So, I’m going to disagree here. You are assuming that there was a “profound” lameness. But, IME (as someone who does layups/rehab professionally) is that there can be greatly varying degrees of lameness with a puncture wound like this. I rehabbed one case where a horse had a several inch long nail that punctured the frog and was only very mildly sore. (On the flip side, I also have seen horses that were three legged lame after a hot nail from a bad shoeing job.) I’m just pointing out that it may not be accurate to assume that the horse was three-legged lame.
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so were did the horsey get injured ?
it was under the care of BO and never left the place …horse got there with clean bill of heath and the injury was not self inflected
OP really needs to talk with an attorney as they are out over $10k plus lose of use
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Using this theory (the horse was under the care of the BO and it never left the property), any time a horse gets a cut or scrape at a boarding barn it should be the responsibility of the barn to pay for the vet bill, which we all know is not the case.
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I concur in your last sentence. We part company, I fear, on our view of the duty to examine a lameness.
I have one mare who is chronically lame due to a serious hock deterioration on the left. I see her daily and I don’t examine her daily but that’s because I owned her for several years and know how she moves regularly. If I were to see a change in that known lameness, or if I saw a new lameness, I would investigate. When we boarded horses I made it a point to eyeball every horse at least once per day (even those in the remote pasture). That, IMO, would be part and parcel of the standard of care expected in ANY boarding situation. Only if the boarding contract expressly excluded such a duty could I even consider giving the BO and/or staff a “pass” on this.
The OP in her first paragraph says she immediately noticed the horse limping, checked it, and found a 3" bolt had gone through the sole, and immediately called the vet. I’ve got some of the most stoic horses on Earth and the most stoic of them would be limping badly with a three inch bolt in the sole. I cannot believe that a conscientious equine husbandry-man of any stripe would not see the difference that would make in gait.
If she has accurately noted the comments of the vet. then that make her case stronger with me.
But whatever is said here is just so many inconvenienced electrons. She needs to talk to a local attorney for advice.
G.
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A friend sued for injury to horse while farm equipment was in the paddock. I think she won. But many barns in the area did not have room for her after that. She needed to move and took her hunter to a dressage barn that would take her - so you really need to decide how much it’s worth to you to sue - and what resources you have to accomplish this.
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using your explanation having junk scattered about is reasonable care, which might be the case but I would not expect such to be acceptable to the fictional reasonable man
a fictional person with an ordinary degree of reason, prudence, care, foresight, or intelligence whose conduct, conclusion, or expectation in relation to a particular circumstance or fact is used as an objective standard by which to measure or determine something (as the existence of negligence)
Honestly no one can predict how this would play out until it went to court. Much would depend on local laws, on the energy of the lawyers for both sides, on the amount of cash the OP is willing to dump into the game, and of course what the BM has to say on their side, which may not be exactly what the OP has said.
Lawyers fees add up fast. Expect a basic retainer of several thousand dollars. It is quite possible that the OP could spend $10,O00 or $20,000 on the lawyer and still lose the case.
Yes based on OPs story here the BM seems careless in checking the horses. Whether that will however add up to a ruling of liability by a judge in a lawsuit is another matter.
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Junk scattered about is not what I would consider reasonable care either.
One screw is not junk scattered about.
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Playing Devil’s Advocate… As any good defense attorney would.
You say barn staff led your horse through an area with farm implements. How do you know? You obviously were not there.
Your horse was septic? A septic horse would likely be off it’s feed, lethargic, feverish… any even slightly horse experienced person, regardless of common sense, would notice and report that.
You didn’t move immediately? If you REALLY thought there was incompetence and neglect, which would ultimately be the basis for a CC&C claim, you would have moved immediately.
Unfortunately, I think the insurance company is going to laugh at you. You can try to hire an attorney and sue, but that will just compound to your already steep vet and rehab bills.
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Turning a horse out with machinery: Gross Negligence
leading a horse through an area where machinery is parked: Not.
