Mare ouchy on gravel, thin and flat soles

[paintedpennypony]

When I got Mare earlier this year, I was new to horse ownership in this area and used a farrier who butchered her feet. Like her soles were badly bruised before the farrier was even done. The farrier carved a bunch of sole and toe off and just generally did a horrible job. She was dead lame for a week and has a big event line on all four hooves that correspond roughly to about when this trim happened.

FF to August of this year and Mare was diagnosed with a soft tissue injury during a lameness exam. We took X-rays of her front hooves and the vet said she had thin soles, I can’t remember what the left measured at but she said the right was 0.47 inches thick. Not sure what they should be but the Vet said at least half an inch? Her toes are also long and heels underrun but I knew this going into the lameness exam.

Anyway, since Mare is only 3.5 I do not want to shoe her yet. I have moved her to a new barn and she has an excellent farrier now. She lives outside 24/7 and I hand walk her on trails ~3 times a week that have 0.75 to 1.5 miles of gravel paths on them. I make her walk on the gravel even though she takes ouchy steps sometimes because Pete Ramey et al say that walking on gravel is a way to build their soles up. She’s been on Cal Trace Plus for most of this year. I put iodine on her soles 2-3 times a week and Keratex hoof hardener on her hoof walls once a week.

Is there anything else I can be doing to help her feet out? I cringe when I see her take an ouchy step on the gravel even if it does help her in the long run (right ?) Her new farrier is really great and she is on a 5 week cycle, I have her diet and topical applications covered, we do lots of walking within the realm of what’s appropriate with her injury. Is it just a waiting game? She is going to be out of work until likely April or May and will have a full lameness work up before I put her back in a program.

[Scribbler]

Pete Ramey also recommends hoof boots so horses can move freely and build up their feet.

[fivestrideline]

Yes Ramey suggests pea gravel (not just any gravel, but the really tiny, uniform sized gravel) in parts of turnouts or around water sources to help build up sole. He strongly suggests boots and pads for riding if the horse is ouchy - in your case handwalking.

Walking your horse on gravel for any distance (ie .75-1.5 miles?) is asking for toe-first landing and/or further bruising of the sole. IMO you’re actually doing more harm than good. There’s a difference between crossing the gravel driveway to get to the grass and walking on gravel/rocky trails.

Get some boots.

[fivestrideline]

Adding to clarify: what you want is a heel-first or at least flat landing, to help build up that digital cushion (her frog and all the associated structures). If the horse is ouchy, it will often shorten the stride and toe land so you’re not getting any benefit to the digital cushion. Boots and pads give some stimulation to the sole and frog while protecting them from damage, allowing the horse to comfortably stride out and build up the structures.

A “normal” sole thickness is around 3/4” - some horses do max out at 1/2” so that’s purported as a minimum. Gravel can help exfoliate the sole and build a little bit of a callous (assuming the farrier isn’t carving it all out), but you can swing too far the other way and bruise or damage the sole and frog. This is why Ramey suggests spots of gravel where the horses will visit daily, but not to gravel the whole paddock or shed.

[PaddockWood]

Can you take some good pictures and post here? Get down next to a foot and at ground level and up close snap a front, side, back and sole view. Sooooo many horses have a toe that is too long. What do hers look like?

[stb]

The type of gravel Pete Ramey recommends is small and rounded and deep - deep enough to mold to the horse’s foot. Bigger gravel, sharp gravel, or thinly layered gravel on a hard surface will not help to build sole and are likely to make things worse by causing your horse pain, possible bruising, and encouraging toe first landings.

Also, long toes and underrun heels contribute to thin soles. Put some boots and pads on your horse while you are exercising her and let her learn to reach out in front and land on her heels. Without a heel first landing you are not going to make much headway with her soles.

[paintedpennypony]

I have X-rays from august I can post?

[paintedpennypony]

She lands heel-first per the vet and generally moves correctly. The vet instructed the new farrier to not take any sole off, and the new farrier is working off the X-rays.

