Wait, are they not the same horses? I thought they were the same horses, but in terrible condition. The markings on the chestnut seem to match.
[QUOTE=MHM;5553732]
Wait, are they not the same horses? I thought they were the same horses, but in terrible condition. The markings on the chestnut seem to match.[/QUOTE]
Yes, they are the same horses but NOT in the same condition as represented in the photos and video we were given. The Chestnut was represented as a stunning mover with an incredible jump, auto changes, and quite the show record - while all of this MAY have been true, he came to us (after we paid a good amount of money to get him here) as a skinny, malnourished animal with teeth so sharp that he lacerated his tongue. Oh, and I believe I previousy mentioned - FOUNDERED. This man will be stopped.
Thanks again for the support and comments. Will try to keep updating on how this unfolds and hopefully inform people enough to not fall into his trap.
That’s what I thought.
How old do you think the sales videos and pictures were? Were they even taken by the seller? Those horses could not have gone from one condition to the other overnight.
There was a thread on here a while back about a trainer who used a sale picture that was taken at a show several years ago, before the current helmet rules went into effect. It may have been the same horse, but probably when he was 10 years younger.
I will say only one thing (I posted on other threads about this shyster). I got a phone call from him back in February, I was at a show showing and he informed me that either I pull all my comments off of COTH or he was suing me for slander!! He said he didn’t even know who I was and had never had business dealings with me (umm…WRONG!!) Of course I hung up on him and it is now over two months later and haven’t been served with any lawsuits!
MHM, Sorry… I knew what I was trying to say, but I get a big FAIL on the communication front for that one… 
TheHarrier communicated what I was trying to say…
[QUOTE=shawneeAcres;5553784]
I will say only one thing (I posted on other threads about this shyster). I got a phone call from him back in February, I was at a show showing and he informed me that either I pull all my comments off of COTH or he was suing me for slander!! He said he didn’t even know who I was and had never had business dealings with me (umm…WRONG!!) Of course I hung up on him and it is now over two months later and haven’t been served with any lawsuits![/QUOTE]
I was one of the one he’s threatened to sue on the original crazy thread almost 4 years ago. I never heard anything either. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=shawneeAcres;5553784]
I will say only one thing (I posted on other threads about this shyster). I got a phone call from him back in February, I was at a show showing and he informed me that either I pull all my comments off of COTH or he was suing me for slander!! He said he didn’t even know who I was and had never had business dealings with me (umm…WRONG!!) Of course I hung up on him and it is now over two months later and haven’t been served with any lawsuits![/QUOTE]
This is funny - he called today saying that we were “harassing” him and that a police report was being filed against us. Since the arrival of these horses we have done nothing but try to contact him in regards to finding out why these horses are so malnourished. I just keep saying “everything happens for a reason” - so I am hoping something good comes out of this.
On a good note, we have both horses tucked up in stalls with ad lib hay and good feed and supplements to get them jump started. The farrier came out this morning to relieve the pressure on the chestnut’s foundered foot - luckily just the one front. Both have normal vitals but still concerned about the swollen lymphnode on the little grey so the vet will be out asap to look into it. No fever or discharge and is only on one side so we are hoping for the best.
Taking a deep breath and feeling lucky to have these boys on the right track!
wow, those poor horses, the feet on the chestnut are shocking. good job for taking care of them, and good luck taking care of this guy in the manner he deserves.
As we recently purchased a horse from MSF, I’ll add my two cents worth from our experience…<zipping up flame suit>:
We came across a horse we thought was cute, and decided to purchase, sight unseen (just photos and video), w/o vet check due to the cheap price of the horse. No claims were made of breeding paperwork or bloodlines, other than Old/TB cross.
“William” was initially self-entitled, tight lipped and opinionated (like a ton of others we all know in the industry), but after discussion spoke at length about the horse, was willing to ship the horse to a bigger pick up location at no charge, didn’t charge for board between purchase and shipping, got the coggins/health papers done for us, and offered to put shoes all around for the trip. He told me on shipping day the farrier hadn’t been able to make it out, and apologized. Take from that what you may. He shipped with hay and a brand new nice halter.
The horse arrived underweight (slightly more so than we’d seen in the video, but not surprising considering what the video had shown), with dull winter coat (no welts/ticks, fortunately!) & shaggy mane, far overdue for farrier trim/shaping, and footsore. His feet had many splits/breaks and fever lines on them as well, and he did not appear to have had teeth done recently.