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So it sounds like you have a first hand witness to this occurrence. If so, I’d be asking why this individual didn’t inform you earlier so the horse could get immediate care.
I would have moved my horse ASAP rather than wait 6 months to give notice. No point in waiting to put a horse in a situation that offers better care.
If the horse had 24 hours to live, that is a pretty dire statement. All the more reason not to stay an additional 6 months
If the farm was dealing with imports inappropriately and that resulted in 6K in unnecessary bills, it is hard to make a case to stay after the quarantine on the barn was lifted.
I realize the above sounds harsh and one-sided, but OP, you’ll get that and a lot more if lawyers get involved.
Six months is a long time to wait to take action. If you involve lawyers there is probably zero possibility of leaving on “good terms”. That isn’t to say you should or shouldn’t involve a lawyer, depending on the facts, it is just to say the two aren’t going to reconcile.
Maybe I’m jaded. Maybe this is a troll. But I cannot imagine keeping a horse in the above described situation for six months.
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Having spent 10 years as a Claims Attorney and Regional V.P. for Claims I can assure you that no insurance company ever laughs at a claim (at least not publicly). To do so would likely mean a visit from the state Insurance Commissioner (or one of his staff).
But, again, this is just so much hot air. The OP has to consult a real, practicing attorney for advice.
G.
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Bingo.
How can varying degrees of lameness be succinctly described? Gimpy vs very lame? The honest answer is that it is in the eye of the beholder. Various and sundry beholders have different standards, different backgrounds as their frame of reference, even different expectations of an individual horse, as the BO answered to the horse owner.
If the owner does take action against this BO, every board barn is going to be concerned about the expectations of this horse owner, and if those expectations are reasonable or not in their eyes. Horses have expensive things go wrong with them. It’s going to happen in any group of horses, and it’s part of BO/BM life. If the BO/BM were always responsible, there would be no board barns.
Right.
And this is about far more than just money - and time. As illustrated by the quoted post above, there will be other consequences and repercussions, regardless of the outcome of the action. Is it really worth the uncertainty?
In the U.S. there tends to be an idea that “going to court” or “suing” is a path to justice for a perceived wrong. It isn’t. Pursue the legal route for any other good reason, but not with the idea of getting justice for a wrong. It doesn’t work that way.
No one, not even me, suggests that the BO is ALWAYS responsible for an injury. That would be ludicrous.
The BO, however, IS always responsible to look around them and see what they see. And take action based upon what they see. In this case what they saw was a horse with a THREE INCH BOLT embedded in the sole of a foot. That is going to make DIFFERENCE in how a horse moves. IMO a reasonable BO should notice that DIFFERENCE. This BO did not, nor did any of their employees. But the OWNER did immediately upon seeing the horse. That failure to use due care in observing this horse is, IMO, actionable in either Tort or Contract.
G.
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I agree it sounds like it should be. Doesn’t mean the OP will win the case. I hope OP has very good photos of the foot with the bolt and the x-rays and the follow-up care because otherwise the BO will just say “that’s not what happened.” My points that even if there is a reasonable case at the outset you can still lose the case. Law suits are always a gamble. OP should be guided by a lawyer.
From the way OP stated the question it sounded like they thought you could just file a claim with the BOs insurance company like you would with your own car or health or home owner’s insurance. But in those cases you are filing with your own insurance company.
Not how it works when you want the other party’s insurance to cover you.
Would be interesting to hear back from OP especially if they have contacted a lawyer because this is a very interesting topic for all of us.
It’s also true that a very serious letter from a lawyer might extort some cash with the mere threat of a lawsuit. But if the BO holds out that’s just legal fees down the drain.
And OP and BO will be sworn enemies forever. You can’t do this and remain on friendly terms. And yes whole horse community will know within 48 hours.
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@Guilherme, I dunno, even if the courts were to side with the OP, I think she might have difficulty collecting a judgement so far in excess of the value of the horse, and also I think she might be unlikely to come out ahead in the end after she pays attorneys’ fees and court costs. I agree with other people that this could damage her place in the horse community.
