Make Me Feel Better

[IdahoRider]

So I have had a string of physical issues going back 3-4 months. I was in a car wreck in late December that took me out for several days. In January I had COVID and that really took me out. Then in February I had the wreck on the horse and ended up in the hospital.

All these instances caused pain issues/illness/whatever. And my young German Shepherd Dog (age 10 months to 13 months during the time frame I was out for the count) was put on the back burner. My husband is not a dog person and he was not able to keep up my dog’s training.

I have taken the training aspect seriously. I want to compete in Rally and tracking. I have trained this dog since he was 10 weeks old.

Yesterday I meet up with a friend who had titled many dogs in rally, obedience, herding. She is very good and knows the breed and is comfortable with them

I was so looking forward to getting started on our road to a novice rally title. I drove an hour to her house, with a hungry dog, food rewards that he has always worked hard for. And he was an absolute butt head. We decided to put a prong collar on him and he got loose after throwing himself down and rolling like an alligator. We spent 20 minutes trying to get him to come to us. We finally got him by opening my car door and letting him in. Then we were able to put the prong on. It was better, but he acted like he know nothing.

The friend called me this afternoon and told me that we need to bring a second friend in who also trains her GSD in rally and other areas of competition. The idea is that we need more heads working with him. The fear is that in my state (healing broken ribs and a pulled rotater
cuff ) he might hurt me by accident. My friend told me he is a typical adolescent GSD and nothing abnormal.

Now here is where I need to feel better: I purposefully purchased this dog knowing he was going to need committed training. And I did that. And then I dropped the ball. And he is acting like a feral dog when it comes to training.

Tell me we can get back on the road. I had hoped to start competing him this summer. And he can’t even sit on command in stimulating environments. So I need to reset my entire blueprint for him because I failed him.
Sheilah

[NancyM]

Your goals are different from your dog’s goals. You dog just wants to be a dog, and have a human for a friend. Nothing else. Well, maybe a good supply of treats, pats, and attention from you. When the two of you have that, the training comes easy, and is fun for everyone. Don’t forget the “fun” part, it’s the most important part. For both of you. If it’s not fun, take a step back from the training, and expect less. Just enjoy the dog. I dunno if this is what you wanted to hear to make you feel better. But if the dog feels better, you will likely feel better too…
I dunno what a “prong collar” is, but it doesn’t sound fun.

[Simkie]

The beautiful thing about dogs is there is always time to begin again. It does sound like you went into the deep end here–back up and treat this guy like the baby dog he is. Small steps, keep it positive, and don’t over face him. He’s telling you quite clearly that he’s not ready for a marathon training session away from home. He probably doesn’t need a prong collar…just a better foundation.

[IdahoRider]

We are backing up and revisiting his foundation. He is still very much a baby. I should have been prepared for a brain drain. Add to that the adolescent attitude and he is a walking disaster.

We will see how it goes next week. I have some ideas about collars and rewarding him for the behavior I want.
Sheilah

[phantomhorse]

@IdahoRider

Now here is where I need to feel better: I purposefully purchased this dog knowing he was going to need committed training. And I did that. And then I dropped the ball.

You did not drop the ball. I am quite sure you did not plan to be in a car wreck or have COVID or wind up in the hospital!

The good news is now you are able to get back to working with him and sounds like you have friends who are able to support you. Take a deep breath and formulate a plan, which your dog will gleefully ruin and you will have to work with the dog you have that day.

[Alex_and_Bodie_s_Mom]

You didn’t fail your dog. He’s a teenager who has been on vacation for a few months. You’re a teacher, right? Remember how hard those first weeks back are at the start of every fall?

To me, this would be like starting a 3-year old lightly under saddle, then coming back to them as a 4-year old to really start the serious work. You wouldn’t expect them to remember canter cues right off the bat. You’d go back to the basics for a bit - standing at the mounting block, reminding them of seat and leg aids, etc. Maybe even put them on the lunge line for a few days to remind them of the voice commands. But you won’t get a perfect ride that first time out, for sure. We’re happy if we have a relaxed youngster who can walk and trot without tripping over his own feet!

Remember, the rally timetable is yours, not your dog’s. Right now, he needs to remember everything he learned before you got sick and injured. He’s no doubt smart enough that with a little time and effort, you won’t be too far behind.

[BrendaJane]

you did not drop the ball, it was dropped on you!

Things will work out! Baby steps and deep (yeah, I know!) breaths!

Have a god cry about the Butthead. and forge on! Your experienced friend says it is normal. Teenage dog I guess. 9and there, I thought GSDs were easy to train…)

[BrendaJane]

@NancyM

I dunno what a “prong collar” is, but it doesn’t sound fun.

it is a metal chain collar with prongs it looks horrible but I read about a research project on dead dogs that they do less damage than a choke collar. The research subjects were police dogs of some shape.
They create pressure points vs closing up the neck.
Somebody had referred to them as ‘power stirring’ for dogs. not all of course.
Definitely something to consider whike rehabbing a busted body while dealing with a strong dog!

[millerra]

Breathe - you didn’t ruin him.

If he was a baby horse, you’d shrug, start from the basics again and expect him to be a bit of a wild child until he got back into the grove. It’s 4 months of sitting on the back burner and being able to do what ever he wants. Patience for yourself and your pup.

Hope you continue to heal - you’ve had a really bad stretch - but it will end up all right.

[jherold]

A prong collar is a tool, much like a lip chain or chain over the nose for a horse. Ideally, you don’t use it forever, but for big dogs with high drive, it can be a life saver for both the dog and handler. The prongs are blunt and you use a pop and release so there isn’t constant pressure.

[jherold]

I hope this jpeg comes through!

