Horses were bred about 5000 years ago for food and milk
http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?groupid=1817&HistoryID=ab57>rack=pthc
Before that, the Mayans already had chi type dogs, as pets, for their sacrificial ceremonies and for the pot.
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I can see what you mean by dogs being selectively bred to contain certain personalities/characteristics to suit individual owners and their lifestyles. Those dogs that you’ve mentioned that aren’t or haven’t been selectively bred to live in urban areas and to be contained in a fenced yard/inside a house can be/have been and are tamed/trained to do so successfully without it being abusive. These dogs have adapted to urban living and as long as they are cared for properly, live long healthy and happy lives.
Horses have been selectively bred to fit into different areas of work, their physical/mental characteristics have been changed/modified to enable certain performances. Except for the smaller breeds of horses, no horse has been specifically bred physically/mentally to be held in a stable/stall for long periods of time, nor have they been specifically bred to be held in a small paddock or field. They can be tamed/trained to do so and many do because they are forced to adapt.
I maintain my opinion that your theory is wrong and your belief is quite hypocritical.
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Speaking rock is now an entertainment center with a bar, and live music. They’ve been fighting to get it allowed to be a casino again for years.
cocktail fighting is illegal in tx, so I can’t see that ever being permitted here. Although there is illegal cockfighting that takes place elsewhere nearby.
Boxers don’t routinely die after their fights, and they choose to box.
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I believe that state laws pretty much don’t apply on indian reservation lands… they are their own entity.
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Yes, Indian reservations, of officially recognized tribes don’t follow U.S. or state laws. That’s why the El Paso tribe sued in federal court, and has been recognized. However, the last I heard the other tribes still don’t recognize them.
jetsmom-I still remember the commercials from when I lived near there. I moved in 1997. I totally hated the song on the commercial, and I guess that’s why I still remember it.
How can you compare boxing to dog fighting? Yes, it’s a violent sport and we reward for violence, but boxers have a choice.
If we were gathering up homeless people and children on the streets and letting boxers beat them to death, or if we forced people to box for their next meal it might be the same.
Suggesting that they are the same shows a general misunderstanding about free choice.
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Boxing, dog and cock fighting all exist for human entertainment and have roots that go as far back as Greek and Roman games. The highest goal of boxing is a knockout, and that is beating another human to insensibility. Do you ever wonder why boxers are usually from the Under Class? How free is their choice?
The ability to keep horses in confined spaces was bred into them thousands of years ago. They were molded for human needs so long ago in that respect that we have forgotten that we’ve done it.
Dog fighting has been underclass and upperclass. Michael Vick only exposed it as entrenched with someone who was successful and a public figure but plenty of wealthy men also bred the dogs to fight - this lists and advertises the bloodlines to this day: http://pitbulldogpuppiesforsale.com/pit-bull-bloodline/
and this book was published in the 90s: https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Gamedog-Breeding-Raising-American/dp/B0006F7C3W
Its very much like the wink and nod from some pitbull rescue where on one side of their mouth they brag they rescued a pitbull and then from the other they claim that no one can prove its a pitbull.
People have a fascination with things that fight and gamble on it. That is no going to go away. That is the only comparison to boxing.
I’m not worried about people who box using their skills on the street and randomly beating people who happen to walk by…
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Dogs and horses are sensitive to their owners psychological states. And I wonder when some on-leash aggressive/dominant dogs react, as some do to other off-leash dogs, if the leashed dog isn’t reflecting the owner’s state of mind at that time.
When an off-leash dog challenged me and my dog, I remained calm and didn’t react. Neither did my dog. The challenging dog did bite two people and chose not to bite me nor attack my dog.
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Nope. You still can’t say that poor men are forced to box. It is not a fair analogy and does not in any way justify dog fighting. Human boxers still have free choice. They aren’t picked up from homeless shelters and then dumped on the streets when they lose a fight. They also box because they earn an income from it or see it as a way to sustain their lifestyle.
Dogs don’t have free will, and no matter how much you try to prove that people don’t, the fact will always be that every person has more free will than an animal.
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You’re grasping at straws that don’t exist.
All adult humans have free will/free choice. Whether they choose to exercise it is another matter.
