for catastrophic breakdowns, and much of what they found probably could have/would have been treated with bute or banamine. (it was part of Dr. Stover’s presentation on injuries and surfaces, you can see her powerpoint presentation or watch the video of the panel, where she explains that stuff in far better depth here.)

I think the biggest issue in the article is equating the above with outright illegal drugging by referring to it as doping. But in the end, it can be dangerous to horses too, even if not exactly “performance enhancing” to the same degree as something like EPO.

I also have a big issue with prevalence of joint injections, as far as masking issues that horses should be rested or retired for. Now seen a few too many young horses who turn out to have limited or no options for a future career of any sort due to excessive joint injections at the track - they looked sound as a dollar the day they stopped racing but a month or two later… yuck. And I think that these can also mask pain to the point where a horse runs all out on compromised joints, so can also add to the breakdown problem. Using them therapeutically along with rest and time off and careful work for a while doesn’t seem to be the MO at the track from what I’ve seen. But I may be getting an incomplete picture, who knows. I remember one lovely 3 YO who shipped up from training and arrived at the track lame. Dx? THREE chips in one knee. Trainer had it injected a few times to see if they could get him to the races, raced him three times, didn’t work too well and now the horse is likely completely useless for anything and lucky he didn’t break down during a race. And for sure that’s not an isolated case…

Legal/“therapeutic” does not mean these things are without problems, or that these things are always in the best interest of the horses involved.

As usual, though, it would come down to uniform standard of rules about race day meds and such… and it boggles my mind that most of the racing industry seems to think that’s a good idea but for some reason it hasn’t been done.

[caffeinated]

@Laurierace;6221890

There are plenty of places where equipoise is still allowed.

And plenty of places where it is not allowed, but they don’t test for it.

Also had trainers brag about how “ready” a horse is for the races and tell me flat out that they gave a horse x amount of equipoise in the process, and are shipping that horse to a track I know “does not allow” equipoise that very evening (but per the person at the track I talked to about it, they don’t test for it, so that’s a rule with some teeth!).

[Jleegriffith]

[quote=Linny;6217168]
No one is giving painkillers strong enough to allow a truly injured horse to race. Yes, horses train on meds, but don’t race on them and the idea that horses are running on the such doses is inane. Enough pain meds to keep a fracture from hurting is going to make a horse unable to compete.quote]

Linny, actually the blocking, injecting and tapping can mask quite a bit of pain so that horse can run. You can’t regulate these things and it is what destroys the horses. I see horses that raced but the next day they can barely walk out of the stall. Or horses that look sound but several months later the joints are so ruined the horse has no chance of a 2nd career. It’s no fun euthanizing 3/4yrs that had a chip but the trainer just kept racing it and the whole joint gets destroyed. What future does that horse have?

There are so many good people who truly care and stop the horses before it comes to the point of needing to block/tap/inject but those who don’t give the industry the bad name.

[marginall]

To paraphrase the great Artie Lange, horse racing is about degenerate gamblers who gamble away their children’s college funds for a gambling high. Degenerate gamblers don’t give a &$% about horses or jockeys.

Don’t kid yourselves, at the end of the day horse racing only exists for your average loser gambler who can’t afford to lose money and certainly doesn’t care about horse welfare.

And to those who praise the industry for the post-career care of horses, you breed horses, race them and when they’re no longer making you money you “retire” them. If any race horse gets any kind of chance of a humane life afterwards it’s the least you can do. They didn’t ask to be brought into the world. You don’t get a high five for doing what you should be doing.

[Real_Rush]

[QUOTE=marginall;6222253]

And to those who praise the industry for the post-career care of horses, you breed horses, race them and when they’re no longer making you money you “retire” them. If any race horse gets any kind of chance of a humane life afterwards it’s the least you can do. They didn’t ask to be brought into the world. You don’t get a high five for doing what you should be doing.[/QUOTE]

You can’t use a blanket statement like that for every person involved in racing. In point of fact, I have a very good friend who breeds, raises and races thoroughbreds. None of her horses even start training until they’re 3 years old, period. She doesn’t allow her horses to be run into the ground. If they’re not doing good, or not even going to make it to begin with, she pulls them out of training. When a horse’s career is done, she either brings them home to use in her own breeding program, sells them to someone else who wants to use them for breeding, or does her best to find suitable riding homes. In the meantime, each and every one of them has a home with her.

She had one (now 5 yrs old) mare that was born horribly windswept. They tried everything to help straighten her legs out, up to and including surgery, but to no avail. Did she carelessley send the mare off to the track anyway? No, she knew that that leg was a catastophic injury just waiting to happen. Did she send her to slaughter? No, she found her an excellent home with a lady who adores the mare and trail rides on her. Not everyone in the racing industry is bad or degenerate. Unfortunately, it’s the “bad” people who get in the news, and this goes for anything in society. What story leads on the evening news? The latest shooting, murder, police chase, accident, or what stupid celebs are doing. So to take what leads the stories about the racing industry to form an overall opinion about it is pretty dumb, and completely unfair.

[marginall]

realrush89, you just proved my point. your friend does what she’s supposed to do!!! like that chris rock joke, “I take care of my kids.” you’re supposed to take care of your kids!! you don’t get props for doing what you’re supposed to do.

[Real_Rush]

[QUOTE=marginall;6222495]
realrush89, you just proved my point. your friend does what she’s supposed to do!!! like that chris rock joke, “I take care of my kids.” you’re supposed to take care of your kids!! you don’t get props for doing what you’re supposed to do. [/QUOTE]

Well, it came across to me (and still does) like you’re “preaching” about how crappy people are who breed and race thoroughbreds. Maybe it’s just the way you have it worded. And I (and I’m sure many others who may not want to chime in) don’t appreciate you calling everyone associated with racing degenerate.

[marginall]

breeders, jockeys, etc might not be degereate gamblers but your industry exists, depends on and thrives on degenerate gamblers. you can’t argue that.