[IdahoRider]

@BrendaJane

Somebody had referred to them as ‘power stirring’ for dogs. not all of course.
Definitely something to consider whike rehabbing a busted body while dealing with a strong dog!

That is correct. It does provide power steering and I wouldn’t be able to get him out of the house and work with him without it. He is huge for his age and very, very strong and would have me flat on my busted ribs in a heartbeat with his flat collar.

I think I wasn’t expecting how much remediation he would need coming back. Last night he went out to potty for the last time. He has been trained to sit a few feet back from the slider into our bedroom so our 13 year old Aussie can come in (she is not as steady on her feet as she used to be). My husband tells Andy “place” and points to the water bucket which is the target for his place command. Andy scoots back and maintains the sit. Brad tells his to “wait” and then opens the screen for Addie to come in. Andy jumps up, charges forward and tries to push his way in. Brad blocks him. Addie gets in, but needed help up the step. Andy charged forward again and evaded Brad.

We insisted that he go back out and do the routine that he has known how to follow since he was ten weeks old. It was like trying to capture a feral dog. he ran through the house, tail up and wagging. This was fun. We shut the bedroom door on him and suddenly it was less fun. He headed for his crate and we literally had to pull him out and send him outside again to run through the routine.

He is the big, strong and stubborn dog that is really testing even things that he has been doing most of his life.

I have been working on his “touch” command in order for him to get over his refusal to let anyone put a collar on. Even his flat collar is a big, fat no from him. He is making me a better trainer, that is for sure.
Sheilah

[IdahoRider]

The jpeg did come through and it is soooo truthful!
Sheilah

[IdahoRider]

@BrendaJane

it is a metal chain collar with prongs it looks horrible but I read about a research project on dead dogs that they do less damage than a choke collar.

If it is properly fitted, it is easier on the dog than a flat collar that they can just pull against. I will use a slip collar, too, if I need it. But I wouldn’t use it on a green dog that doesn’t know anything. A trained dog that needs a good leash correction? Oh, yes. I will and do.
Sheilah

[IdahoRider]

@BrendaJane

I thought GSDs were easy to train…)

Super easy to train. But they do go through these periods in adolescence where their #1 job is to see how much they can get by with. Unfortunately for me, Andy started this butthead stage while I was out of it because of the car wreck and COVID. And now I am recovering from broken ribs, which are on my left side. Andy is on my left side. He pulls and my ribs howl.

But before my issues? Oh my gosh! he was spectacular.
Sheilah

[BrendaJane]

he’ll get there again!
Like all kids, he smells the blood in the water.
Baby Shark duh duh duh…

[jherold]

I assume he’s still intact, so you are also dealing with his hormones… (Not recommending neutering, just a reminder).

[S1969]

@IdahoRider

But before my issues? Oh my gosh! he was spectacular.

This is probably true but also curious if he was spectacular in other places, or just at home?

Because you know that training at home is one thing, and training elsewhere is another thing.

Yes, he’s in the “you ain’t the boss of me” stage, too.

I’d just back up to puppy training goals, and just move through them again. It will go fast. Be very specific and expect high quality work. That will also reestablish the “rules” of this game. I would also proof these basic steps at home and elsewhere before moving on in training.

Also, nothing wrong with a prong collar or a choke collar, if used correctly. The trainer I worked with found they actually worked more quickly than a flat collar if corrections were done properly. The dog can feel the difference better versus leaning on the flat collar.

[IdahoRider]

@S1969

This is probably true but also curious if he was spectacular in other places, or just at home?

Spectacular everywhere. He could hold a down stay with decent eye contact at the bench outside the bank. He could take his mat to the park and send him to his “place” from 20 feet away and he would go, turn on the mat to face me and sit. His recall was impressive.

I have put a ton of time and effort into him. I was just surprised at how much of an idiot butt head he was. Like he was flipping us off AND saying we weren’t the boss of him. He was so over stimulated that he just lost his ever loving mind.

Yes, he is intact.
Sheilah

[Raincityrider]

You sound to me like an ideal GSD owner- thoughtful, involved and willing to put in the time training your dog. Juvenile GSD’s are challenging and I could have written your post myself. My working line GSD, also an intact male, just turned one earlier this month. I chose his lines for temperament and trainability and have had plenty of time to work consistently with him. Up until a few months ago he was a star pupil. An experienced trainer suggested he would make a terrific service dog as he was so calm and focused for his age. Ahhh, memories…

Currently, he is behaving like a drunk gorilla with a hearing problem in every session and I can’t help feeling like I’ve somehow completely ruined him. He has become pretty unreliable on prior training and all we seem to focus on is increasing his now millisecond attention span and teaching him to be calm. I have gone through this stage with previous dogs but not to this degree. I’m trying to maintain a sense of humor and introduce exercises like beginning nose work and trick training to keep him engaged. Sessions are short so we will be more likely to succeed and always end on something he likes and does well.

Eventually, they exit the adolescent horror stage where they are running around in a adult sized body with hormones galore juicing up their still puppy brains and you get your more focused partner back. I have a friend, who is also a long time owner of working line GSD’s, point out that one of her current dogs is two and just now beginning to truly mentally mature. I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry at that reminder.

I would just try to make every session a positive experience for both of you and don’t stress thinking you are behind schedule. These dogs take a long time to develop but they are so intelligent and generally want to work so it’s worth the wait. With consistent handling you will still come out ahead.

Also you might want to look at the Herm Sprenger Neck tech collar if a straight prong dead-ringed is too much pressure for your dog. I find it gives me enough control over my dog without being as severe which helps him stay more relaxed. It also seems to stay on a lot better than a regular prong although I still backstop it with a leather cord to his flat collar. Just a thought…