Man fatally mauled, dog killed, by pit bulls on dog walk

[sisu27]

Rubles…BLAME THE OWNER OF THE ATTACKING DOGS. That is the only logical response IMO.

The fact that you say “so what if it is illegal for dogs to be off-leash” indicates you are an irresponsible dog owner or at best have never had to deal with an aggressive, loose dog menacing you or your dog.

There is a time and a place for certain dogs to be off-leash.

These stories never involve leashed dogs do they?

And CanadianTrotter I do understand what you are saying but the real root of the issue was that the attacking dogs were free. If the Pom was on leash or not shouldn’t matter.

[PDDT]

from Dr. Beckett: Good Lord. If I had to report every scratch that drew blood, I’d spend all day on the phone.

I didn’t say it was a practical law - just is what it is!

[Where_sMyWhite]

Rubles,

So what if it is illegal for dogs to be off leash. It still happens and I for one don’t mind seeing off-leash dogs accompanied by their owners. Nor do I believe off leash dogs are a menace.

All I gotta say is trying sitting in a wheelchair and feeling more than vulnerable anytime I see some other dog off leash, anywhere. The vast majority of dogs are under no voice control and the last one I saw didn’t even have a collar on.

Dog totally ignored teen’s requests to return, continued to come toward me to investigate my 2 leashed dogs who both ended up on my lap, one growling at the loose dog and teen acting like it was my fault for freaking out and I should just hurry up get and out of there. No apology included.

You put your happy little behind in a wheelchair, knowing you can’t get up and run or be able to physically separate dogs and see how you feel…

[rubles]

Off leash dogs

Are you CT implying I am an irresponsible dog owner because I’m not against some off-leash dogs accompanied by their owners?

[rubles]

Handicapped threat

Whether my a double s is in a wheelchair or not I am not afraid to be in the presence of off-leash dogs. Many other circumstances would scare the bejeebers out of me though were I in one and I understand your fear.
I grew up in an era when doors were opened and dogs let out on their own and learned how to assess the situation.
I’m appalled at some of the sentiments expressed here. But, each to their own.

[Gestalt]

[QUOTE=rubles;9039278]
Are you CT implying I am an irresponsible dog owner because I’m not against some off-leash dogs accompanied by their owners?[/QUOTE]

I know how you feel! I’m reading some of these posts and I just am not comprehending if what they wrote is how I’m interpreting them.

If I’m walking down the street and I see 10 poms off leash running around I would laugh, if they growled or snapped at me I’d still laugh. They’re poms for gawds sakes, get nasty with me and I’ll punt them into the next county. If I encounter 4 labs bouncing around me with their tongues hanging out and slobbering on my boots I would laugh. One pit bull with an aggressive stance? I’m looking for a weapon.

The mentality of the dog is the crucial issue. Some breeds of dogs just seem to have that attack mode in their brains.

[Where_sMyWhite]

Ok… and if those 10 cute, bouncing poms decide they want to investigate my leashed BT on my lap and he takes offense to it, I’m not thinking a small (both the fight and the dogs) dog fight in my lap sounds like much fun.

My power chair goes 4mph max… faster that most people walk but definitely much slower than most dogs run.

Not feeling the love for unleashed dogs, sorry. I don’t care what breed they are. If I see a loose dog looking or moving in my direction, I panic.

FWIW, I didn’t use to be near as afraid of loose dogs when I was more abled than I am now when I am limited on how I can keep me and my dogs safe.

[rubles]

I had a Tibetan Terrier. TT’s are not true terriers meaning they don’t run game to ground. They weigh around 20 pounds.
We were walking down our rural road when a male something or other breed made a challenge. Ears flat lips curled growling and showing all teeth.
TT was leashed and a very dominant bitch. Her behaviour, body language, became very non-threatening and looking away from menacing dog.
So I shook my shoulders, became submissive looked everywhere accept at the dog and stood still. After a minute or so dog’s dominating stance relaxed, we were not a threat to him nor trying to dominate him so I backed up putting distance between us and went home.
That was the only time in my life I felt a bonifide threat from any dog.
No, he shouldn’t have been loose and he did bite one or two people that I heard about.
For the most part I don’t fear off leash dogs and for the most part dogs get themselves in trouble because the don’t burn off enough energy.
And sometimes dogs get loose in spite of proper fencing and containment.
I’m just very sorry for that old man.

