Making a complaint to a vet

[SquishTheBunny]

Instead of filing a complaint, I would suggest calling the vets office and saying something like this:

Hi, my pony was seen by Dr. XX on Wednesday. He was sedated for his procedure with dermosedan. I just wanted to update Dr. XXX that he is doing well now, but had a rough recovery from the sedation, and to please make not of it in his file for future reference.

This is a way to let your vet know that you wre concerned about the sedation given, but not blatently “blaming” the vet.

FWIW, I use the small animal equivalent to Dermosedan. It has a WIDE range of dosing, some patients are very sedated off a small amount while others who are worked up prior to injection, get minimal sedation even from the higher doses. IM doses are often 2-3x the amount depending on the drug. For example, in small animals I would give approx. 0.05mL to a quiet Labrador IV…yet I have also given 1mL to a crazy husky. I have also used 0.1mL on a cat IM. Generally sedation is more pronounced with higher doses, but the major side effect (bradycardia) is not.

[Wonders12]

[QUOTE=NewCoffee;7674074]
Wonders12:

Do you know what the guidelines are when it’s injected into the muscles?[/QUOTE]

I do not. I’m not a vet. But I do know in general, it’s significantly more. It looks like some people are saying 2-3x more, which seems about right.

After reading your responses, it might be justified to reach out to the clinic. However, I don’t think the sedation is really the issue here, I think it’s what you’re not depicting in detail about how he handled your horse. If you feel strongly about complaining, something that says “Dr. X was out to visit pony last week. Unfortunately our experience wasn’t great. He seemed rushed and I’m worried some shortcuts were taken. I just don’t think he and pony work. In the past I have had great experiences with Dr. Y and Dr. Z and I love your clinic. I know in emergencies it’s all hands on deck, but how would I go about requesting the other doctors for routine procedures?”

Do keep in mind:
[LIST=1]

Not all equine vets are "horse people". You would be surprised at how many never touched a horse before vet school.

While your horse might be "just fine as long as you get to know him", the vet is working with many different horses. Just before you, he may have worked with a "just fine" horse who was very dangerous, so he stepped into your appointment on edge.

Vets (like most people) have egos, and even a polite complaint may make him/other vets reluctant to work with you.

You are not a vet, so be careful about what you complain about. I think a complaint about the sedation would be hard, because it seems like a pretty normal although a little long lasting sedation. I think your point is move valid about his horse handling and how he treated you as a customer.[/LIST] OP, you seem very level headed and like you're taking iall of the COTH feedback into consideration. In a perfect world, polite criticism would never have bad results, but we don't live in the perfect work. Just consider the possible repercussions before moving forward.

[gottagrey]

I don’t know that I’d write a letter of complaint as much as I’d call their office and ask about the dosage of sedative - I’d also mention that the pony seemed to take quite some time to recover… and for future vet needs, I’d request another vet from that clinic.

[HeatherCK11]

The appropriate time to have discussed this with the vet would have been that day.
If it was important, a same day call would have been made to consult regarding the sedation/recovery, etc.
To call and complain a MONTH later?

[Calamber]

[QUOTE=2DogsFarm;7673973]
Before you crucify the vet have a conversation about the sedation.
You can ask about the dosage & express your concern over recovery time.

My TB had to be sedated for getting his teeth done (in stocks!) - he had a great circulatory system & generally needed an initial dose, then a booster when he started showing signs of coming out.
Generally Dormosedan initially then a Turbogesic cocktail to follow.

Recovery time thus took longer than if a single dose had been sufficient.
I’d stay with him, at the clinic, until he was safe to load on my trailer.
Vet stayed with me & the recovery usually took anywhere from 20-40min.
He looked like he was drunk, head low, wobbly & he’d take a bite of grass, then forget to chew.

As alarming as your pony looked, I’m assuming he was back to 100% when the sedation wore off.[/QUOTE]

She said it took 3 hours to wear off so that she could leave him. That is too long. I agree with CD though and would not burn bridges but find a different vet. Once pony was wound up, you would have to give more sedative for it to work. If vet is inexperienced with handling, absolutely find another more experienced horse professional.

[rcloisonne]

It sounds like some of you don’t know what the average dose of dormoseden should be. The OP’s pony was given a huge dose for his size! I’ve had larger TBs and Arabians almost go down with less than half that amount, horses that won’t even relax an ear at high doses of IV ace/rompum.
I do agree many vets (and MDs for that matter) don’t handle criticism well. Especially those who are already insecure.
There’s a website someone posted a month or two ago about how to train your horse to accept routine medical procedures written by vets at either Cornel or Rutgers. Even they were aghasted how many of their fellow vets actually made things worse. I’d post a link but I’m on my phone. I’ll do so as soon as I get access to a computer.

[TrueColours]

A vet clinic I used several years ago had 4 vets in residence. 1 was okay, 2 I quite liked and respected and 1 I wouldn’t use if my horse was dying …

I specifically requested that Vet #4 was NEVER sent to my farm and on the 1 occasion he did show up and I sent him away, I didn’t pay anything and it didn’t affect my relationship with the other 3 vets. THEY apologized - they said the girl up front didn’t see the note on my file that Vet #4 was never to be sent out and it was their mistake - not mine

I guess its all in how you address things with them that will or wont affect your future relationship with that clinic

[SquishTheBunny]

[QUOTE=rcloisonne;7674842]
It sounds like some of you don’t know what the average dose of dormoseden should be. The OP’s pony was given a huge dose for his size! I’ve had larger TBs and Arabians almost go down with less than half that amount, horses that won’t even relax an ear at high doses of IV ace/rompum.
I do agree many vets (and MDs for that matter) don’t handle criticism well. Especially those who are already insecure.
There’s a website someone posted a month or two ago about how to train your horse to accept routine medical procedures written by vets at either Cornel or Rutgers. Even they were aghasted how many of their fellow vets actually made things worse. I’d post a link but I’m on my phone. I’ll do so as soon as I get access to a computer.[/QUOTE]

Not all horses react to dormosedan the same way. I have one (thoroughbred) who takes 2mL, where the other one just needs to sniff the bottle and he’s down and out. 1.5mL IS a lot, but the dose margin is so large it is not unheard of to give larger volumes. This is, of course, assuming the concentration of “dormosedan” is the same and not compounded by another pharmacy in a smaller mg/mL concentration.

