That’s just *** ridiculous. She failed to properly contain her dogs which caused severe injuries to her neighbor. There should be both criminal charges and substantial financial penalty.
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Not everyone is capable of training well and not every dog takes to training like a dream. Different breeds have different focus and even within those breeds, trainers shift, bounce and cull trying to find that “one”.
I’m all for basic obedience as a requirement but even in doing that you could see the range.
Neuter is not an issue for me unless it was a dog adopted out, rescued, breed reject - or it escapes and breeds another dogs. No oops allowed. Off with them. It has proven to be too attractive time and again to want to breed and distribute/ IMO, that’s where the neutering push began, and stopping neutering will only recreate the wheel.
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Just as you can’t reason with hurricane season, you can’t reason with pit bull dog owners. The dogs are bred with the instinct to kill. Some other large breeds are bred to retrieve or do other things, not to kill. If you love the pit bull, get a high and strong fence and keep the dog inside it. Get good obedience training from a professional who has trained the breed. Be a responsible owner and keep the pit bull away from children and the elderly and other animals unless you are present and have your dog on a leash. It’s not rocket science but common sense that if you have a dog trained to fight and kill, you act responsibly.
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I am not an advocate for the average pet owner to own intact animals. I do firmly believe it is healthier. I do think behavioral issues are more a product of a lack of training rather then hormonal drive. I am also strongly opposed to people breeding anything unless they have a very good reason. What I don’t like about BSL is that anyone thinks they have a right to dictate that I neuter my intact, working dogs. I will decide when and if that happens. Most people in North America already think they should spay and neuter anyways. Those that don’t are either well educated enthusiasts or typically, idiots. You can’t fix stupid though that is well established.
As I have said many times on this thread there are still people breeding Pitbull in Ontario.
I wouldn’t be sad if the breed became extinct. I consider myself an above average dog owner and I would never own one. I have known many that were awesome dogs but I don’t want one. My worry is that it becomes what many would like to see on this thread…the beginning of a long list of banned breeds with little justification. How anyone can compare the carnage inflicted by that breed to any other or even all the others combined blows my mind. Fake news, I know…
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Two thoughts:
A. I just adopted a retired racing greyhound. The adoption group did emphasize the good points of the breed (mostly house-trained, low maintenance, couch potatoes), but they were also honest about the drawbacks. They said “DO NOT LET YOUR GREYHOUND OFF THE LEASH IN AN UNFENCED AREA” in almost every way possible, that they do need coats in the winter, and they may never be as physically affectionate as a Lab or Golden. They were pretty clear about what kind of dog you were getting, so you could make an informed decision. All rescues need to be like that. You cannot minimize the potential drawbacks of the dog(s) in question, because that can lead to faulty assumptions and expectations, and end badly for all parties. While it was somewhat stressful at first with my girl, she has adjusted well and seems very happy here. I think a lot of that had to do with the fact that I had a good idea of what I was getting into.
B. I used to work at an open admissions animal shelter, and about half of the dogs that we got were at least part pit. The obviously dangerous ones never got put up for adoption. The ones who made it to the adoption floor could be roughly divided into 2 types: 1. the lovable loaf, and 2. the ones with Red Bull for blood. The lovable loafs were usually older and would nap all day if you let them. Totally laid back and sweet. The ones with Red Bull for blood were strong and hyper. They gave you the impression that they could do the entire Iditarod with a fully loaded sled by themselves. And were strong enough to overcome any collar, leash, or harness meant to make them easier to control. Those are the ones I felt like were at the higher risk to become biters/dangerous. They didn’t seem mean, but combine an under-exercised dog with the physical strength and innate characteristics of a pit-type dog, and you’ve got a real potential for problems.
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I’m not sure if we disagree or not sisus.
I mentioned the pit bull BSL that is very strict that includes culling, quite simply because they are the dogs that are causing the most harm and deaths while being extremely over-populated.
I mention BSL’s for other large and aggressive dogs simply because current dangerous dog laws are being fluffed off and not followed or enforced. If the current dangerous dog laws could be strictly enforced there would be no need to target any breed besides the pit bull.
If there were to be changes made to current or new dangerous dog laws I don’t think mandatory neutering of males should be enforced unless that dog has been deemed dangerous.
There is already a list of the most aggressive dogs and it isn’t difficult for anyone that knows dogs which of those dogs are capable of causing severe harm or death.
I said absolutely nothing about banning any breed other than the pit bull.
Who determines proper control?..anyone with actual common sense and good knowledge of dogs and of course the government of each jurisdiction.
Your stab at sarcasm at the end of your post was useless.
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As a responsible dobie owner you should never have difficulties with proper control of your dogs, so any BSL or strictly enforced dangerous dog law wouldn’t affect you. I have several aquaintances that are very responsible dobie owners and their dogs have never been put into a position where they could seriously harm or kill a person.
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She should be held totally accountable for not having her dogs properly restrained/contained.
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Yes, there is still pit bull breeding happening in Ontario…I reported one backyard breeder a few years ago. All of his dogs were confiscated and euthanized.
I do not want to see any other breeds than the pit bull/pit bull type banned. You cannot compare any other dog breed to the pit bull/pit bull type and the damage it causes, because there is no comparison. I adore the larger breeds, the shepherd being my absolute favourite and I’ve owned several.
What are these health issues that occur in spayed and neutered dogs? Unless they are catastrophic health hazards I’d rather see less breeding animals than more.
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I agree with this, except for the dent in my bank account I saw no problems.