[cloudyandcallie]

Blaming the owner of a toy breed dog (or even a big dog from a gentle breed) for having his dog off leash and his dog getting torn apart by pit bulls and the man getting bitten to me is just like blaming a woman for wearing revealing clothing or drinking to much before being raped. (which happened in almost every rape I tried over 20 years.)

My cousin had a nippy chihuahua. Dog could not kill me although he nipped my legs.
My aunt’s friend had a nippy pekingese. Princess Margaret nipped me each time I washed her. Did not draw blood ever. Those dogs were not killers. My alley cats intimidated them. The little dogs never challenged our llewellyn setters or my aussies.

I do not understand the whole idea of owning killer dogs.
If you want to have killing power, buy guns. Then it’s up to you whether or not to shoot. Same macho feeling as having the beast who can kill for you. No loose guns running around the neighborhood attacking kids or animals or adults if the guns are locked up in your house or on your person. It’s all psychological. I’d rather people be more afraid of me than of my animals.

[rubles]

Gestalt,
Finally a sensible balanced opinion.
I do believe though some dogs are erroneously identified as pit bulls when they are not. They are not a breed that appeals to me even though I like their size and smooth coat. I’m not sure if they are true terriers or not.
Remember that football player that kept, bred and trained fighting dogs? Vick I think was his name was suspended and when he returned to football was cheered by the crowd in spite of his convection.
Talk about a basket of deplorables

[DrBeckett]

Actually, “pit bull” is not a breed. It is a look. There is no such thing as a purebred pit bull

[sisu27]

That’s not true DrBeckett…UKC recognized as American Pit Bull Terrier.

[vineyridge]

AKC has a breed called American Staffordshire Terrier that is almost identical to a pure Pit Bull Terrier. The dogs were bred to bait bear, bulls, other dogs, and probably other animals for human entertainment. In order to succeed they had to be fearless and aggressive.

Perhaps y’all didn’t know that there is/was an Afghan tradition that disputes between factions or tribes would be decided by a dog fight–I believe they used some form of mastiff. The dog fight was used in lieu of war.

[vineyridge]

AKC has a breed called American Staffordshire Terrier that is almost identical to a pure Pit Bull Terrier. The dogs were bred to bait bear, bulls, other dogs, and probably other animals for human entertainment. In order to succeed they had to be fearless and aggressive. The Amstaff was frequently described as a pit bull.

Perhaps y’all didn’t know that there is/was an Afghan tradition that disputes between factions or tribes could be decided by a dog fight–I believe they used some form of molosser. The dog fight was used in lieu of war.

[Garnet_Z]

The American Staffordshire Terrier is basically an offshoot of the American Pit Bull Terrier. Some individual dogs are actually dual registered as Am. Staffs with the AKC and APBTs with the UKC. There’s also another registry (American Dog Breeders Association, it’s basically for fighting dogs) that registers APBTs.

[CanadianTrotter]

[QUOTE=sisu27;9039030]
Rubles…BLAME THE OWNER OF THE ATTACKING DOGS. That is the only logical response IMO.

The fact that you say “so what if it is illegal for dogs to be off-leash” indicates you are an irresponsible dog owner or at best have never had to deal with an aggressive, loose dog menacing you or your dog.

There is a time and a place for certain dogs to be off-leash.

These stories never involve leashed dogs do they?

And CanadianTrotter I do understand what you are saying but the real root of the issue was that the attacking dogs were free. If the Pom was on leash or not shouldn’t matter.[/QUOTE]

I believe the man being interviewed in the video said the dogs were behind a fence and somehow got out. Or I may have read that somewhere, I can’t access the video anymore for some reason and I’m not sure which article I may have read it in if that is the case.

