Man Charged for Allowing Dog to Kill Raccoon

[kkindley]

[QUOTE=altjaeger;5423981]
Of course, it’s possible the video will show that the young man released the raccoon into his garage from a live trap his father (or he) had brought home, specifically to see the hound attack it. That would, then, be equivalent to cockfighting or dogfighting.[/QUOTE]

I don’t think the small area of the garage shoul have an impact, because coons are smart and will use that. They will sit on their butts in a corner and grab at a dog coming in at them, and guard themselves. Out in the open they are much more vulnerable. So a small area, will lend itself to it taking longer for the dog to dispatch of the coon. But I do agree that if he brought it home, released it into the garage specifically for this situation, than he’s an idiot and a black mark for us all. However, if it was already there, and the dog was an experienced “kill dog” than I see no problem, because as I said earlier, advantage raccoon in that situation

and by kill dog, I mean a dog that knows how to quickly and efficently dispatch an animal. I would never shoot out a coon to my young dogs, without an older dog there because they will often bail out of the tree to fight and I 1. didn’t want my young dog torn up and 2. the older, more experienced dog will “teach” the young dog how it’s done. Young dogs tend to grab the hind end to avoid teeth and claws. They only got coons shot out to them alone once they demonstrated that they could quickly and efficently finish the job.

kdow~ Yes, for most dogs, they will go after it, especially if they have any kind of sporting dog in them (This includes standard poodles!! :eek: ) Unfortunately, most dogs don’t know “how” to kill quickly, especially an animal like a coon that puts up a tough fight. FWIW, cats are probably the worst animal for your dog to get into a tussle with, those things get ugly!! An average dog will leave it alone if you hollar at it, etc, and if they have any obedience.

[kdow]

[QUOTE=kkindley;5424046]
kdow~ Yes, for most dogs, they will go after it, especially if they have any kind of sporting dog in them (This includes standard poodles!! :eek: ) Unfortunately, most dogs don’t know “how” to kill quickly, especially an animal like a coon that puts up a tough fight. FWIW, cats are probably the worst animal for your dog to get into a tussle with, those things get ugly!! An average dog will leave it alone if you hollar at it, etc, and if they have any obedience.[/QUOTE]

I can’t picture our Cocker Spaniel going after anything coon-sized, but she’s a pretty smart cookie. (As in, she’d look at it, go ‘that thing is as big as I am’ and probably just bark from a safe distance. )

Neither of our dogs bother cats at all, luckily. And they do know to leave things and come away when called - the situation with the coon and Pirate was unique just because we came on it so suddenly. I was just surprised by the way Pirate went RIGHT in there. No sizing it up first or anything. :eek:

(For all I know he’s had fights with them before or someone tried to hunt with him or something, though - he was 5 when I got him.)

[vacation1]

I’m very respectful of raccoons and would not want a dog I loved to get into a ‘fight’ with one, because I’d be afraid the coon would win. They get big and nasty; I’ve had them just stop and look right at me, as fearless and bold as a hawk. But I think people are jumping to conclusions when they link this case to the (cough) paranoia that we’re all threatened by cidiots tryin’ to kill off Real America with the help of PETA. What it sounds like is a 3 immature teens (oldest was 23, but clearly not particularly mature, as his defense consists of saying that everyone HE knows thinks the whole thing is stupid) encouraging and/or allowing a dog to harass and kill a young, cornered wild animal while taping the killing for their amusement. That’s just nasty.

And comparing it to foxhunting is silly. Do people hunt because they’re hoping to see the hounds catch and kill a fox? You can argue that foxhunting, as an activity that creates a situation which heightens the chances of harassing and killing an animal, is immoral. I’m not making that argument, but it clearly is one people do make. But it’s no more identical to animal-baiting than horse racing is morally equivalent to dog fighting. And the whole argument that “Yeah, but PETA will say that it is and then they’ll come for our kittens and waaaaaahhhh!” is also silly. Of course many activists make inflated claims to win emotional support for their cause; making similarly inflated claims is not the way to fight back.

[kdow]

[QUOTE=vacation1;5424117]
And the whole argument that “Yeah, but PETA will say that it is and then they’ll come for our kittens and waaaaaahhhh!” is also silly. Of course many activists make inflated claims to win emotional support for their cause; making similarly inflated claims is not the way to fight back.[/QUOTE]

My personal concern would be that automatically taking the “anti-PETA” side in situations like this could actually backfire if it turns out that the person in question really was doing something that no one - including hunters - thinks is okay. Like I said in another post - most of the hunters I’ve talked to actually have a fair amount of respect for nature and wildlife, even the animals that they hunt. That’s a VERY different position and attitude from someone who does thinks like cockfighting or dogfights, and I think for hunting to keep any kind of good public image, it’s necessary to be very careful about not getting associated with folks who do those things just because the knee jerk reaction is to go “PETA sucks.”

(Note: I agree that PETA does suck. Even one of my hardcore vegan classmates will agree that PETA is full of crazy people, and I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t kill an animal for food if his life depended on it - he’d be trying to figure out how to make bark a nutritionally viable food source or something.)

[kkindley]

@vacation1;5424117

What it sounds like is a 3 immature teens (oldest was 23, but clearly not particularly mature, as his defense consists of saying that everyone HE knows thinks the whole thing is stupid) encouraging and/or allowing a dog to harass and kill a young, cornered wild animal while taping the killing for their amusement. That’s just nasty.

Anytime ANYTHING that ANYONE could deem as inappropriate is taped, with someone yelling encouragement, it’s gonna turn out bad. That’s when it crosses the line. Regardless of intent, reality, etc. The unfamiliar public is not going to take it well. End of story. An animal fight is NEVER attractive, like others have said, even a cat killing a mouse. Heck, most barn cats are well fed and will toy with a mouse instead of straight out killing it. Tape that and post it on you tube and I guarantee it will cause a stink. Bottom line is this shouldn’t have been recorded and made public.

[CarrieK]

[QUOTE=altjaeger;5423981]
I think the mistake here is that we want to discourage sadistic INTENT, but the law as written is outlawing BEHAVIOR. If you have some barn cats to keep down your mouse population, your guilty of violating this law in Michigan,[/QUOTE]

Not guilty. Cats kill from instinct and not from training. A cat playing with the mouse before killing it is not the same as–to parallel the case in point–a human encouraging the cat to play with the mouse before killing it. Even if the owner bought the cat specifically to keep control rodents, there is no parallel because the owner is not encouraging–and not taping for viewing–the cat to torture, as it were, the mouse.

or, if you are not, then why is this young man guilty of anything?

The prosecutor believes that the intent was to torture the animal, resultant behavior of the dog and the taping of the incident were to facilitate that torture and render it as entertainment not to merely rid the premises of the racoon.

[wireweiners]

Why do these dumbass kids think that everything they do must be videoed and put on Youtube or Facebook? I have busted more people in court for putting stupid things on their Facebook page.

Personally, I would not sic my heeler on a coon in an enclosed area because a coon can do major damage to a dog and a heeler, whle tough, is not a particularly big dog. There have been a couple of occasions where the catahoulas and my pit cross have caught coons out in the open. In those instances, I don’t think the coon knew what hit it.