It gets very very snowy here during the winters and it’s dangerous to drive so I won’t be coming out as often as I do now. Will putting her in boots contribute to thrush?

[paintedpennypony]

Fml. -100 for my reading comprehension. I just measured it’s and it’s about 0.25 miles to and from the trailhead and another 0.2 miles of gravel-ish paths to the specific trail we take. I thought I was helping her soles this whole time.

[fivestrideline]

In the grand scheme of things, she’s gonna be fine. Don’t beat yourself up too much!

Boots won’t contribute to thrush - assuming she’s fine in turnout, you’ll only use them when working her. Leave them somewhere to dry out, and dump some athletes foot powder or baby powder in them. Also, making sure the foot is as clean and dry as possible before putting them on - the athletes powder can help with that.

[paintedpennypony]

[paintedpennypony]

I was taking notes as the vet looked them over and this is what she said:
“Almost to normal sole thickness
Really nice clear open joint spaces, no ski slopes at coffin bone. Smooth navicular on both
Does have long toes
No signs of laminitis
Nice and tight parallel to hoof wall”

We didn’t get any head on shots so not sure about any medial-lateral imbalances.

[PaddockWood]

Have you ever handled a rasp? I missed you sayin she has long toes and the vet confirmed and can see that on the rads too. You would do her so good to back those toes up now IMO. Only rasping from the front of the toe down - not on the underside.

It’s been my experience and then hearing it from Dr. Bowker that the foot begins to correct itself within a few days. Having a short toes does so much for them - positively.

No signs of laminitis is huge and I’ll bet with your caring and getting this going in the right direction she’ll be feeling better in no time.

If you need help with boots there are some good podcasts on the subject. LMK if you are interested and I’ll post them.

[paintedpennypony]

Her farrier is actually teaching me to rasp her toes next weekend during her trim for this exact reason! How often should I be rasping them if she’s on a 5 week cycle?

Yes I would be interested in any boot resources, thank you!

[Scribbler]

You will find it difficult to take much off when you are first learning to rasp.

You should take a good look at the fresh trim and try to maintain that. Depending on growth and wear you might want to try rasping after a week. But be guided by what your farrier says. The idea is to mimic continual wear.

Horses are usually comfortable in fresh snow barefoot.

[Demerara_Stables]

+1 to your farrier teaching you how to rasp, that’s the best way to keep the toes short and the angles correct. Depending on how much she grows, you could do once a week, but definitely go by what your farrier says and try to keep the foot looking the same all the time (don’t let them get long and try to take a bunch off).

Also, depending on how she feels in turnout (does she run around, is she sound), she can absolutely wear boots in turnout, even short term while you’re getting things under control. I love the easy boot glove and also the Cavallos. Sizing is a b*tch no matter the brand, so be prepared to order a few sizes and send ones back that don’t fit. If you can find someone local that has the same boots you want that will help you determine size. Each brand has different sizing, and some brands are better for oval vs round feet. You might have a little thrush but if you can keep it in check with thrush buster it’s more important to keep her comfortable and prevent/help with compensatory movement patterns than it is too avoid the thrush 100%. Remember, the boots are temporary. Good luck!

[PaddockWood]

Do you have access to a hoof stand? If so, you rasp straight down at the toe then check from the underside and go back to the white line. Does that make sense? Check in a 5 days or so and keep the growth back to the white line. It’s shocking how quickly good things happen with this work.

Rasping is hard IMO. The hoof stand helps. Someone here had me order a sharp rasp and gloves that protect your hands. I’ll find that link for you.

[PaddockWood]

Here’s a podcast with Sara Hunt - her whole business is hoof boots. July 8, 2022 was another conversation with her on the subject and then June 16, 2022 too. You probably couldn’t go wrong to reach out to her for help.

Hoof Boots: What You Need To Know

[PaddockWood]

Here’s the gloves. They are simply amazing. No more shredding of your skin.

vankada Cut Resistant Gloves,3 Pairs Upgrade Safety Kitchen Cuts Gloves, Food...