THIS BEING SAID, it is nearly exactly what we expected, buying a horse so inexpensively without paperwork without seeing it in person. We could have flown there to see him in person, we elected not to and take that risk. We were given the opportunity, and could have had him vet checked before shipping, rather than waiting until the horse got here to have our own vet do a check. We elected not to and take that risk. For us, it was a gamble we were OK with taking to give the horse a good home and let it come what may.
Although this is not how we keep our horses, and have promptly clipped him/wormed him/pulled mane/trimmed his feet/began putting weight and grooming to put a great bloom on him…it has not taken much to start him onto the path to good health to our standards, and in another month or so will be shining, fat(ter) and happy alongside our show horses.
The horse is young, a little nervous around people but sweet as can be when you work slowly around him, and has an absolute puppy dog personality. He is smart and a quick learner, figured out lunging with voice commands in one session…He had never been sat on before, and was the absolute easiest horse to start we’ve ever worked with. Not a moment of any silly behavior under saddle from him, he is brave, sweet, eager to please and kind. NO spook, on his 2nd time under saddle he was already hacking around our property out of the ring. Within a handful of rides beyond, he was cantering quietly and even went over a small crossrail. For all those reasons we are more than pleased with the result of our purchase, despite any disappointment in prior care.
If he was then in the condition he now is, under our care and training, the horse would be priced substantially higher, and reasonably so.
I’m not at all disagreeing with those who may feel concern about questionable history of horses while at MSF (or for all I know, prior to then as well), and for that can see cause for possible investigation/concern/action to learn more as you feel personally compelled…BUT I think as a buyer you have to be a little realistic and have due diligence; for me to be upset at the condition of a horse I elected to purchase for a very low price that already showed to be thin in videos without going to see it to verify what it looks like and without doing a prior vet check seems naive…and I’m not. We went into the purchase prepared to take a risk on it, knowing that we could provide a fantastic better home for what looked to be a sweet horse, and if it worked out to be nice enough to work with, ride and make something of, even better.
…just my own thoughts and experience in the matter, take from it whatever you find helpful. 
1 Like
I don’t understand how this guy can still be around- If he was doing this in my area he’d have been run out of the state long ago. I know he has moved, but he keeps moving around SC, right?
He’s obviously got some sort of support system there, or else he’d be long gone- perhaps he still lives at home and is mooching off of his mommy or something. Maybe someone should send these photos to her and let her see what he is doing?
I don’t know…all guesses for sure, but I know he has GOT to be stopped. too many people thinking they get a deal are duped, and for many, the amount of money they spend is a lot, and they only have one shot at a horse- I am grateful that TheHarrier is in a position to care for these guys and not it have it ruin them- not to mention the poor animals! He’s probably picking them straight up from a kill pen to go from a bad situation to a worse one.
What a terrible, terrible person. He ought to be ashamed.
My thoughts on that…hope he owned it legally to sell it to you…
[QUOTE=TheHarrier;5552010]
Popcorn anyone? Ok, well I will take one (or two) for the team and share my recent experience with the good ole boy. Ahhh, where does one start?
I did the lovely deed and purchased two horses from “William” from Mallard Springs. For those of you wondering, it doesn’t take a CSI detective to figure out he’s from Old Orchard and he’s really the old school Thomson… cute name he chose to switch to, eh? Now, I know some of you are going to jump on me and say “BUT HOW ARE YOU SURE?!?”… go look at both websites, the videos and his overall style of writing… I personally like his “CONGRATULATIONS” trash- don’t patronize me. Perhaps his Beethoven background music in his videos help him feel a bit more legit or fancy if you will.
Long story short, “William” wouldn’t hold for a vetting so I figured, ok, fine, I’ll buy them and they aren’t very expensive so we will see what we can do. You can usually fix poor training with time. I saw pictures and videos of legs and the horse in general and thought- they look fine. Both had a cute jump and relatively attractive in many aspects- why not take a chance?
