o-m-g - now 9/11 is brought into this, I can officially say this thread has flown off its tracks and into “crazy train” territory.
because somehow, reports of a national tragedy are comparable to media reports of sensationalizing Pitbull types.
(for the record, I think this is a new age for COTH, being able to directly put GIFs into thread posts the way Internet Gods intended.)
you may officially call me mean now.
Good grief–snark? Ignorance? Oh brother.
Checking with hospitals about the breed responsible is probably a waste of time because medical personnel blame the breed named by the victim. That’s how we got away with were wolf inFrench.
That is so true rubles, misidentifying dogs is what was found in the research on BSLs.
beowulf, I feel CT’s use of 9/11 is a reportable offense. There are lines you just do not cross.
Hello Khal
i’m not for nor against pit bulls I just love dogs and dislike seeing them maligned and all tarred by the same brush.
If one looks for trouble they’ll find it.
I admire the help you offer pit bulls. Well done. With so many living in apartments and condos youngsters do not It get the exposure they need. I’ve encountered fearful parents and seen the effect they have on their children and it’s really too bad. And who loses out? The dogs of course.
Quick, a safe space! Someone mentioned 9/11! Trigger warning!
How is this different from sswor’s saying she declines to go through another round of Link Wars 2017 with you? I refer to your crack that her refusal translates as an admission of ignorance and lack of an argument. Why does this flat rejection of anything sswor says deserve to be considered a reasoned, articulate argument for your opinion and not merely the same exact admission?
It’s often less than convincing when your claim to be not-mean is conveyed in a manner best described as mean. As in the “teaching moment” crack, which is not a very nice way to speak to a child, and when used toward another adult simply because there is a disagreement between you is a style which makes a certain descriptive word float through one’s mind. For many, that word is “mean” but there are others. [edit]
But enough insults. How about the supposed victims/beneficiaries of all this emotion, the pit bulls?
Every single pit bull euthanized because no one will take it home is a pit bull which has been euthanized for aggression – if not the individual animal’s actual, documented behavior, then for the breed’s long, violent, deadly record. The reason every single person who walked through that shelter said “No thanks” when presented with that pit bull - despite the good chance that it was offered to them for a low price, despite the fact that it was likely a nice size at around 45lbs and despite the fact it’s clearly a wash-and-go shorthaired coat which most people prefer, and despite the fact that it and its 80 compatriots in the shelter offered a wide range of size, color and temperament in the same neat package – is that everyone knows the breed has a significant violence problem which does not exist in other breeds. This is just reality. And no amount of stringing feather boas around their necks and calling them “big babies” who “give kisses” is going to change that image. What changes the image is changing the reality. The fact that none of the people who claim to love “boxy-headed dogs” are willing to choose the dogs over their own freedom and financial considerations means pit bulls are doomed. They will kill their way back to permanent widespread banning, just as they did in the early 20th century, and we will go back to fighting about whose dog food is swill and whose was created by Native Americans in untouched meadows using eagle feathers.
I am not surprised by your attack vacation, but this: Quick, a safe space! Someone mentioned 9/11! Trigger warning! is even low for you. Also implying someone is a c*nt? Can you be any more disgusting? Using a national tragedy that kill thousands to get at someone on a chat board who disagrees with you and has poked holes in every “feeling” and belief about BSLs and pit bulls that you CT and Sswor brought to the table.
Sswor and CT both have admitted on this thread that they get their information about pit bull attacks from the news and dogsbite, that shows a complete lack of critical thinking and instead falling for the media brainwashing that has obviously worked so well in the 3 of you.
quote: everyone knows the breed has a significant violence problem which does not exist in other breeds.
Obviously there are many many who feel differently than you and Sswor and CT do. People who can look at the loads of information out there from dog behavior to identification to BSLs around the world and come to a very different decision than you 3 have.
Even Patrick Stewart understands that these dogs are just dogs, not slavering killers waiting to pounce on their next victim. Ginger looks real scary here.
https://www.facebook.com/patrickstewart/?fref=nf
Or maybe it’s because with a PB everything gets just a little bit more complicated than with any other dog. They are my breed of choice, yet for a long time the responsible thing for me to do was NOT to chose one. Not because I was or am afraid my dog will go out and maul someone, but because when I first moved here I was renting (what if I couldn’t find a place to live with my dog?), I was not sure whether I would have to move again for work (what if I had to move to an area with BSL?), many dog daycares / pet sitters don’t take them (for insurance reasons), many airlines have restrictions (I am from Europe, so this is a consideration for me), etc. etc.
With a PB, you have to consciously say “yes” and make the commitment to live with all the small and large incoveniences that come with the territory.
Khall, I think you need to calm down a bit and stop taking everything people are saying so far out of context, you have become quite accusatory. If you think I purposely said something to “get at you”, you need to step back and regroup.
I used the pictures/videos of 9/11 as an example because you said the media is anecdotal, so I chose an example to compare to the pictures and videos of pit bull attacks and what their victims and the scene looks like after the attack. You can no more dismiss the pit bull attack pictures/videos in the media than the pictures/videos of 9/11.
I have retrieved my information about pit bulls from many different sources, including reputable and professional. I’ve listened to biased and unbiased owners and sources. Because I read the news online does not make me brainwashed about pit bulls. You have poked no more holes in the BSL beliefs than others have poked holes in the anti-BSL beliefs. I refuse to go around in circles with the “prove it with a reputable source” dance with you because it has already been done to death in past pit bull threads.