To continue the conversation on the OP’s situation, I do layups professionally, and many times I have had horses come into my care from outside facilities where serious illnesses or injuries were only picked up on after significant delays. I’m not talking about backyard barns, I’m talking about excellent, well reputed, well staffed, high-end facilities where employees were checking on the horses pretty closely. Here’s why: Horses are prey animals and when they are sick or injured their survival instincts tell them to act normal and blend in with the herd. Even a three-legged lame or seriously injured horse might stand “contentedly” with its pasture mates out in the field, or be waiting at its feed tub in the am and not walk off until after the person feeding them walked away. I could recount many circumstances where horses were reportedly acting very normally up until a serious, life threatening problem was discovered.
Many farms, even very lovely, well run farms, rely on lower wage, often Spanish speaking workers with no formal education in horse care who might not have the training or ability to notice smaller signs of serious problems–like a slight change in posture or a horse laying down more than it should. Also, to be blunt, most horse farm employees are not lameness experts. if an older horse is normally gimpy, if it is a little more lame one day an employee might or might not notice or say anything. Or they might closely check the leg and not see any injury not even think to pick up the foot.
Also, the definition of “full care boarding” is extremely variable. Many “full care” boarding situations are not designed for absentee owners. Many owners of “full care” boarded horses are still expected to come out and check on the horse to provide grooming, hoof picking, and are also expected to manage farrier and vet care. At those places, there is often not a clear line between what the BO is expected to notice vs. the owner.
On another vein, I strongly believe that if the OP genuinely felt that this barn was negligent she would have moved right away. People move sick or injured horses all the time, ESPECIALLY if they do not have confidence in the care their horses are receiving. No reasonable person would have their horse recover from a serious injury at a barn where the staff blatantly saw and ignored a three-legged lame horse.
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Love reading all the legal posts :yes:
Two points: OP did say she wants to move before making the claim, which negates the whole “good luck finding another place to board afterward” theme I’m seeing. Secondly, I also agree that caring for the horse in a stall (and probably also some time at a vet clinic?) is significantly different than daily handling with turn in/out, and OP can easily dismiss the claim that she feels the place was safe if she stayed, plus none of us know if she hasn’t changed her routine wrt this barn and is now coming out daily since relying on the BO or employees to notice a three-inch bolt in her horse’s foot is obviously a bad idea.
C’mon now.
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If it was not noticed, then there is no way of knowing when the horse picked up the bolt, or where. As someone else pointed out, bolts get jounced loose while machinery is operating, not while it is parked. A puncture wound on the foot and exposure to bacteria in the ground and stall will become infected pretty quickly.
As others have pointed out, if the horse is regularly lame (ish?) then maybe the horse looked normal to staff. If the horse was in the stall quietly eating hay, or turned out in a pasture, how would the barn owner even know the horse was more lame? You’ve been there a while, you are just fine with the competency of the staff and the supervision by the barn owner, or you would have left long ago.
Finally, what does your boarding contract say? I have seen contracts where the owner/manager/staff is not responsible for guaranteeing a horse is free from injuries or illnesses, and it is the horse owners’ responsibility to check the horse’s health on a regular basis.
And you do need to see if the barn owner’s insurance will cover this situation. General liability probably does not, there may be additional types of insurance, which the barn owner may or may not have purchased, which would cover this situation.
Sorry for your misfortune, and good luck.
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I don’t think anyone is arguing this. However, I doubt that you are promising the outcome will be in favor of the OP.
The question is whether it is wise to pursue it legally, given the costs and uncertainties involved. What would you advise about that aspect? If it were your horse, your situation, would you? Honest question, curious about the answer.
I can’t give a very specific answer as I don’t know the specific jurisdiction, location, law, personalities, or any other truly important details. The amount of money involved justifies a talk with a local attorney who CAN answer these and other questions as well. So the OP should make that call and get advice from a local professional.
G.
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