Well, shipper picked up the horses in SC, called me on his way home and said "Hey! Who did you rescue?.. " I thought, Ha. Ha. Funny, okay, what do you need? Well, no joke, I paid for two rescue horses- which I’ve now come to terms with. The shipper said there wasn’t any hay to be found on the farm so these two trailered the ENTIRE 10+ hr trip without hay… Even after I told “William” I would pay for two bales. I asked for the horses to be pillow wrapped- said I’d pay for that too. He agreed and said it would “not be a problem!!!” They were not…
The horses each had over 30 plus ticks on them, welts oozing all over their bodies, the chestnut’s teeth are so horrid that his tongue is lacerated, their hooves are an utter mess… very quiet, sweet and hungry though. They are hanging out for portions of the day in our grass fields and happy as can be.
Lastly, my favorite part of his last correspondence with me was when he pulled in the “puppy mill” approach. “If you dont like them. Just ship them back to me, and I will be happy to sell them for you, for the price that you paid, according to the terms of my consignment program. Or if you see two other horses on the web site that you like… I will be happy to trade them. The only horse that can not be traded is TatabraLulu. She is not mine…She is consigned, and not be traded.” … Oh William, yes, if only I could have the luxury of sending them to your lovely sales barn.
I have posted pictures on Flickr of what I thought I purchased and what came off of the trailer. I’m shocked and appalled. I have been exchanging interesting emails with this naughty William. Oh and he’s a Christian? Bestow my heart. No worries, I’m on this one like white on rice.
Here is the link to the photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/61855169@N05/sets/72157626520999840/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/61855169@N05/sets/72157626520970358/
… A little more cow bell.[/QUOTE]
This is absolutely sickening. I can not believe the condition of these horses- unacceptable. I wish you all of the luck.
[QUOTE=mroades;5553917]
My thoughts on that…hope he owned it legally to sell it to you…[/QUOTE]
Agreed! …And there are never any guarantees, and so much fraud in this industry. This is why having thorough purchase contracts, etc. are so important with any sale, which we fortunately had. Then down the road should any questions arise, there is documentation of everything said and done to defend/take action on as needed. :yes:
For the most part we sell VERY reasonably priced horses. Our horses are as represented with current vet, farrier care and healthy and in good weight! People like this person in SC give people like me a “badname” as everyone thinks if the hors eis reasonably priced it must be like what people have experienced with this fellow. Yes, buying horses “site unseen” is a crap shoot. But when people buy from me like that (dont do a lot of those type of sales, but occasionally), they are always very pleased with what arrives!
[QUOTE=shawneeAcres;5553784]
I will say only one thing (I posted on other threads about this shyster). I got a phone call from him back in February, I was at a show showing and he informed me that either I pull all my comments off of COTH or he was suing me for slander!! He said he didn’t even know who I was and had never had business dealings with me (umm…WRONG!!) Of course I hung up on him and it is now over two months later and haven’t been served with any lawsuits![/QUOTE]
I got the same phone call…
[QUOTE=chrissymack;5553893]
As we recently purchased a horse from MSF, I’ll add my two cents worth from our experience…<zipping up flame suit>:
We came across a horse we thought was cute, and decided to purchase, sight unseen (just photos and video), w/o vet check due to the cheap price of the horse. No claims were made of paperwork or bloodlines, other than Old/TB cross.
“William” was initially self-entitled, tight lipped and opinionated (like a ton of others we all know in the industry), but after discussion spoke at length about the horse, was willing to ship the horse to a bigger pick up location at no charge, didn’t charge for board between purchase and shipping, got the coggins/health papers done for us, and offered to put shoes all around for the trip. He told me on shipping day the farrier hadn’t been able to make it out, and apologized. Take from that what you may.
The horse arrived underweight (slightly more so than we’d seen in the video, but not surprising considering what the video had shown), with dull winter coat & shaggy mane, far overdue for farrier trim/shaping, and footsore. His feet had many splits/breaks and fever lines on them as well, and he did not appear to have had teeth done recently.
THIS BEING SAID, it is nearly exactly what we expected, buying a horse so inexpensively without paperwork without seeing it in person. We could have flown there to see him in person, we elected not to and take that risk. We could have had him vet checked before shipping, rather than waiting until the horse got here to have our own vet do a check. We elected not to and take that risk. For us, it was a gamble we were OK with taking to give the horse a good home and let it come what may.
Although this is not how we keep our horses, and have promptly clipped him/wormed him/pulled mane/trimmed his feet/began putting weight and grooming to put a great bloom on him…it has not taken much to start him onto the path to good health to our standards, and in another month or so will be shining, fat(ter) and happy alongside our show horses.
