Mare having trouble with shoes

So this is a strange (annoying) situation that normally, if I heard it, and the other time I’ve experienced it, I’d be one to jump up like “new farrier!” and call it a day.
However, I’m not feeling that way here.

I moved to Ocala, FL, from Columbus, Ohio in November. I brought my now 8 year old mare and 19 year old retired OTTBs with me. I’ve had my mare a little over 3 years.

When I first got her off the track she pulled a couple shoes, then we put bell boots on, shoes with front clips, squared her back toes, and it’s been fine since (2+ years). Not a shoe lost. Surprisingly even with the last farrier in Ohio I used - I had to make a last-minute farrier change due to scheduling complications, and I wasn’t in love with the new one’s work. But the shoes stayed on, even though they refused to square the back toes, and I only had to use them twice before we moved.

Now, in Florida, she’s pulling them again. I really really really like the farrier I found down here, and IMO he does a really fantastic job. The first 2 months or so, two appointments, all was well. Then, shwoop! Shoe lost at about 5.5 weeks.

Okay, no big deal, it was just a few days to our scheduled appointment and her feet are not in super shape (bad TB feet), nice and dry.

Then, again, shwoop! About 2 weeks after they were put back on. UGH! So farrier was scheduled to come out, then that day my poor little mare got attacked by bees or something, and in her struggle pulled the other one off. She was drunk/loopy and very uncomfortable (obviously) by the time the farrier arrived (it happened right before he told me he was on his way, so I didn’t see his text), so, we just went 4 weeks barefoot. (Yes, I treated the bee attack with vet instructions, details not pertinent to this post).

So after some barefoot time, she got her shoes back on two days ago. We put shoes on with front clips this time. This morning, I go out to feed, and she hadn’t pulled the shoe BUT the nails are pulled out 1/3 to 1/2 way. WHAT.

Things I note:
-It’s always the front left (except the bee attack, of course), mine don’t have back shoes.
-My gelding’s feet look ah-may-zing, and his shoes never budge. Wedges, he has navicular disease.
-My mare’s feet look as amazing as they can, hers are not as good as my geldings just from DNA. They’re dry and usually flake in the summer (so the year-long summer here will be really fun to maintain, but they’ve been way worse than they are right now).
-We’ve fed her biotin, done two different topical hoof conditioners (Hooflex I think, and Mane n Tail Hoofmaker) and I’ve not seen much (if any) improvement.
-The transition in footing has been really difficult for my mare. She’s not the most surefooted of beasts, and the soft sand under the grass here has a lot more movement than the dirt does in Ohio. She still isn’t used to it, but felt to be doing better with it, and I can’t afford to build a sand arena yet (it’s in the plans). I feel very strongly that this is a large factor.
-Mare was off September to January for a minor pasture injury, so we started back to riding January 1 with just walking, now four months later are WTC and small jumps again (under 2’). I note that the shoe pulling seems to have started/increased in direct correlation to the amount of work we do in rides.
-Farrier is very patient and kind, and does really well with the mustang I got down here, who was barely even halter broke when I got her two months ago.

No, mareface cannot go barefoot indefinitely. She did okay for those four weeks, because we didn’t jump. I would like to jump again.

Farrier is coming back ASAP to fix and will try a few things that worked in Ohio.

So, any suggestions?
Magical hoof supplements or topical?

OK. I have an Oldenburg that I have had for 12 years now…homebred. His grandmother was thoroughbred and he has one really bad front foot. He also gets really dry and flaky and can’t hold a shoe. I tried everything including supplements, topical treatments and white lighting to try to kill any bacteria. I even put toilet bowl wax on his feet every time I bathed/washed legs to keep the water out. While the wax helped, it didn’t improve his feet.

Finally, I got hawthorne’s turpentine. I say hawthorne’s because it comes with a brush to apply. Turpentine is the oldest trick in the book, but what I discovered is that if you use it on the outside of the hoof like hoof oil on a regular basis IT DOES MIRACLES! I just tried this last year. I put it on before I bathe like I use to do with the wax. It also keeps out the water while at the same time holding in good moisture and strengthening his wall. My farrier is in awe and tells everyone he knows with troubled feet to put it on the outside. He is even off his farriers formula now! Keep in mind this horses foot is AWFUL and after 12 years of struggling to keep his shoe on…ALL PROBLEMS SOLVED. Give it a try for a few months as it is simple and painless. It won’t hurt anything or take any extra time and I guarantee you will be happy.

Only downside is that the turpentine will rub off on the farriers hoof file when he gets shod so mine just takes the metal brush to it to clean it off.

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post pics, give a multi vitamin. so hard to help with no pics.