There is a time and a place for dogs to be off leash, that would be in a legal dog park or somewhere out in the country away from other dog walkers.

[CanadianTrotter]

[QUOTE=rubles;9039278]
Are you CT implying I am an irresponsible dog owner because I’m not against some off-leash dogs accompanied by their owners?[/QUOTE]

I’m not implying anything of the sort, where did I say that? I said…

The fact that you say “so what if it’s illegal?”, speaks volumes of irresponsible dog ownership.

[vacation1]

vineyridge: I’ve heard, but do not know if this is true, that a human should never become engaged in a dog fight. That the fighting dogs process human shouts and attempts to intervene as just another participant (maybe dog?) in the fight… I have never had a true dog fight inside my house. I have to think that the depth of ignorance of natural dog behavior in today’s urban society leads to totally unwarranted expectations.

Unfortunately, since the days when we were all told sternly “Don’t reach in or it’s your fault when you get bit!” we’ve had a huge population shift toward breeds which enjoy, relish and seek out opportunities to not “fight” with other dogs, but to attack, maul and kill them. So the totally unwarranted expectation we seem to have these days is that we can take our pet for a walk without engaging in a life-or-death struggle. Who can stand by watching a pit bull thrash their pet, knowing that this isn’t a tussle but a slaughter? The ignorance of dog behavior I see in all these kind of stories is the deep, willful ignorance of what constitutes normal dog behavior - sociability, elaborate patterns of body language to non-violently resolve confrontation, etc. Dogs are amazing at not being violent. It took massive effort to make a handful of breeds reliably violent enough that they didn’t need any provocation to engage forcefully with their own species with full, focused intent to kill.

[vacation1]

jherold: Oh that’s an easy one! Terriers, including pitts were origianally bred to kill vermin (or other dogs in the case of the pitt bulls). They were not bred to be human agressive. Unfortunately, irresponsible people decided that pitts would be great guard dogs and selected for dogs that had human aggression in addition to vermin aggression. They also did the same with other large guard breeds, but were not perhaps as successful. If you started selecting for human agressive airdales, you’d see similar problems develop. (Maybe not to the extent as they don’t have the same head shape and jaw strength, but their would be a rash of airdales attacks for sure).

Vermin aggression. I guess we should have seen it coming - we’ve spent 30 years smiling agreeably when pit bull owners said to our faces that pit bulls are “only” dog-aggressive. As if that’s cool. As if Bichons and Goldens and collies and spaniels and everything else just - don’t matter. As if it’s totally fine and acceptable if their dogs kill our dogs. And now our dogs are vermin. Awesome. Good to finally meet you, pit bull owners.

[Sswor]

[QUOTE=vacation1;9040181]
jherold: Oh that’s an easy one! Terriers, including pitts were origianally bred to kill vermin (or other dogs in the case of the pitt bulls). They were not bred to be human agressive. Unfortunately, irresponsible people decided that pitts would be great guard dogs and selected for dogs that had human aggression in addition to vermin aggression. They also did the same with other large guard breeds, but were not perhaps as successful. If you started selecting for human agressive airdales, you’d see similar problems develop. (Maybe not to the extent as they don’t have the same head shape and jaw strength, but their would be a rash of airdales attacks for sure).

Vermin aggression. I guess we should have seen it coming - we’ve spent 30 years smiling agreeably when pit bull owners said to our faces that pit bulls are “only” dog-aggressive. As if that’s cool. As if Bichons and Goldens and collies and spaniels and everything else just - don’t matter. As if it’s totally fine and acceptable if their dogs kill our dogs. And now our dogs are vermin. Awesome. Good to finally meet you, pit bull owners.[/QUOTE]

Amen, thank you. So wrapped up in defending killer dog breeds they condone the wanton killing of small dogs as collateral damage. It’s absolute madness.