Mare turned vicious - was colt dying?

[Didi]

Sorry if this is going to be a novel. Spoiler Alert: Everything turned out happy. I am just curious if any of you more experienced breeders ever encountered this.

Last night, the mare owner and myself foaled out a lovely colt. I have had a 3 year relationship with this mare. She bore my foal two years ago, so when I leased her for that purpose I purposely groomed her every day and paid a lot of attention to her so she would know me. She is a very human-trusting mare anyway, so she always “talks” to me and is very welcoming. I have grabbed her udder many times without any reaction whatsoever, for example. The mare owner is an extremely experienced horse person (though not breeder) who also enjoys a great relationship with the mare,

When the colt was born, he was a little lethargic. We called the emergency number for our vet and got a “new” member of the practice, not our regular repo doc. She called the repo doc who told us to vigorously towel off the newborn to stimulate him. We did and it helped. Mare had no negative reaction to our presence whatsoever. After close to an hour we called again because he still had not stood (had tried though) and had not nursed. “New” vet told us to hold his tail to help him up and he wasn’t in any real trouble till after 2 hours, anyway. Mare owner talked to her and got sense she was very reluctant to deal with this.

We helped him with his tail and he stood, but could not hold his weight. Mare Owner was virtually holding him up. We guided him to the teat (he had made sucking noises since the moment he was born). I grabbed the teat and tried to guide it to him but he fell. Again NO negative reaction from the mare AT ALL.

Finally, it had been close to 2 hours. Baby was lying straight out. “New” vet was called, she called the repro vet. Repo vet called, said she was coming out and to milk the mare so she could incubate the colt right away. This time when we went in with a halter, the mare resisted. She got so upset, we stopped so she wouldn’t tramp the foal. We left the stall. A few minutes later I noticed the mare standing beside the foal and jerking her head up and down very hard. When mare owner opened the door just to look at the foal (to make sure it was breathing), mare attacked her!!! She backed out. Later, I peeked around the corner. Again, she lunged at me, whites of eyes, teeth, pinned ears, everything. In fact, it was the most violent I have ever seen a horse be. We honestly thought the colt was dead.

Long story short, somehow, and I believe in the power of prayer, the colt suddenly stood and rooted toward her udder. Mare’s disposition changed immediately and she was back to her old self. Vet got there just then, we haltered and milked the mare without incident and the foal was saved.

So - had anyone else ever seen this? Was the foal dying and the mare knew it? Just so curious about this since it was so surprising.

Thanks!!

[Laurierace]

Mares have a clock in their head as to what the foal should be doing and when. I don’t know that he was dying although obviously he would have eventually if he could not get up and/or nurse but she knew he was vulnerable because he wasn’t following her time line. You know you are a breeder when you watch your mare desperately paw and push a dead foal in an attempt to get them on their feet. It is absolutely heartbreaking but eventually they get the idea and walk away.

[goodpony]

just a guess but more likely post foaling hormonal surges coupled with some discomfort. I know someone who ended up with a broke arm from a very similar situation as yours.

[NoDQhere]

I’m sure I’ll get reamed for even saying this but we have seen far more problems caused by too much interference than caused by lack of “help”. It is the mare’s “job” to protect the foal, get it on it’s feet and nursing. When there are people messing with her newborn she is likely to become confused and may react aggressively. Once those protective instincts turn on, the sweetest mares can be dangerous. And this is NOT the time to discipline a mare for doing what she is supposed to do so try not to put her in that position! Every foal is different and some take more time than others. A foal isn’t going to die if it isn’t up and nursing in an hour or in most cases two.

When we foal mares, and we have foaled a lot of them, we make sure the foal is breathing, looks and acts “normal” and we leave them alone. We watch from a distance (we have good cameras) and give them time to figure this all out. Some foals are exhausted from birth and will sleep, wake, try to stand, sleep wake, try to stand several times before they finally get up. Others are born “super charged” and are up and nursing very quickly.

It is nerve wracking to stand back and wait, but most of the time that is what you need to do.

[Didi]

Thank you all for your responses. I think each is very valid and educational. NoDQhere (so sorry! LOL), I think you have very valid points and I would not “ream” you. I learned a LOT when my foal was born and felt like “New” vet was advising us poorly. My theory went a lot more like yours.

LaurieRace and goodpony - you both are very insightful. I can see how both of you are correct. Thank you for your responses!