I do believe an altered dog is much easier to deal with and train because they are much more relaxed, especially during heat cycles and breeding seasons.
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They are numerous and can include significantly higher incidence of hip dysplasia, cancers, thyroid conditions etc So I would say catastrophic yes. Growth plates remain open, dogs are abnormally tall, some will argue a predisposition to bad behavior (aggression), poor coat quality…the list goes on.
When I was a little kid my grandmother owned a chi. I hated that dog. It bite me so many times. I dont even know how I grew up liking dogs. Wouldnt own one no matter how nice the thing was. Ditto for most of the small dogs. Cant stand them. Big dogs, aggressive dogs, I have no problem with. Ive adopted a number in my life but the tiny ones, no thankS. You keep it.
Well imagine if your grandma had a big dog with the same attitude. You might not be here, or if you were here you might be missing half your face. I’m not trying to be nasty or rude, I simply want to point out how a small dog can be a wretched little bugger and everyone still lives, unlike the outcome with a big dog. Those dogs kill people.
I’ve been reading up on the health issues and I still think spay and neuter is the needed for all but the best breeders. But to each there own.
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Im sure this old gsd was a dream to train as a young dog. In fact I think he was overtrained. Never allowed to be just a dog.
that said, Ive adopted some very difficult dogs in my life, one esp, very aggressive toward humans and other dogs and as smart as they come. A brillant dog which just like in horses makes them difficult to train. But that dog I wouldnt trade for all the golden retrievers or labs in the world. He and the trainers I hired taught me so much about training and aggression. I keep reading about how there are so many great dogs waiting in shelters and people should just adopt them and all the marginal, damaged ones should just be euth. I say thats so much BS. theres lots of people like me with marginal dogs from rescue situations that have gone on to be cchampionship working dogs or just well trained dogs. Most people would never know the history of a well trained dog just by looking. But the anti pitbull, anti working dog breed hysteria does such a disservice to trained dogs. Thats what all of them should be promoting but heaven forbid we should train a dog.
So conclusive evidence via numerous studies that it shortens a dogs lifespan by means of a painful disease is not reason enough? I agree that only the best breeders should breed but I own a dog from one of the best breeders and 1 from an awful breeder (the rescue) and intend to keep them both intact for a long list of reasons. Breeding is not one of them.
All of these discussions come back to people. People are stupid and careless. Despite all the laws in the world people still do really stupid things and will continue to do so. There is always a degree of punishing the good in an effort to curb the bad but where do you draw the line? Education is always good but the dumbest of the dumb are the most impervious to education so that doesn’t help much since they are the bulk of the problem.
The suggestion that leans toward the banning of all large dogs is absurd. If a mentally ill person can still buy a gun at Walmart in the US I can’t see how any serious dog ownership related legislation will fly. But the big dog haters can dream I suppose.
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Partially true but at the same time, a neighbor owned a flock of guinea hens. I dont know if you know anything about guinea hens but they are the watchdog of the poultry parade and can be nasty. I use to have to navigate that flock when it was loose to go to school when I was little. When those birds would stretch up tall they could easily peck out an eye or do serious damage.
There are lots of animals that can seriously maim and kill. Humans esp.come to mind. They have quite a reputation for murder and mayhem everywhere. Very common, and in very large numbers, no matter what city or country, doesnt make any difference. So when some of you give examples of pitbulls killing or maiming a human, how many humans were murdered, assaulted, raped, etc in the same place and at same time? Far ,far,far more than any pitbull. But its the pitbull assault thats stirs up the hysteria, not all the murders and assaults on humans by humans. You almost never hear about those.
thats why I cant take some of this very seriously. Yes dogs should be licensed and vaccinated against rabies and it would be nice to require some elementary training for ownership but the bad human doesnt care about the laws for licensing a dog or a gun or keeping their hands to themselves. So the attack by the anti large dog mentality against everyone else, I have never understood. Doesnt add up.
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Pezk, - I can agree with what you posted for your personal self in making it a goal to work with and train these dogs, and your experience with that GSD.
However, I will not agree regarding the so-called anti-pitbull hysteria and anti-working dog hysteria.
The pitbull promotion machine is hysteria in itself \and people are injured and dying from it. The dogs attacking are not traumatized from fighting - many are now showing no history of that experience and were either bred separately or adopted.
As for anit-working dog - I’m not seeing this other than when people buy working dog breeds and think they can automatically adapt to residential while working during the day or kids that don’t care.
You have an incredible dog through schutzhund but not everyone can train to that level, nor should they entertain it if they are not truly dedicated. Another death this last year was through a police officer who purchased his dog when he moved, It escaped with his other dog, and attacking two neighbors and killing one - http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local/crime/article130371564.html
I’m all for training - but my flashback was to doing basic training with a kid who had a well bred lab. He couldn’t get it through basic training for years since it was too much dog for his ability. Huge, athletic and high strung with excellent papers. Not aggressive at first - but as each year went past, more so since it couldn’t tolerate a life of inactivity - simply too much dog for the kid.
Same family - sister was given a small golden that was the runt but was docile. No issues what so ever.
Goes back to what the poster above noted regarding pits observed in shelters. Many of these dogs were bred to be athletes with instincts toward what they were bred for, and assuming they will be a lovable loaf can be a dangerous assumption.
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Sorry. Rationalizing dog attacks since humans kill - nope. I don’t wish to live in third and old world situations with animals and wild dogs potentially killing people who are weak in the streets,
That leans to the type of rationalization, that my dog is more important than your existence and/or child and it will not end well.
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