Hello. I’ve been on a mad quest to improve the diet of my horses. They currently eat Tribute feeds which I recently learned is loaded with soy. Now I realize soy in and of itself is not evil. But the way it’s processed here has made me decide to go soy free. I cannot go completely organic as I don’t have the resources available to do so here where I live. But I will try to do the best I can. It could be that I won’t be able to find an organic supplement that is affordable but I’d like to try. OR…do any of you feed your horse a diet that is complete for them where no supplements are needed? I have young warmbloods and two of them are foals so I want to be sure they’re not lacking in anything. I have access to great mixed grass hay and alfalfa. My husband makes it for me so it’s in abundance. Still I know this isn’t going to be a complete diet for them especially the ones that are working and growing.
My current thoughts are to make my own feed mix including oats, flax, and alfalfa/Timothy pellets for starters. But how can I know where that gets me nutritionally and what else I need to add to that? Im open to any and all suggestions. Thanks so much for your time.
That’s quite an undertaking.
I guess I’d start out with the publication Nutrient Requirements of Horses.
(I’ll get a link for you.) that is published every so often–the latest is “only” a few years old. Used to be, you could read it online, but you have to order it now–unless that has changed, too.
Then, I’d send what I do feed to DairyOne/Equi-Analytical, to see for sure what I’m giving them.
And then, I’d try to get as close as I could to what’s ideal–still keeping in mind, that just like us, one size doesn’t fit all.
Here’s the link on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Nutrient-Requirements-Horses-Revised-Nutrition/dp/030910212X
With feeding nothing but oats, flax and hay pellets, the number one thing you’ll be missing is vitamins and minerals, as none of those are fortified. The single easiest way to remedy this is with a ration balancer. Approximately one pound of RB will provide an average full grown horse with all the necessary vit/min and protein they need. Simply read the directions on the bag of whichever brand you decide to use to adjust for foals or really large horses. You could also try going with a simple vit/min supplement, but they do not contain the necessary levels of protein horses need, so keep that in mind.
My oldest mare (now 26) is sensitive to soy, and I’ve found the best feed for her is Triple Crown Senior. The first soy product doesn’t show up until about the 4th ingredient down or so. So, if you’d consider a feed simply lower in soy, this might be a good alternative. The TC Growth is almost identical to the Senior, but with higher levels of threonine and lysine that young horses need. However, the first soy product shows up third ingredient down. Hope this helps some, and good luck!
Thank you guys for your help. As for the ration balancers, the one I was using from Tribute (Essential K) lists soy as the top two ingredients (as soybean meal and ground extruded while soybeans) then it shows up again as soybean oil further down the list so I’d have to look into alternative RB’s.
Correct me if I’m wrong because I’m just learning but since they get high quality grass hay and alfalfa, do they still need much more added protein?
[QUOTE=About Time;8312969]
Correct me if I’m wrong because I’m just learning but since they get high quality grass hay and alfalfa, do they still need much more added protein?[/QUOTE]
It depends! 
Get your hay tested and lay it all out and look. Or run it through FeedXL.
I feed straight alfalfa with a protein at 18-20 ish % and the horses do fine on that with no additional protein.
I don’t need to grain for the bulk of the year, and I use Uckele’s Vita-VM for vitamins and minerals. I also feed copper and zinc to balance out the WHOPPING amount of iron we have here. The horses get their supplements in about a lb of Nutrena Senior, because they eat it well and it’s easy for me.
I could also feed the VM mix in oats and soaked pellets, but using the small amount of grain is just easier for me.
Since you’re starting from scratch, the easier thing is probably to sign up for FeedXL, test your hay and start tinkering around.
[QUOTE=About Time;8312969]
Thank you guys for your help. As for the ration balancers, the one I was using from Tribute (Essential K) lists soy as the top two ingredients (as soybean meal and ground extruded while soybeans) then it shows up again as soybean oil further down the list so I’d have to look into alternative RB’s.
Correct me if I’m wrong because I’m just learning but since they get high quality grass hay and alfalfa, do they still need much more added protein?[/QUOTE]
It depends…why the rush to get away from soy?
TC 30% has dehulled soybean meal as it’s 1st ingredient, but when you feed a ration balancer, you are only feeding 1-2 lbs a day, so if your horse is getting 20-25 lbs of roughage/concentrate a day, you are talking 4-8%of the diet being soy based, and even then, the soy may make up less than 30% of that percentage.
Regarding soy…I’ve been reading about it for the last few days like crazy and am starting to feel quite sure that several of my horses (all mares) are being affected in one way or another by it. Even my two foals have large swellings in front of their udders which can be a side effect of soy based on what I’m reading. It is heavily processed, has chemical processes done to it, and heat treated. I’m no expert in the matter but I don’t feel comfortable with it after spending the last several days trying to educate myself about it. Here is one of the many links I’ve been reading about it.
FeedXL sounds like a good idea. So thanks for that suggestion! I will look into that! As far as hay testing, my hay comes from about ten or twelve different fields. I love the fact that my horses get a large variety because that’s as close to the way it would be in the wild for them. We feed hay from various cuts each day. I’m worried that testing one type of hay that comes off one field (and one cutting will be different than the next) that it won’t give me a clear enough picture of what I need to add to balance their diet, would it? I’m asking because I just don’t know. And I do thank you all and respect your opinions so much.
