Mare not producing....

[ThirdCharm]

Lost a foal this week. Everything was totally normal… I was in the stall within minutes, disinfectant in hand, foal got up very quickly, good nurse reflex. Colostrum looked good, thick and yellowish. Foal was nursing in short order.
Vet came out at 18 hours… IgG was very very low… what? Ran plasma. IgG went up but not as much as we’d like. More plasma and prophylactic antibiotics. Foal was nursing great, up and down as often as expected (I have cameras), but not as active as normal and sometimes took a few tries to get up. Vet thought mare’s milk looked weak, and foal was not getting enough out of it. Started feeding milk replacer from a bucket, catching foal after a nap before it could nurse. Foal improved. Then it started struggling to get up and being iffy about the bucket. Intubated, a day and a half of feedings every 2 hours, about half the time it would drink from the bucket. Improved, then declined again. Vet thought might be going septic, vet school hospital was discussed, owner elected to euthanize due to expense vs iffy prognosis.

so what to do with this mare? She is 14 and green… raced til 6, 3 registered foals, 1 barren year, 2 years bred with no foal recorded either way (I am now wondering if she produced a live foal that died for the same reasons… not sure how JC reporting handles that). She was under saddle for about 2 months last year and was schooling 3’6" and training level xc… but she is a bit old for a prospect. She is big, great conformation, great temperament, lovely mover, fabulous jump, really great pedigree. Would it be worth breeding her again, and just defaulting to frozen tested colostrum, and milk replacer from a bottle until foal could drink from a bucket, just in case? She is a really nice mare…

jennifer

[Katona]

Any chance of Neonatal isoerythrolysis? How did the placenta look?

[ThirdCharm]

@Katona

Any chance of Neonatal isoerythrolysis? How did the placenta look?

Placenta was perfect. I dont THINK so, as mucous membranes looked good, heart and respiration stayed decent even when foal was weak, and it improved when given glucose and milk replacer. It just finally started to look like it was going septic and needed hospitalizatuon, and owner decided to PTS…

jennifer

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Did you all do an autopsy on the foal? I’d be curious if there was an irregularity with the kidneys or liver that was a driver in terms of sepsis.

So sorry. It seems worthwhile to try and reach out to breeding farm that had the mare before and find out more about her history. Specifically the two years without a recorded foal - I’d be worried about a pattern - before breeding again.

[BeeHoney]

I definitely think you could reach out to the farm she came from. It’s unfortunate, but several years of being bred but not producing a live foal is sort of a bad sign and could easily be why she was sold. Typically TB farms have really excellent repro and neonatal vets, so it’s very possible that there is more information to be had. I wouldn’t expect them to be offended to be asked. But, the downside is that I think that given that she was at a TB farm I think that it’s unlikely that the problem is/was NI. We routinely test every mare, even maidens, prior to delivery. I’m not sure every farm does, but I’m sure they would have been able to diagnose NI and treat it adequately the next year even if they missed it once.

Personally, I would not re-breed a mare with this history. She sounds lovely and it’s very sad that this happened. But you could sink a lot of $$ into trying to figure out what happened and why and trying to prevent it, given that there seems to be some kind of a pattern. I think the owner made a very reasonable decision–it’s easy to sink an incredible amount of money into trying to save a sick foal and it can be a very long (and sometimes inhumane) journey.

FWIW, if a foal dies, nothing gets reported to the JC. Breeders have a year (or longer with some late fees) from the time a foal is born to register it. It’s also possible to have a live foal and simply not register it, for example if a foal was not racing quality, but that’s unusual IME. I would assume that if a mare was bred but no foal was registered that the foal died.

[Displaced_Yankee]

Forgive me for asking but is there any reason she can’t just be a riding horse? Or is that not what the owner wants?

I am not a breeder, just enjoy reading this forum for general knowledge. But even at 14, jumping 3’6" after a few months under saddle? Sounds like a gem if she is a nice as you describe.

[ThirdCharm]

I dont think it was that sort of breeding farm. Former owner said basically “I think the foal that died was weak and didnt nurse. Not sure. I had so many mares.” Guess a dying foal didnt make much of an impression.
Re: being a riding horse, not much call to sell or lease a 14yo greenie, even free. She is sweet and pretty sensible but not a beginner horse… but, who knows…

jennifer

[vineyridge]

You know what I’d do with her? If her personal pedigree and personality and talents are worth keeping for sport, I’d breed her by embryo transfer until I got a filly or a colt who was stallion material. If it is not a genetic problem, and that’s a big if, embryo transfer foals should not be affected by her inability to now carry a pregnancy to a healthy, live foal.

[BeeHoney]

I disagree. ET is very expensive. For what it would cost you to produce a foal via ET, you could pretty much go out and buy whatever foal you wanted. This mare sounds extremely nice, but she has never proven herself in competition. A resulting foal could not be expected to be have a value that would come anywhere close to supporting ET. And, for all we know, the mare carries a genetic trait that is causing issues in a certain percentage of her offspring. I would never consider using ET for an unproven in sport, unproven producer (or proven to be a poor producer), OTTB mare.

I also disagree that this mare could (or should) be considered something that would produce a stallion prospect. For a mare to produce a stallion prospect, she should have more credentials than being able to jump 3’6", and should not have a history of producing weak foals. It sounds like the history of what happened at the other farm is nebulous, but the fact remains that she has lost at least two foals and probably a third. She’s not a good bet to breed.

I know it’s tough to be stuck with a horse, but that is the reality of owning horses and breeding. Mares that don’t produce or that have issues should be removed from breeding programs, both for quality and financial reasons. Breeding a mare because she doesn’t have value in any other capacity is foolish. It would be wiser and less expensive to just retire the mare completely. Probably the most cost effective and humane thing to do would be to get her back going under saddle and give her away. Still a loss, but I don’t even need to run the numbers to know that would be much less expensive than breeding her again.

[vineyridge]

You’d be surprised how nice a pedigree this OTTB mare has for sport. Her bloodlines are as good as one can possibly get these days.