How does one go about making a claim against a barn owner’s CC&C? I have a situation where my horse (in full care) was turned out by barn staff, and was walked through an area where tractor implements, etc had been parked. She stepped on a bolt that went up through her sole. The barn staff nor the barn owner (who visits daily) noticed it, even though it was 3" long and the horse was limping. When I came out later that week, I immediately noticed the horse was lame and looked at her feet, saw the bolt head and called the vet. She was septic at that point and required almost 6 months of treatment, including rads, expensive antibiotics, maggot therapy, specialized shoeing, etc. to a cost of almost $10K.
I brought it up to the barn owner who basically said she can’t be responsible for seeing every thing that falls off a tractor and that because the horse is older and has Cushings, she thought she was just gimpy. The vet was horrified and said that one more day of putrification and the horse would probably have died.
I am moving my horses soon and want to leave on good terms (gave 30 days notice, will leave things clean and neat) but the cost of this negligence is eating at me. Should I just eat the cost or how do I approach the subject again? Or should I just turn it over to my attorney and let him send a demand letter?
I should add that we also had strangles come through the barn due to lack of biosecurity and an unquarantined import coming in when we first moved in, and spent $6K getting our horses through that. I feel like there are definitely some gaps in the day to day care and management here.
In your shoes I would write everything down, including your information sources, their names and the dates that you talked to them. Even if you don’t take it to an attorney, just to have all the facts in order and not subject to memory. That might be enough for you to let it go.
If it’s not, then you need to talk to your attorney. Whatever the cost of that conversation, it should relieve you from continuing to wonder what is best to do.
Be prepared with your written account of every detail you can gather about what happened and exactly when, even what time. And especially, the sources of your information. As you weren’t there, I assume that will be barn workers, who will need to get involved by officially sharing their information. Of course that will be essential for this to go the next step legally.
Be aware that anything you do legally is likely to be expensive, and that no matter how strong your case is, no particular outcome can be assured.
And that it will be talked about in your local horse community. If the barn owner fights it, more than one bridge is likely to be burned. It may be worth it to you, only you can determine that.
It would be interesting to hear the experiences of COTH people with somewhat similar situations, what they decided to do, and how it turned out.
You stayed at this barn for 6 months after the accident that made you think the BM was incompetent?
I think the situation is probably complicated by the fact that you sunk sizable vet bills into a low dollar horse. I think that you will need to sue for damages and can you sue for more than the worth of the horse?
Every barn has gaps in care and freak accidents. Realize that the BMs insurance company will fight this very hard.
This isn’t a case of where the barn owner could say oh yes let my insurance pay you off. That’s not how it works. You need to sue the BM for damages through your lawyer and demand the money whether or not the insurance company will cover it.
Depends how much you hate these people. Do you want to bankrupt them and make their life hell for 3 years and spend all your hobby time and cash on your lawyer? With no sure chance of you winning?
If you really hate them and want to devote years and $1000s dollars to revenge well that’s one thing.
If you think you can just write one polite demand letter and the insurance company will pay out $16,000, well that is not how life or insurance works.
Well some barns have CC&C insurance as well as liability insurance - this is what the OP is asking about not suing them. There is a level of negligence here - first the help lead the horse through an area that had potential for foreign objects to be laying around. Sure a horse can step on a nail anywhere - mine stepped on a nail in our ring --no doubt it came loose from one of the jump standards in the ring. Second - they didn’t even bother to check why the horse was lame. At a bare minimum they should’ve check for a pulse in the hoove.
Problem is if the barn has insurance for which you could file such a claim.
I still think you would need to sue to get a judgement against this insurance and the insurance company would fight it. You can’t just file a claim like you do for a car accident or prescriptions on your health insurance.
Years ago we had a horse for sale on consignment in a trainer’s barn.
They went to a show and the horses left were turned out for the weekend, as is common.
When they were bringing horses in Monday, our horse had a nail in his hoof, was dead lame.