[Mosey_2003]

It can be really hard to judge how much a horse or pony ‘needs’ when it comes to sedation. My guy is 16.2hh and weighs 1250lbs, sometimes more, and the 1000lb dose of dormosedan/whatever cocktail the vet with the dentist uses is too much for him, he’s a total lightweight. My first horse was barely 15hh, probably 850lbs and would routinely come right back out of sedation and had to be given much more.

[rcloisonne]

[QUOTE=SquishTheBunny;7675575]
Not all horses react to dormosedan the same way.[/QUOTE]
I realize that. However, to inject that much dormosedan into a small pony with no history of how it reacts to sedatives is, well, foolhardy and scary. I don’t blame the OP for her concerns and she is right about that dose being excessive.

What she can do about it, other than mention a preferrence for another vet in that practice for routine care visits, is limited. It’s doubtful lodging a formal complaint would do any good. It also sounds like she is limited in the number of good equine vets in the area.

Had similar issues myself when using a larger equine practice the boarding barn used years ago. We always seemed to get the most incompetent vet on staff. She couldn’t even float teeth without leaving 70-80% of the horses not wanting to eat or drink for several days (this was hand floating under sedation). Had trouble drawing blood from even the most compliant horses. Sweet person, very kind and you could clearly see she loved animals more than most but I have no idea how she ever graduated from vet school. The vet the OP has issues with sounds similar, except for the sweet & kind part.

Anyway, here’s the link about how to train a horse to willingly accept typical on the farm medical procedures such as shots, blood drawing, temp taking, etc… It works beautifully! Took only 4 or 5 short (10 min) sessions to retrain my very set in her ways, she-who-must-be obeyed, big, bossy Lipizzaner mare. The former “I’ll nail you to the wall if you come close with that needle, thermometer or try to syringe stuff into my mouth” now doesn’t blink an eye for these things. Has even worked for facial & bridlepath clipping which used to terrify her. I re-enforce the lesson weekly by either taking her temp or syringing in a small amount of molasses.

http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/projects/equinebehavior/FAQ/terrible.htm

[Pennywell_Bay]

[QUOTE=SquishTheBunny;7675575]
Not all horses react to dormosedan the same way. I have one (thoroughbred) who takes 2mL, where the other one just needs to sniff the bottle and he’s down and out. 1.5mL IS a lot, but the dose margin is so large it is not unheard of to give larger volumes. This is, of course, assuming the concentration of “dormosedan” is the same and not compounded by another pharmacy in a smaller mg/mL concentration.[/QUOTE]

So agree. I had the vet out and he had to tranq a pony. Pony was still an ahole and the vet said “I can’t give her any more. I have given her enough to knock out a draft horse. I don’t want to kill her. Clearly she did not read the manual on sedation.”

Some horses, like people, metabolize drug differently.

Anyway, I’d call and ask any questions you may have. I have done this in the past. And if you do not like the way the vet handled your animal, look for a different vet.

Sidebar: Don’t write a letter. Ever see the Seinfeld where the doctor puts a note in Elaine’s file?

[FindersKeepers]

Rather than file a complaint, I would simply express concern regarding your horse’s recovery. The vets do not get to see that, and in my experience as a tech, ponies in particular will seem completely un-sedated while “threatened” but then once the event is over, REALLY give in to the sedation and follow it down a rabbit hole and sit with it for longer than normal.

Again, I would explain his recovery experience and the length of time it took, and come up with a better plan for future blood draws. Perhaps a female veterinarian will help take the edge off for him and make it easier to be a cooperative patient.

[kcmel]

There was a vet at the practice I use that I felt was really bad about handling horses. She seemed to be intimidated by them–she was quite small and my horses were ~16.2 hand tbs. If she was on call when I needed a vet out and my regular vet couldn’t come, I had a back-up independent vet I would call. Fortunately she is gone now. I also had a vet give a sedative without informing me. That freaked me out!

[independentlyawesome]

OP: The reason people think your post is too intense is you’re talking about filing a formal complaint. It’s not about being Danish or American. A formal letter over basically nothing will get you flagged as a difficult client at the vet clinic.

Yes, you should call the vet clinic and tell them (politely) how your pony reacted to sedation. They need that in their file so that the dose can be adjusted next time. If the pony’s riled up when the dose is given, then he likely needed the higher dose. However, when the vet stopped messing with him & he calmed down it sounds like the meds hit him harder. That’s not ideal but also nowhere near malpractice.

Yes, you should request a vet you prefer next time you make an appointment. Plenty of people request their preferred vet, it might just mean you have to wait a little longer for an appointment.

And I’d do plenty of groundwork & handling exercises so he learns how to behave in all circumstances. Plenty of horses have holes in that training, so this experience just taught you that you need to patch that hole.