You have become quite belligerent and I feel that my debate with you has come to an end.
Do you mean it gets more complicated because of their reputation?
Quote from CT: I used the pictures/videos of 9/11 as an example because you said the media is anecdotal, so I chose an example to compare to the pictures and videos of pit bull attacks and what their victims and the scene looks like after the attack. You can no more dismiss the pit bull attack pictures/videos in the media than the pictures/videos of 9/11.
CT first of all I am outraged that someone (you and vacation) would stoop so low as to use a national tragedy that has no bearing on our argument/discussion to back up your claims of news stories not being anecdotal. 9/11 was a tragedy where humans were killing humans, but it required INVESTIGATIONS to determine who those humans were and where they were from. You could not just look at those videos and say yes they were Muslim jihadists from this country (actually they were from several countries working for al queda as we now know). There is NO FREAKING WAY you can look at pictures and videos of these supposed “pit bull” attacks and say with %100 certainty that those dogs were “pit bulls” as I have explained over and over again and as the actual research has shown how often dogs are misidentified. (because of the media brainwashing) How what they look like often has no bearing whatsoever what their genetic makeup is when mixed breed dogs or dogs without breed papers are involved in dog bite fatalities. JAVMA 10 yr long study showed when dog breed could FACTUALLY be determined, there were 20 breeds and 2 mixed breeds involved in dog bite fatalities.
CT at least you did not imply I was a c*nt like vacation did, thank you for that.
Humans are the most dangerous animals on this planet, not any dog breed, lions, elephants etc etc. Just take a look at the murder rate, the animal abuse and killing, the child abuse, the domestic abuse. The list is long and makes me ashamed of our species. We are supposed to be the “intelligent” ones.
You are reading way too much into my comparison.
My comparison is…
Planes flew into buildings…pit bull/pit bull type attacked a person or other animal.
Obvious and undeniable evidence…end of.
Thousands thousands of planes rack up millions of miles without incident every year. When any plane crashes thorough investigations determine the cause. Safe flying is assumed and the accidents/crashes are fully investigated and a cause found. I doubt this occurs in dog attacks to the same degree.
The point is, obviously, that watching the news reports was enough to determine that planes crashed into buildings. We didn’t need to consult studies to determine whether it was a plane or a box truck or a go-cart.
If it bleeds it leads, that is rule of the media. If a foxhound mauled a child to death, it would be on the news. “The media” (as if it were a single, hive-minded entity) doesn’t care what breed sheds blood, they will happily cover it, regardless. The dachshund that ate the toes off the baby while it’s parents slept was covered in the news too. The media is not out to get the pit bull. Pits do a good job of making the headlines without any help from the nefarious “media”.
Anymore, many headlines in these fatal attacks simply say “dog”, and you must do your own leg work to determine breed/type. Remember the “border collie cross” involved in killing the child in Atlanta last month–lies to placate the pit lobby. It was just as likely a panda bear as a boarder collie. Thanks to Facebook/social media, many people post pics of their dogs and owners who’s dogs kill provide the online world with all the evidence needed to make a reasonable determination.
There was still an exhaustive investigation surrounding those incidents until everything was known about the perpetrators. Not so much when it comes to dogs.
Quote CT: Planes flew into buildings…pit bull/pit bull type attacked a person or other animal.
Obvious and undeniable evidence…end of.
In other words, I saw it on the TV and it MUST be true!!
CT I used your crass “comparison” and expanded on it, showing critical thinking and why research leads to expansion of those headlines that the media is so fond of. When the WTC was first hit, no one knew for a fact that it was deliberate. It was not until the second plane hit that it became obvious that it was intentional, but still we did not know until much later the bad actors in this case. But no, apparently my expansion on your comparison was TMI, again poking holes in your beliefs and “feelings”. You, Sswor and vacation cling desperately to your willful ignorance and bias against “pit bulls” because you see it on the TV. Funny thing is, I did not even jump into this thread until many pages later because I initially agreed with your, Sswor and all who were outraged on the cited attack. I am too. I agree the dogs in this attack need to be euthanized and the owners held liable both criminally and civilly. It was not until you CT brought up BSL that I jumped into the conversation because of all the information out there that shows the multitude of problems with the laws. Profiling based on looks does not get you less dog bite fatalities.
Sswor, media biased using “pit bulls” is well documented. Again, JAVMA shows in their 10 yr study, there were 20 breeds of dogs and 2 mixed breeds that could be FACTUALLY determined. Using news stories to determine the offending dog is not factual, but anecdotal. Only breed papers and DNA are factual evidence. Again your willful ignorance is showing.
Carry on, you two, I am waisting my time butting up against your bias and unwillingness to look at each dog as an individual and with objectivity.
I do not watch TV, khall.
Really all a report of a dog attack on TV shows for sure is that a dog attacked someone. To take the analogy of say a bombing on TV - when you see the pictures you know someone set a bomb - until there is an appropriate investigation you don’t know who the people who set the bomb were. Even if you see the people who set the bomb, you can’t tell by looking at them where they born, what their religion is or what their motivation was. Same with a dog attack - even if you see the dogs, you might suspect breeding but until that has been investigated you don’t know for certain. It is therefore anecdotal evidence, not scientific evidence…
I’m beginning to think this forum is trickier than Current Events!
I haven’t watched cable television since 2002.
Any pictures or videos I see are online.
Thank you…some common sense at last!
In every picture or video I have seen that shows a pit bull attacking, there is absolutely no mistaking that it’s a pit bull or pit bull type.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