Pictures would help greatly :slight_smile:
http://www.all-natural-horse-care.co…of-photos.html

Any time I hear “we square the hind toes and that fixes the problem”, I automatically think 2 things:

  • front toes really are too long, and it may be slight enough that the flare goes all the way up to the top, so is not readily visible, but still clearly there
  • the hinds are too long, because IMHO if there’s room to square the toes, there’s room to take those corners off

Often, both.

Topicals and feed-things don’t prevent pulled shoes. If the quality of the foot is lacking, ramping up the diet can help with that and mitigate the damage from a pulled shoe, but it’s not going to stop the horse from stepping on them.

If this is increasing with an increased workload, I would investigate saddle fit firstly, and have some good chiro/mt work done.

I agree that nothing you do to the outside of the feet will keep shoes on. I went through 2 years of constant shoe pulling until I finally switched to a new farrier just last week and the difference is absolutely amazing. I agree that most likely front toes are too long. I really believe in the majority of cases horses loose shoes for a reason. You need to keep trying things until you find what works.

Now about hoof quality I would try this
https://www.argentoeq.com/collections/hoof-care/products/leovet-revivet
I seriously love this stuff and it lasts a long time. And I love that it is all natural. I always go that route when possible but its tough to find all natural that actually works

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I read that feeding biotin alone can lead to flaky, soft hooves and that you typically need the zinc and methionine to strengthen the hoof. I don’t know the science or validity of that as I read it on a supplement brands website, but if you’re feeding just biotin it might be something to look in to.

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Thanks all!

Where did you read/hear that? That doesn’t make sense.

It’s true that you need enough methionine for biotin to be used, which is why most hoof supps have both. Biotin alone can work - studies have proven it.

What the studies are not clear on are why adding it works for some horses and not others. I personally suspect the answer lies in how much methionine is in the horse’s diet and how much he’s actually utilizing. You can feed 40gm biotin (and about 1/2 of that will be peed out if given at once) but if the horse is methionine-deficient, it’s useless. Or only as much biotin will be used as there is methionine to support it.

OP I hear your pain, I really REALLY do.

I have an eight year old ISH with a big stride who is also a clutz and mischievous little monster. Keeping shoes on was a constant battle. I did bell boots and he still pulled shoes, and you can see where he was catching himself and ripping the bells here AND where he also stepped sideways onto his own foot:

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/12052660_10207849524257627_6341829569708156378_o.jpg?oh=263ffb5249ba99d6369f9a3c7e0ce544&oe=595A8650

Plus not only did he step on them, he also used his teeth and yanked on them until he pulled them off. I’ve seen him do it, and here you can see where he yanked on a Old Mac boot until it was FUBARed and he’s broken the keepers on both of them and ripped the front decal/leather patch off one of them (he also grabs and rips his own blankets, and yes he has toys):

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/17620346_10212814659182897_8461763116731650424_o.jpg?oh=4c53953b873f62a223258cf83610142b&oe=5998D90B

I found Shoe Secures last year and haven’t had a pulled shoe since, until last week ( https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/17632375_10212805388911146_8009185460618482399_o.jpg?oh=8d24c18cc380fe26f6bfccaaf38ad2d7&oe=5992FC57 ). One week out from the farrier coming on a six week rotation and he slid out of the whole thing, from the nails down. And then he did it again with the other front shoe on the DAY the farrier was coming. Short of keeping him locked in so he doesn’t run around, we’re going to discuss clips in the front once he regrows enough foot to even put on a shoe on. And he can’t be barefoot even for flat riding, he isn’t even pasture sound without shoes. Rads show very thin sole, and quality was just crap. I put him on Biotin Plus Powder and the farrier said his overall quality is better, but short of moving to Arizona, I’m going to continue to have issues. I hope once I bring them home and he is stalled at night, it will help… But if you find a solution, clue me in too! In the mean time, check out the Shoe Secures :slight_smile:

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Shoe Secure is quite interesting!

They were recommended to me by another COTHer, they are great for horses grabbing shoes. He just slid out of these, due to how wet it’s been… bad luck. The lady who runs the company is super responsive to email and questions.

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I agree- I can’t remember where exactly where I read it, but it was a supplement manufacturer website who sold both biotin alone and another hoof supplement. I have a feeling that it was most likely a way to sell the (significantly more expensive) “complete” hoof supplement they manufactured and not the cheaper biotin.

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The turpentine is definitely helping her hoof quality, thanks for that suggestion!
However, we’re still pulling the front left shoe.
Today we just went barefoot, and I’m going to have a chiropractor out before she gets them put back on. Perhaps it’s a misalignment issue? She was adjusted in November, and has been in slow light work since January as rehab after recovering from an injury. But, I guess sometimes they need it sooner than normal…

Can you take pictures?

Pictures would be helpful,can give better answers then.