They hauled him to the vet right away and called so I met them there.
Nail had gone thru into the navicular bone and the prognosis was bad.
Vets consulted with TX A+M vets, followed their protocol of shoe with hospital plate, perfusion of the lower leg with medication, etc.
Horse still developed an untreatable infection and after several weeks trying all they could think to do, they had to euthanize him.
The loss of the horse and the high cost at the vet clinic for several weeks was considerable.
Still, what happened was an accident, there would not have been any recourse for that.
It would be hard to prove when the horse stepped on the nail.
The OP here could ask a local lawyer if there is any cause there to find negligence, someone else to pay in her situation, the barn, their insurance and where this may go and at what cost.
I think you have two different problems and in my opinion, tossing the strangles issue into the mix makes you look bad more than them look bad.
I do not know of a single barn whose bio-security is such that any time horse leaves the property it is quarantined before being allowed back to its normal routine and contact with the other animals. Any horse that goes to a show can bring back something.
would be a good question, but since OP did have her vet treat the injury and it was proven to be a bolt in the hoof then the time line really gets to be a point of contention. The carrier may deny any claim because the barn owner failed to inform them in timely manor… really have no idea as I have never dealt with anything like this…but the poster that suggested a written log is right on as I have been in court and had to refer to my log as to a timeline of events rather attempt to recall, which could be interrupted as altering facts to fit the needs
Actually I stand corrected - the CC&C insurance is for the barn owner to help cover their expenses if they get sued over a CC&C issue. So you’re right, I’m wrong - OP needs to file against the barn owner. If they have CC&C it will help cover the barn owner’s costs.
Suggest getting all your documents/witnesses statements [make sure you have complete contact information for all witnesses at the top of their statements] together --make four copies of each —and then either file in small claims for the max (usually 5K) or take it to your lawyer. Since your claim is so large, I think the lawyer would be best, although I have twice in 30 years successfully sued in small claims court (lawyers in the family make that easier for me than most, I think). If the lawyer thinks you have a claim, then sue. If he/she does not --reconsider small claims. I will tell you that many, many times, a certified letter sent by a lawyer is enough to bring the other party “to the table.” I agree that the fact you kept horse at the stable after the injury does not work in your favor --but even so, your lawyer is in a better position to evaluate this than us arm-chair observers. I will tell you, the more evidence you have --hard copy vet bills, and the more witnesses you have who are willing to speak in court, the better chance you stand.
(stop reading here unless you are interested in how I won my case against a clinic organizer)
My last endeavor into small claims was against a clinic organizer who took 1/2 deposit from 7 riders (including me) then failed to hold the clinic --she then said we’d all signed a paper that said the deposit was “non-refundable.” --since I am not a lawyer, I could only sue for myself ($312). I did have the law on my side --any deposit made in anticipation of goods or services must be returned if the goods/service is not produced or provided. —I ran into trouble with venue --clinic was to be held in a neighboring state. Clinic organizer got a lawyer who filed to dismiss as he said I had to sue in that sate – where the organizer lived and the clinic was stated to be held. I argued that venue was where “the transaction took place or where the business was conducted.” Since the organizer advertised in my state (had proof), had done clinics in my state (more proof), solicited me personally (email proof) to attend, accepted money from my in-state bank (more proof), that that showed she “conducted business in my state and the transaction occurred in my state.” Still might have lost that if I hadn’t had a witness --a woman who lived in my state who had personally been invited to the clinic by the organizer, face-to-face while standing in a stable in my state. With that witness’ testimony in court, I made the 51% criteria for winning my “correct venue” counter motion --and at that point, won the case. But my witness was KEY. And don’t sweat the “you will never get your money.” —I was told that a million times by people who don’t know the court system. I continued to file motions for payment and ultimately a body attachment was issued --had the woman ever been stopped in my state for any reason, that warrant would show up and she’d be taken to jail and held until she made payment to me or could “show cause” why she could not . At that point she sent $$$$ (now $750 due to costs).