If a horse was “bred” to accept being in confined spaces there would be no kicking of walls, no weaving, etc…, they would be your dog definition of a “stall couch potato”. Horses are tamed and forced to accept being in confined spaces, it isn’t bred into them. Foals are conditioned when they are born to accept being in a stall with their mum.
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Weaving , kicking, cribbing doesn’t necessarily come from being in confined spaces. It can often be anxiety from how it is being trained mixed with a propensity (which can be genetics) to the behavior.
And you know this how?
I think that stall bound horses are also being kept in a situation that is very close to cruel unless they are worked so hard they don’t need additional exercise. But horses who get turnout in pastures and paddocks are simply being kept as they were bred to be kept.
Unless you argue that they have been brainwashed, I would mention that whenever my horses have escaped their pastures, they always return to the barn within hours, if not minutes. If they were so miserable, they would celebrate their freedom by putting miles between them and the barn.
Dogs, on the other hand, that escape, often just disappear. They go feral quite easily. Horses don’t.
Humans have not been bred for a sedentary life, and lack of exercise is has caused much modern human illness.
This thread has devolved into a bizarre debate.
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It has and I’d like to learn how the old boy is doing.
I have been unable to find an update on the story. Honestly, I’m not sure how he could have survived at his age and health at the time of the attack.
http://abc7.com/news/76-year-old-victim-of-pit-pull-attack-in-lincoln-heights-dies/1777891/
Valentine Herrera has died. He and his dog, Dodger, were attacked on Thursday, February 2, 2017. Dodger died at the scene. Herrera died on Monday, February 27, 2017. He was hospitalized in grave condition for those 3+ weeks. His family’s GoFundMe site reads:
As the weeks have gone by, my grandfather has shown no signs of progress, so now after about 3 weeks of being in the hospital the doctors have told us that his brain is no longer functioning.
The pit bulls which directly killed this man and his dog, as well as another dog in the neighborhood days before this attack, were seized by the Los Angeles County Department of Animal Care and Control. I think they were euthanized.
The pit bulls’ owners, who indirectly killed this man and his dog as well as another dog in the neighborhood days before the attack, have not been charged with any crime and have not even been cited for the minor offenses like loose dog. They have not even been named publicly; their privacy has been protected by both law enforcement and the media. They are evidently known to Herrera’s neighbors, who are quoted in news stories talking about the pit bulls behavior prior to the attack, and to authorities, but their name has never been reported – the closest the media came was to talk to an unnamed “disabled woman” who described the killers as guard dogs for fruit trees. I sincerely hope that the reason for the lack of action toward this pit bull owner is authorities being cautious due to pending charges.
Herrera is the third person killed by a dog in the US this year. Two were killed by pit bulls, 1 was killed by a German Shepherd mix. Herrera is the 9[SUP]th[/SUP] person killed by a dog in the US in the past 6 months. 5 were killed by pit bulls, 2 were killed by a German Shepherd type – 1 GSD mix, 1 Malinois, 1 was killed by a Doberman mix, and 1 dog’s breed/mix/appearance is unknown.
Two of the fatal attacks on humans by dogs began as dog attacks on other dogs. One was the Malinois, the other was these pit bulls. It’s often claimed that “dog aggression” is a distinct issue from "people aggression."The claim may have merit in theory, but falls apart in practice. Too many people have been mauled and/or killed by dogs because they tried to save their pet from a brutal, murderous attack. These people are often described as having made a ‘mistake’ when they ‘reached in’ to a ‘fight.’ There was no fight. They saw their pet being butchered and had the courage to intervene. Mr. Herrera lay down his life for his friend, and again, I hope very much there are charges being planned for the people who created the circumstances in which an elderly man walking a small dog on a city street was faced with the decision to leave his dog to be savaged, or try to save him.
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Amen. It’s bullshit. And the pit bull fanatics don’t care. All they care about is pit bulls. They don’t care about any other dogs or people. Only pit bulls matter. Our love for our beloved pets is trivial to them. They scoff at our devotion to our companions. To them, that love and commitment is nothing, worth not a damn thing. So long as pit bulls are safe, every other dog, and human, can go to hell.
That attitude is crap and I’m sick of it.
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