[QUOTE=About Time;8312869]
Hello. I’ve been on a mad quest to improve the diet of my horses. They currently eat Tribute feeds which I recently learned is loaded with soy. Now I realize soy in and of itself is not evil. But the way it’s processed here has made me decide to go soy free. I cannot go completely organic as I don’t have the resources available to do so here where I live. But I will try to do the best I can. It could be that I won’t be able to find an organic supplement that is affordable but I’d like to try. OR…do any of you feed your horse a diet that is complete for them where no supplements are needed? I have young warmbloods and two of them are foals so I want to be sure they’re not lacking in anything. I have access to great mixed grass hay and alfalfa. My husband makes it for me so it’s in abundance. Still I know this isn’t going to be a complete diet for them especially the ones that are working and growing.
My current thoughts are to make my own feed mix including oats, flax, and alfalfa/Timothy pellets for starters. But how can I know where that gets me nutritionally and what else I need to add to that? Im open to any and all suggestions. Thanks so much for your time.[/QUOTE]
The foundation of ANY healthy, normal horse’s diet should be a quality grass hay. If alfalfa is prevalent and affordable in your area, this is useful too. In any event, whether it be pasture or hay, the QUALITY OF YOUR FORAGE will determine what else, if anything, you need to feed. For MANY horses, unless they are in very hard work (unusual, today) or ancient nothing more will be necessary. NOTE: It is FORAGE, not “grain,” and surely not “supplements,” that keeps a horse at its healthy and attractive weight.
If he is NOT able to ingest enough calories through forage, the next step up is to add some concentrates. Your choices are traditional grains, grain mixes or some processed version thereof, whether “textured,” “pelleted,” or “extruded.”
I tend not to pay for “complete” feeds with a high forage content included if the horse has a good set of teeth and can competently eat hay.
Unless he is experiencing endocrine or auto-immune issues, there is no ACTUAL reason to avoid feeds that include some soy, which is most of them. There is no reason whatsoever to pay egregious prices for “Certified Organic” ANYTHING for horses.
“Supplements” aside from “ration balancers” generally have no scientific proof of efficacy whatsoever beyond “because the ad says so.” They are a near-complete waste of money, just a “feel-good” placebo that makes owners think they are giving more “care” just by spending money.
Put your money where your HAY is for an optimally healthy horse!
We feed 63 horses ranging from weanlings to brood mares, stallions at stud and horses in heavy training a very high quality alfalfa (almost $400 a ton), just plain rolled oats and a white and a red salt block.
We don’t have a horse with ulcers, not one weight problem, and one mild colic in nearly 3 years.
There is not one horse is our barn on ANY oral supplement. Not joint, not vitamins, nothing.
My horses live on alfalfa and oats in summer… in winter alfalfa/grass mix hay and a pound of oats a day. Plus white salt block and loose mineral. Have an IR/Cushings horse so his diet is different now.
Horse on oats/alfalfa looks better the IR/cushings horse on his low S/S diet.
Indeed my hay is very high in quality as is the alfalfa. So you’re saying that hay, grass, some oats and mineral blocks are adequate for growing Warmblood foals who will probably end up to be quite large? I’m hoping for similar experiences of breeders and those who feed WB type young horses.
No one here is hurting for weight unless the foals go through a growth spurt suddenly. Then they may need a few extra calories. I don’t need anything fancy for them. I just want to make sure they don’t end up with bone/joint issues because I made a poor decision. If it makes any difference, these horses are hunters and jumpers. They do not sit idle in the pasture except for those who haven’t been started under saddle yet. The oldest horse in the barn is eight at this time. They horse show and travel around to lessons and clinics.
One of my mares had a minor laminitis incident so she has me a bit spooked as to feeding her now. This happened in the dead of winter when grass hay was her main staple. She also was given her soy based feed in low quantity twice a day.
Then I read all this stuff about soy and it wreaking havoc on the thyroid of some animals and humans as well so that with several other minor issues going on with my horses has me saying NO to soy. Not to organic soy…but to the highly processed crap soy that they sell in this country and which makes up 98% of all soy sold here in the U.S. and is in most every processed horse feed.
Definitely sign up for FeedXL. I doubt that you can properly balance all the necessary vitamins/minerals/etc. without it. And keep in mind that mineral blocks are mainly salt, so the amount of necessary minerals horses get from them is minimal. Without a hay or pasture analysis, you will definitely need to add at least a vit/min supplement to ensure they are getting proper nutrition.
My horses are happy and healthy on pasture and salt/mineral blocks in the summer and in winter a mixture of oats and alfalfa pellets, or alfalfa hay, a little flax and a lot of grass hay. Have not needed to supplement. No health problems whatsoever. 1 colic in 30 years (due to colon obstruction from cancerous tumor at 32 years of age) and was put down. No founders, no foot problems, no illnesses.