I had a couple of things that helped me --I am retired and had all the time in the world to sit in court (actually enjoyed my time there --got dressed up and watched real life drama unfold as other cases were heard). And as I said, lawyers in the family while clearly telling me I could handle this on my own, were willing to guide me to correct procedure --and my lawyer daughter told me to “do something with my hair” in court --it’s very curly and tends to stick out like Ronald McDonald hair --so I slicked it into a pony tail and wore a nice black suit I found at the Goodwill store. Clearly that worked.
And winning against a for-real lawyer was priceless for this old retired school teacher. The clinic organizer never appeared in court. Just her lawyer. I suspect she paid a whopping lot to have him in court 6 times –
My farm implements are used all over the farm. It would be impossible to prove where the bolt was picked up. a bolt can come loose anywhere and it is impossible to prevent all such issues. In fact it’s most likely to come off moving rather than parked, as vibrations can work them loose.
It is unfortunate it wasn’t noticed earlier but unless your board includes daily hoof picking, I doubt you will be able to prove fault.
So sorry this happened to your horse, but it’s not that uncommon. I had a new barn built and am finding the occasional lost nail in the area, despite the company and myself running magnets all around. I worry about this happening but there’s nothing I can really DO about it other than magnet swipes of the construction area which are not failsafe at all especially as things move around. Magnet swiping everywhere that I run farm equipment would be a completely insane expectation on 20 acres. really bad luck your horse picked up the bolt but that’s horses.
Talk to a local attorney. Most will consult for a reasonable fee and give you options that will be viable where you live.
If the vet says that a reasonable barn owner/manager should have noticed the lameness and investigated it and a failure to do so caused serious injury then you’ve got some pretty powerful testimony if the thing goes to much further. That will also get the attention of an adjuster because they will now have to find countervailing expert testimony (read that as “expensive to defend under the circumstances claimed”).
That you didn’t move immediately is not a major issue. The fact that you had an injured horse that would have been a challenge to move will be quite relevant in establishing “why not?” We ALL KNOW that moving a horse to new barn is a Big Deal and is not to be done without thought and preparation. This delay will not be difficult to explain.
Re insurance, what state are you in? In some states (WI and LA at least) you can sue an insurance carrier directly. In most you have to sue the individual and the presence or absence of insurance is treated as an irrelevancy (something lawyers call a “legal fiction” ;)).
If you’re out $10,000 then that’s a fair sum and it’s at the low end of probable economic benefit. Again, it depends on where you live. If your state has a robust Deceptive Trade Practices Act statute and you can work this claim under it then you’d get not only damages but perhaps multiple damages, court costs, and attorney’s fees. It might be a stretch to put this under that sort of statute but it all depends on local. It’s worth a look.
This will sound in both Contract (the BO clearly failed to live up to the common low duties that would apply to any BO that saw a horse with this level of clear and profound lameness) and in Tort (a failure to exercise reasonable care for an animal with a clear and profound lameness). With some good lawyer-ing you might convince a finder of fact that the failure of the BO was particularly egregious and that punitive damages are appropriate.
But, first, you have to check what your options are under local law.
Not clear from the first posts how profound it was, and based on the BO’s explanation, it sounds like the horse is regularly a bit gimpy, which the BO did notice but it wasn’t so bad to her to raise further alarms.
I board a lot of retirees who have old issues, and my red flags don’t go off unless one of them is lame in a new way or more severely. It’s definitely unfortunate the issue wasn’t flagged sooner. Maybe it was negligent enough? Hard to know since we don’t know how bad the horse looked in the days before OP saw it.
The only process you have for attempting to get some recompense is to file a lawsuit against the BO. You will need to pay for your own attorney. Then, the BO’s insurance will hire him/her an attorney, the court process will unfold, and if you win a judgment or there is a settlement in your favor, you would receive that money. (Minus, of course, what you will have spent on attorneys’ fees.)