The horse is young, a little nervous around people but sweet as can be when you work slowly around him, and has an absolute puppy dog personality. He is smart and a quick learner, figured out lunging with voice commands in one session…He had never been sat on before, and was the absolute easiest horse to start we’ve ever worked with. Not a moment of any silly behavior under saddle from him, he is brave, sweet, eager to please and kind. NO spook, on his 2nd time under saddle he was already hacking around our property out of the ring. Within a handful of rides beyond, he was cantering quietly and even went over a small crossrail. For all those reasons we are more than pleased with the result of our purchase, despite any disappointment in prior care.
If he was then in the condition he now is, under our care and training, the horse would be priced substantially higher, and reasonably so.
I’m not at all disagreeing with those who may feel concern about questionable history of horses while at MSF (or for all I know, prior to then), and for that can see cause for possible investigation/concern/action to learn more as you feel personally compelled…BUT I think as a buyer you have to be a little realistic and have due diligence; for me to be upset at the condition of a horse I elected to purchase for a very low price that already showed to be thin in videos without going to see it to verify what it looks like and without doing a prior vet check seems naive…and I’m not. We went into the purchase prepared to take a risk on it, knowing that we could provide a fantastic better home for what looked to be a sweet horse, and if it worked out to be nice enough to work with, ride and make something of, even better.
…just my own thoughts and experience in the matter, take from it whatever you find helpful. :)[/QUOTE]
I am glad that you are pleased with the animal and YOUR transaction with MSF or Old Orchard - whatever the affiliation may be. Let me just start by saying that the disposition of the animals are certainly not in question here. The fact that he sold us a horse (in good faith) that has FOUNDERED and walks crippled off the trailer, yet in the description of the animal it stated he is sound and UTD on vet/farrier/de-worming etc is misrepresentation. I don’t know if you’ve seen the pictures of these horses but I suggest you take a look. We have spent over 8 thousand dollars for these horses. I don’t know any professional that would sell a horse for this amount of money that is clearly malnourished, oh and lets not forget the whole laminitis issue…almost forgot. There is no doubt in my mind that Mr. Moore HAS sold horses that have probably been taken care of for a certain period of time, but my inkling is that if they stay too long, or if the funds aren’t there, they don’t get fed or cared for. Our shipper waited for over an hour at MSF and painted a disturbing picture of the horses and living conditions provided. There was NOT A BALE of hay to be found anywhere - a little offputting. My farm deals with many giveaways, if you will, from Charlestown Racetrack, and NEVER have we had a horse come in so unhealthy and frankly mistreated. We have had horses in the past with health/soundness issues and the information is always disclosed with the buyer PRIOR to purchasing the animal. Price should reflect conformation, disposition, and training level - not health, and if that is the case (given this is his livelihood and reputation on the line) than that should be fully disclosed. As a professional myself we should all be striving for the same standard - THIS is in no way professional or standard that we should be upholding. I understand there are different strokes for different folks, however, there is no excuse (or tolerance) for neglect.
Again, I am incredibly happy that your experience has turned out ok. Unfortunately, we are not so pleased and neither is the chesnut that foundered at least four months ago, went without treatment or relief, and is hobbling around with his coffin bone penetrating his sole. I am not here to drag anyone through the mud - just stating facts and my loss of “faith” in this industry.
I don’t want this to be all dark and gloomy. On the bright side, the horses are safe, eating, drinking, and getting the TLC they need and deserve. They are on there way to being happy, healthy animals with a bright future!
Tupelo Stables
www.tupelostables.com
Unfortunately for many, “sight unseen” seems to be the only way this guy does business. When he was in Anderson, not only did I make numerous calls to go see horses, but I know at least 2 others that did the same. All attempts failed.
Apparently if you want someone to actually examine the horse, there are all sorts of problems! Imagine that! I also wonder why a barn in Greenwood only has vets in Aiken listed as contacts. I don’t know many vets willing to travel that far for a PPE, but maybe that’s the idea.
This is definietly a buyer beware situation. I know of a horse that he had for sale that was known around here to be dangerous. He was a $$$$$$$ horse that was a beautiful mover, but even the best trainers in the area weren’t willing to work with him. He was advertised on the Old Orchard website as a ‘husband horse’… and sold out of state, as usual. I’m glad that your situations have at least been with horses with good dispositions, but I want others to be aware that this may not always be the case.