Look up Biostar EQ, which is an organic supplement company, and give a call to speak with Tigger. She has designed whole food feed programs for some of the top show barns in existence and can tell you ALL about nutritional values and how to structure your own mix. Be prepared to chat and take lots of notes, but WHAT an education you get! :yes:
Once you understand the fundamentals of equine nutrition and learn the nutrient values of the various options, it’s actually very simple. And the horses thrive. 
ETA: http://www.biostarus.com/Equine-WholeFoodDiet-a/267.htm
Wow! Biostar EQ looks amazing! Thanks so much for that link!
[QUOTE=About Time;8313135]
Regarding soy…I’ve been reading about it for the last few days like crazy and am starting to feel quite sure that several of my horses (all mares) are being affected in one way or another by it. Even my two foals have large swellings in front of their udders which can be a side effect of soy based on what I’m reading. It is heavily processed, has chemical processes done to it, and heat treated. I’m no expert in the matter but I don’t feel comfortable with it after spending the last several days trying to educate myself about it. Here is one of the many links I’ve been reading about it.
FeedXL sounds like a good idea. So thanks for that suggestion! I will look into that! As far as hay testing, my hay comes from about ten or twelve different fields. I love the fact that my horses get a large variety because that’s as close to the way it would be in the wild for them. We feed hay from various cuts each day. I’m worried that testing one type of hay that comes off one field (and one cutting will be different than the next) that it won’t give me a clear enough picture of what I need to add to balance their diet, would it? I’m asking because I just don’t know. And I do thank you all and respect your opinions so much.[/QUOTE]
Your horses are getting way way more phytoestrogens out in the pasture than they would ever get from soy. I suspect that to be the culprit, if you are seeing swollen udders in more than one horse. Soy sensitivity is not common. Had this conversation with my vet, maybe consult yours? Also, you might get some good comments in the sporthorse breeding forum.
[QUOTE=About Time;8313424]
Wow! Biostar EQ looks amazing! Thanks so much for that link![/QUOTE]
As you are allowing your horses access to pasture and you also feed high quality hay, you are already feeding a “whole food” diet to them. There is a lot of hype in that website - they are making broad sweeping claims about “all” “commercial” feeds and trying to push your panic button so you buy their products. Keep doing your research. I went “no soy” with my fatties, replaced the ration balancer with Equipride, but did NOT see a difference in the “fat udders” and fat pockets. So my assumption that they had a soy sensitivity was wrong.
You can’t really say whether your horses need a vitamin/mineral supplement without getting your hay tested. In my region, the constant rain leaches the minerals out of the soil, so even the nicest hay is low in minerals. Get your hay tested and talk to a nutritionist about the results.
You could get each field tested, or you could send in a sample mixed from several fields that approximates what you feed. I think in any case, if you are growing your own hay, it would be very interesting to have it tested. If the growing and harvesting are under your control, you have the ability to influence its sugar, protein. and mineral levels by the time of day and time of year/stage of growth you harvest at, plus whether you fertilize (which can be organic if you like). I know there is detailed information out there for farmers from agriculture departments and university extension programs, which I’ve always skimmed past as this end of things is not in my control.
I understand that fresh pasture provides a number of vitamins that don’t survive in hay, so if the horses are also on pasture, you may not need vitamin supplements. You can of course also send in pasture forage for testing.
I don’t have any experience with feeding or bringing up youngsters, but have read about problems with young horses having too many of some nutrients, and ending up with bone problems from growing too fast. You might ask in the breeding forum, as the folks there would know about this.
[QUOTE=About Time;8313353]
Indeed my hay is very high in quality as is the alfalfa. So you’re saying that hay, grass, some oats and mineral blocks are adequate for growing Warmblood foals who will probably end up to be quite large? I’m hoping for similar experiences of breeders and those who feed WB type young horses.
No one here is hurting for weight unless the foals go through a growth spurt suddenly. Then they may need a few extra calories. I don’t need anything fancy for them. I just want to make sure they don’t end up with bone/joint issues because I made a poor decision. If it makes any difference, these horses are hunters and jumpers. They do not sit idle in the pasture except for those who haven’t been started under saddle yet. The oldest horse in the barn is eight at this time. They horse show and travel around to lessons and clinics.
One of my mares had a minor laminitis incident so she has me a bit spooked as to feeding her now. This happened in the dead of winter when grass hay was her main staple. She also was given her soy based feed in low quantity twice a day.
Then I read all this stuff about soy and it wreaking havoc on the thyroid of some animals and humans as well so that with several other minor issues going on with my horses has me saying NO to soy. Not to organic soy…but to the highly processed crap soy that they sell in this country and which makes up 98% of all soy sold here in the U.S. and is in most every processed horse feed.[/QUOTE]
I’m not telling you it will work on your horses, I’m telling you what has worked for the past 23 years for ours. Breeding world class reining and cutting horses…we’ve fed some TB’s and WB’s along the way and had great success with this approach.
As for feeding young horses, ours live out with run ins, we feed large square bales of alfalfa in coveted feeders and they eat alfalfa free choice plus oats in the winter, on grass and oats all summer. I’ll have to take pictures of the yearlings. They look fabulous!