[Jumper_Bump]

@NoDQhere

I’m sure I’ll get reamed for even saying this but we have seen far more problems caused by too much interference than caused by lack of “help”. It is the mare’s “job” to protect the foal, get it on it’s feet and nursing. When there are people messing with her newborn she is likely to become confused and may react aggressively. Once those protective instincts turn on, the sweetest mares can be dangerous. And this is NOT the time to discipline a mare for doing what she is supposed to do so try not to put her in that position! Every foal is different and some take more time than others. A foal isn’t going to die if it isn’t up and nursing in an hour or in most cases two.

When we foal mares, and we have foaled a lot of them, we make sure the foal is breathing, looks and acts “normal” and we leave them alone. We watch from a distance (we have good cameras) and give them time to figure this all out. Some foals are exhausted from birth and will sleep, wake, try to stand, sleep wake, try to stand several times before they finally get up. Others are born “super charged” and are up and nursing very quickly.

It is nerve wracking to stand back and wait, but most of the time that is what you need to do.

Completely agree

Sounds like this mare knew her job, and was doing it the best she could.

I think she was also telling you that you tried, and it was her turn now haha

Has she reverted back to her usual self now? Does she let you handle the foal?

[csaper58]

Mares and foals have a very strong connection. Perhaps the mare knew her foal wanted to be left alone for a little while?

Did foal get enough colostrum?

[Didi]

The foal did get a lot of colostrum because the mare had not leaked much before she was milked. The mare is exhibiting erratic behavior. One day, she allowed everyone who wanted to to come in the paddock, touch the foal, and pet her. There is even a photo of the mare owner’s 11 year old daughter sitting on the ground with the foal’s head in her lap, and the mare is just watching over both of them - completely calm. When the vet (not the usual repro, so a new face) arrived yesterday (not sure if that has anything to do with it - just giving all the info), mare became aggressive again and could not be caught by anyone. Spent the night with foal outside. Was the same way today, even though she “talked” to me and seemed to want to come to me, she warned me off when I got too close. Finally we caught her when she came close enough to the edge of the fence. Reverted back to her old self as soon as lead rope was on.

PS - The vet came because she had retained a small piece of placenta, had to be flushed several times, and finally expelled with the oxytocin. Vet had come for final flush.

[JB]

Does the mare have a snug-fitting halter on so she can be more easily caught if/when necessary? Maybe with a short grab strap? I’m assuming the 11yo is no long allowed to be in a position like that?

I have definitely heard of some mares being this way for short and long durations. The thing to watch out for is you don’t want to inadvertently teach the foal that being nasty gets you left alone, so definitely carefully pick the necessary battles with the mare.

HOPEfully now that she’s gotten rid of all the placenta, and had the oxy, she will mellow quickly. That just cannot be fun :no:

[NoDQhere]

This sounds like normal, (although frustrating for people), behavior for a mare with a new foal. Try to give her some time with as little interference as possible and I bet she’ll be back to her old normal in a week or so.

[shea_smom]

I had a foal. “People” came to see it who supposedly knew stuff. FYI, I know stuff too. They insisted we get the foal to nurse. Mare was non-confrontational. We did milk mare and get some in baby. I wanted to leave her alone and finally got all the “help” to leave. An hour later I went back to check and mare came at me with teeth bared.
She had known what to do and we didn’t let her do it. All ended well but she was pissed!! She reverted back to her regular self.
Hope all goes well for you now.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

@NoDQhere

This sounds like normal, (although frustrating for people), behavior for a mare with a new foal. Try to give her some time with as little interference as possible and I bet she’ll be back to her old normal in a week or so.

This. I had a mare (the mother of the horse in my profile) that was highly protective for about two weeks. She eventually chilled out, but you needed to be on your toes handling her and the foal for the first couple weeks. She was a very good momma. Protected her foal from the electric fence, other horses, taught her to poop in the corner of the stall only (greatest gift ever), etc. I left them alone for that time, unless I had a second handler, because I didn’t want the foal to think nasty was ok.

Now her daughter, in the picture, is the opposite and super laid back with a baby (except towards other horses). Possibly because I’ve owned her her whole life and we have a good working relationship. IDK. We did have to force her to let her first foal nurse, for about a day, after it became apparent she had zero interest in having that thing back there. But she figured it out eventually.

[Didi]

Thank you for all of your responses. All were very helpful and interesting. Mare seems to be reverting back to her previously sweet self. Colt is amazing - very active and friendly.

[Magicboy]

So glad this story has a good ending.

[NoDQhere]

Thank You for the update! Great news.