Yeah, its wierd that no one local has the “glowing recommendation” for their purchases…
I noticed the Aiken vets too…
[QUOTE=chrissymack;5553893]
As we recently purchased a horse from MSF, I’ll add my two cents worth from our experience…<zipping up flame suit>:
We came across a horse we thought was cute, and decided to purchase, sight unseen (just photos and video), w/o vet check due to the cheap price of the horse. No claims were made of breeding paperwork or bloodlines, other than Old/TB cross.
“William” was initially self-entitled, tight lipped and opinionated (like a ton of others we all know in the industry), but after discussion spoke at length about the horse, was willing to ship the horse to a bigger pick up location at no charge, didn’t charge for board between purchase and shipping, got the coggins/health papers done for us, and offered to put shoes all around for the trip. He told me on shipping day the farrier hadn’t been able to make it out, and apologized. Take from that what you may. He shipped with hay and a brand new nice halter.
The horse arrived underweight (slightly more so than we’d seen in the video, but not surprising considering what the video had shown), with dull winter coat (no welts/ticks, fortunately!) & shaggy mane, far overdue for farrier trim/shaping, and footsore. His feet had many splits/breaks and fever lines on them as well, and he did not appear to have had teeth done recently.
THIS BEING SAID, it is nearly exactly what we expected, buying a horse so inexpensively without paperwork without seeing it in person. We could have flown there to see him in person, we elected not to and take that risk. We were given the opportunity, and could have had him vet checked before shipping, rather than waiting until the horse got here to have our own vet do a check. We elected not to and take that risk. For us, it was a gamble we were OK with taking to give the horse a good home and let it come what may.
Although this is not how we keep our horses, and have promptly clipped him/wormed him/pulled mane/trimmed his feet/began putting weight and grooming to put a great bloom on him…it has not taken much to start him onto the path to good health to our standards, and in another month or so will be shining, fat(ter) and happy alongside our show horses.
The horse is young, a little nervous around people but sweet as can be when you work slowly around him, and has an absolute puppy dog personality. He is smart and a quick learner, figured out lunging with voice commands in one session…He had never been sat on before, and was the absolute easiest horse to start we’ve ever worked with. Not a moment of any silly behavior under saddle from him, he is brave, sweet, eager to please and kind. NO spook, on his 2nd time under saddle he was already hacking around our property out of the ring. Within a handful of rides beyond, he was cantering quietly and even went over a small crossrail. For all those reasons we are more than pleased with the result of our purchase, despite any disappointment in prior care.
If he was then in the condition he now is, under our care and training, the horse would be priced substantially higher, and reasonably so.
I’m not at all disagreeing with those who may feel concern about questionable history of horses while at MSF (or for all I know, prior to then as well), and for that can see cause for possible investigation/concern/action to learn more as you feel personally compelled…BUT I think as a buyer you have to be a little realistic and have due diligence; for me to be upset at the condition of a horse I elected to purchase for a very low price that already showed to be thin in videos without going to see it to verify what it looks like and without doing a prior vet check seems naive…and I’m not. We went into the purchase prepared to take a risk on it, knowing that we could provide a fantastic better home for what looked to be a sweet horse, and if it worked out to be nice enough to work with, ride and make something of, even better.
…just my own thoughts and experience in the matter, take from it whatever you find helpful. :)[/QUOTE]
It could have been as simple as TheHarrier’s horses were at MSF longer than your’s, which I presume to be “Abercrombie”. I don’t think that because you’re buying a horse between $3-5K that they should be in any lesser condition that a horse selling for double or any amount for that reason, especially from a sales barn. Isn’t that their job? Super skinny and feet like that are inexcusable.
[QUOTE=HannoMerci;5554153]
It could have been as simple as TheHarrier’s horses were at MSF longer than your’s, which I presume to be “Abercrombie”. I don’t think that because you’re buying a horse between $3-5K that they should be in any lesser condition that a horse selling for double or any amount for that reason, especially from a sales barn. Isn’t that their job? Super skinny and feet like that are inexcusable.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I don’t at all disagree, I wasn’t meaning that it’s acceptable, just that it’s the risk you take buying a horse without seeing it firsthand. I completely understand TheHarrier’s shock and frustration, especially after seeing her photos. I think we were just lucky to have ended up with one in the comparatively moderate condition he was in, despite.
