Mare bred, declared empty but fails to show heat. Thoughts?

[kathrinef]

So I want to hear your thoughts and if you have experienced anything similar before. I have a mare, who we bred AI with cooled semen. She was bred last time at the 7th July, we could first check her at 21 days (because of the vet being on holiday), and he declared her empty. But she didn’t have any big new follicle at that point.
Since then I have waited for her to come back into heat, as she will REALLY show and voice her heat. But nothing. She has skipped 2 heats by now, with no sign of being in heat, even when teased by a stallion.
Last time we checked her, the vet found something “hidden” in her uterus, which could be a cyst or an embryo, but it was small for what you would expect at that time of an embryo. But we never saw that “cyst” before, and didn’t get a really good view of it either.

I was planning on doing a hormon treatment to get her back into heat back then, but didn’t since he found the “cyst” in hope she might be pregnant. But I don’t want to get my hopes up either. Have any of you guys been in the same situation? Any input would be much appreciated as I am going a bit nuts wondering if she is pregnant or empty :eek:

Additional info: She is 16 y o, swedish warmblood, sound repro system, had 2 foals as a young horse, till now been in the sport when I got her as a breeding mare. Bred to Diatendro

[MysticOakRanch]

You could always have her re-checked after 28 days - it is often easier to see once there is a heartbeat. I actually had that happen several years ago, TWICE, two different mares, two different vets. In one case, the vet said the mare had a “hemoraghic follicle” and toss her out in pasture, we’ll recheck her in the Spring and try to breed her then. In the Spring, she got REALLY FAT, yep, you know where this is going.

She had a big, strapping colt that I nicknamed Hemi (for Hemoraghic Follicle). He is showing 2nd level now, that silly follicle!

The other mare also had a foal, sadly the only foal we ever lost:( But I learned, vets do make mistakes. I actually asked the vet to re-check her a week later, and still came up empty?

If your vet isn’t an experienced repro vet, you might have someone else take a look that IS experienced. Don’t get your hopes up too much though, because it is late in the season, some of the mares cycles get screwy this time of year.

[red_mares]

I’ve heard of a few people who had mares checked not in foal, that had colts the year.

A mare a friend of mine owns just had a colt about a month ago. She was bred a couple times. Finally pasture bred & never checked in. Guy spent $$$ with KY vets, who missed the colt. Mare never came in season this past spring, and was tossed out in a field & got fat. Sound familiar?

I heard of someone else who sold a few broodmares that failed to get in foal - the new owners had lovely colts in the spring. I think there may have been some legal proceedings associated with that, as the horses would not have been offered for sale if they’d been in foal & it was multiple horses. A one-of thing you chalk up to bad luck; 3 or 4 is another story.

With my luck, the mare I just sold as barren will pop out a colt in the spring for the guy who bought her. (I really doubt it though)

[NancyM]

Sit and wait. She may be in foal. Listen to your horse over your veterinarian when it comes to pregnancy. It’s late now anyway. By spring, you will know one way or the other, and act accordingly.

[kathrinef]

[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;8821682]
You could always have her re-checked after 28 days - it is often easier to see once there is a heartbeat.[/QUOTE]

I did check her twice, once at 21 days with one vet (who I had to drive to since my vet was on holiday) and then after that again with my normal vet (although I don’t remember the date by heart it was past the 28 days).

The vet I am using is experienced, but he hasn’t practiced it much the last years due to the fact that all the breeders around got old and stopped breeding. His ultrasound machine is really old too, so don’t even know if it would detect heartbeats tbh!

I heard one story from a friend, she breeds quite a bit and uses a really experienced repro vet. She had a mare declared empty at 3 months! Next year, she also got fat and had a foal! So it seems to happen from time to time, which is why I’m curious if she could be pregnant, just that it got missed. Since I rebred 2 other mares now in August who showed heat just fine, and they are all turned out together. So I don’t know why this one wouldn’t, as she was really the one who showed heat best of them all!

The vet will come and check all my mares again this week. So I will have him look at her again too, but if she is pregnant, and the vet failed to see it previously, I feel like even if she is pregnant he could still miss it since he did before?! If it is hidden in some dark place of the uterus or something :uhoh: I’m not experienced enough with this to know why they would fail to find the embryo, especially at later stages.