I am here to tell you that you are very unlikely to receive any recompense. Here are the reasons:
You have absolutely no proof that the incident occurred due to anything other than a random accident. A bolt could have fallen off a tractor or other piece of equipment at any time when it was being driven around the farm, and you have no proof of what circumstances cause the bolt to become lodged in your horse’s foot. There is no proof of negligence and this is an accident that could occur to a horse at even the fanciest, most perfectly run barn. Gimpyness is a very nonspecific symptom and many older horses have days when they might move stiffly. In addition, the horse may not have been very lame until the infection became worse and presented itself.
Even if there had been negligence, any payout would be limited to the value of the animal.
Your assertion that this barn is substandard is weak, given that you remained at this barn at least 6 months since.
Lastly, your comments about the Strangles outbreak are puzzling. Any horse at any barn that has horses coming and going to and from any competitions, clinics, or trail rides could come down with Strangles. Biosecurity measures that would prevent a Strangles outbreak from coming to a barn would be very onerous, I do not know any barns that routinely quarantine horses that go to shows or clinics.
My advice to you is that first of all you need to come to terms with the responsibility that being a horse owner entails. Horses are by nature unpredictable and accident prone. If you think that a barn is substandard, MOVE YOUR HORSE. You, as the owner, are invariably responsible for your horses’ veterinary bills. If that bothers you, you should consider obtaining mortality and major medical insurance. These policies can be quite expensive, because the insurance companies are well aware of how extensive vet bills can be.
Also, just as an aside, full care in most instances includes basic care like feeding, watering, stall cleaning, and turnout. It does not include going over your horse with a fine tooth comb every day nor doing lameness exams and determining the cause of a gimpy step. Your BO is not a vet. A BO might or might not notice/fuss over a gimpy step that an older horse takes. If you are so worried about your horses you need to pay more to have them at a facility that DOES include a higher level of service such as grooming and daily hoof-picking. I personally provide this level of service at my own barn as an option, but it is quite expensive which reflects the time and effort it takes to provide.
You have absolutely no proof that the incident occurred due to anything other than a random accident. A bolt could have fallen off a tractor or other piece of equipment at any time when it was being driven around the farm, and you have no proof of what circumstances cause the bolt to become lodged in your horse’s foot.
of course I have no idea what the facts are But the horse was in BO custody and never left the premises, so without question the bolt did come for the location
Also insurance is only for accidents… if premeditated coverage is void
OP just needs to consult with an attorney who knows ranch/farms laws
but… I might be inclined to place a wager, BO does not have CC&C insurance
might add add this about a bit Gimpyness really does not factor because it is the duty of the BO to make sure the horse is in good health even it requires repeated checks daily
I will be following this, since I am a barn owner with CCC.
my thoughts so far:
There is absolutely no way to tell where the bolt came from on the property. Walking horse through an area where tractors are parked is no more at risk than working your horse in the arena where the tractor pounds around umpteen times per week. We do our ring every day at least once, tractors are rumbling around there for hours, and are much likely to drop parts there.
I do notify the owners if anything at all seems to be wrong with the horse. Even if I feel like I am being overreactive. A short text will suffice. However, I can see how a slightly lame horse who is always slightly lame may not warrant a notification. And I could also see that it would be possible that a slight lameness would not explode into severe Lameness until the infection engaged. I had a pony who stepped on a nail, and he was really only slightly lame, and I’m glad that I found the nail early.
in my state, in order to win a claim of this type in court, Gross negligence must be proven. There is specific criteria for that, and I do not know if there is a Horsemens protection law in your state or not. Definitely something to check on.
Clanter has it figured it out. The issue is not the bolt; it’s a clear and profound lameness that was not investigated.
There are certainly multiple issues, here, the bottom line is that the BO screwed up. Whether or not the screw up is actionable is open to question. But the screw up is manifest.