@MysticOakRanch;8821682

She had a big, strapping colt that I nicknamed Hemi (for Hemoraghic Follicle). He is showing 2nd level now, that silly follicle!

Hahaha, that comment made me laugh :lol:

[kathrinef]

Yes, I wouldn’t breed her again now even if she was empty. I would wait till next year. I’m just perplexed since I assumed she would either have come back to heat according to schedule in end July already, or be declared pregnant. Since none of those happened, I’m left really curious :o I’m really new at breeding, I had my first 2 foals this year (not from this mare) so I also want to hear if other people could have similar experiences, or any alternatives to why this would happen

[kathrinef]

[QUOTE=NancyM;8821851]
Sit and wait. She may be in foal. Listen to your horse over your veterinarian when it comes to pregnancy. It’s late now anyway. By spring, you will know one way or the other, and act accordingly.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I wouldn’t breed her again now even if she was empty. I would wait till next year. I’m just perplexed since I assumed she would either have come back to heat according to schedule in end July already, or be declared pregnant. Since none of those happened, I’m left really curious :o I’m really new at breeding, I had my first 2 foals this year (not from this mare) so I also want to hear if other people could have similar experiences, or any alternatives to why this would be

[Kottbulle]

I have a Maiden mare ( also Swedish but 11 yrs old) we were told she was open after her last breeding also in July. ( she was checked at 25 days… also due to a vet being on vacation)… since we were not going to try again this season… we decided not to worry about it… but as far as we can tell she has now missed 3 heat cycles… and she is like your mare usually very obvious. We almost had the vet ultrasound her when she was out checking our beef cows… but she ran out of time.
My BF isn’t super keen on having her ultrasounded as he feels it is stressful for her. She is mostly good about it, but does need a twitch and a notes chain. So fro now we are just going to wait… she will be at 80 days by the end of the month, and we are waiting for a Wee-Foal Test to arrive. Supposedly we can check at 110 days with that test and it is apparently fairly accurate… so fingers crossed we will know some good news next month… though I think part of us doesn’t really want to know the bad news if she is open.

[kathrinef]

Köttbulle: where did you find the wee-foal test? I assume you are from Sweden from your username I looked for that test as well, but it was out of stock in the one place I found it
Same feeling for me, but I guess it’s better to know now than waiting for months hoping for something that isn’t happening. My first year of breeding only one mare out of 2 took, only to find out in spring that the one who was pregnant had slipped. but luckily they both got pregnant the second year and gave me 2 healthy foals now

[Kottbulle]

Actually I’m in the US… i used my mare’s nickname as my ID… it means meatball as I always call her my little meatball… cheesy i know. but it fits her roly poly self.
My BF ordered it online. As far as I could tell you had to order them from a company in Australia. Not sure if that helps. Still haven’t gotten it, but it is coming from Australia to Michigan so it could take awhile.

[LookmaNohands]

Soooo, why don’t they have a “clear blue” kind of test with horses?

[keysfins]

One important reason to know if a mare is carrying or not is so you can (try to) schedule vaccinations as you would for a mare definitely in foal, if that is normal practice for your breeding program.

[ThirdCharm]

http://www.foalguard.com/marepregnancytestkit.htm

Jennifer

[JJ_sLuckyTrain]

BET Labs in Lexington, KY, has several useful hormone assays to check for pregnancy. Requires a blood (serum) sample to be sent in.

[Texarkana]

[QUOTE=ThirdCharm;8823046]
http://www.foalguard.com/marepregnancytestkit.htm

Jennifer[/QUOTE]

I’ve used these kits in the early fall with my mare who seems to be developing a pattern of not cycling in the late summer months despite being bred in the spring and never catching.

I started using them mainly because I was getting tired of my vet rolling his eyes at me when I’d ask for the millionth time if he was sure she was not pregnant.

And because I can’t send blood to the lab as a lay person, so I’d still have to endure the vet’s eye rolling going that route. :lol:

They’ve confirmed my mare has not been pregnant so… I guess they have worked for me? I’m about to purchase one for this fall because surprise surprise, guess who scanned open multiple times back in June but hasn’t shown heat since her last cover in May…

[Foxtrot_s]

Silly comment - but do you have any geldings to encourage her to come in?
My mare does not show heat at home.