Mare who doesn't produce enough milk weaning ribby foal early

The foal-lac should do the trick. Sounds like you have things well in hand. I had an older gelding that raised my foals. He was awesome with them. So much so that I had several people request to use him with their weanlings. I never was able to sell one that young. Just couldn’t bring myself to do it though I always swore I was going to.

Keep us posted on how he progresses.

How often have you done the double dose for the mare?

How often for the foal?

I haven’t for the mare, she was dewormed a few months ago, but I’ve been having the vet do fecal tests on her to check her for worms. No sense in giving her wormers when she has no worms to begin with. She’s come back clean by the way. And the foal~monthly. Thanks!

Adults and foals get dewormed differently. Foals have no immunity to parasites, so need a lot more frequent help to keep numbers very low so they can build immunity without being overwhelmed.

This means monthly deworming, starting at about 8 weeks (that’s how long it takes for any parasites to develop to the stage where dewormers can kill them).

For foals, there are 2 issues. Ascarids have a growing resistance to ivermectin, so to be SURE they are killed, you should use either a double dose of fenbendazole (Panacur, Safeguard), or a double dose of pyrantel pamoate (Strongid paste).

But, strongyles have a HUGE resistance issue with those 2 chemicals, so for them, you need ivermectin. So while the vet’s “double dose panacur” is good, you can’t do that every month, or you’ll be all but guaranteed to end up with a strongyle problem, and you’ll never kill bots or tapeworms. Double pyrantel pamoate (Strongid) will at least kill tapeworms, until he’s old enough to get Equimax, and then Quest Plus later. Technically he’s old enough now for Equimax, but I would probably wait another couple months for that. Get 1 ivermectin into him first.

This translates to a monthly rotation between ivermectin, and a double dose of either of the other 2.

This should continue for at least 2 full years, and then start in with some FECs after skipping one of the dewormings to allow the horse to accumulate whatever his immune system will allow at that time, to see how things are going. Sometimes that monthly deworming, or at least a lot more frequent than just every 6 months, has to continue until they are 3 or so.

Personally, I wouldn’t wean the foal now. I would get him on Progressive’s Foal’s First Starter for the next month (IMHO it’s a better product than Foal-Lac), and then at 4 months make the transition to a good ration balancer of whatever brand you can get easily.

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As JB stated, the worming program you are following appears to have some gaps in coverage that could account for some of the foal’s lack of condition.

This should be discussed with your vet.

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Some years ago a mare at our yard died from an accident when her foal was just three months old. There were two other mares with foals but they didn’t allow the foal to come near to them. We started feeding him Purina Foal Milk replacer, but the foal didn’t accept to be bottle-fed. We followed the advice of a man who used to raise calves: We put the milk in a recipient large enoug to put our hand inside (a bucket) and we put our finger inside the foal’s mouth as it if was mum’s teat. In a week or so we didn’t need to put our hand inside the milk anymore, the foal came and took his ration willingly.

You could try that, on top of the deworming and other useful advices above.

Edited to add, the milk had to be fed lukewarm.

I haven’t for the mare, but I’ve had the vet do fecal tests on her to check her for worms. She’s clean. I don’t see any sense in worming when there are no worms.

Just know you still need to deworm adults, even with 0 count, twice a year, to at least get bots once, and tapes once. Much of the US should target both of those twice a year as well.

Your double Panacur (fenbendazole) likely did nothing for the mare. It was ineffective against strongyles that might be hanging around (resistance) and never would touch bots or tapeworms.

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I agree!! And I think the most essential thing you need to do is to deworm the mare right at the time of birth…It should be ideally one day before foaling or at least the day after foaling. Because she gives all the worms in her milk to the foal. And worms are causing a lot of problems in little foals… Didn’t your vet tell you about the deworming of the mare?? I agree with JB And honestly I suspect your problem is worms… If the mare would have no milk, the foal would have died by now… It is normal for foals to drink only very short and many times during the day. Thats how the stimulate the milk supply. Also it is very normal that you don’t get much milk out. And the picture shows a foal which looks wormy to me… very typical, ribs and fat belly. Are your vets experienced with breeding?? Good luck with your foal, I suspect that the mare is giving so many worms to the foal that it struggles…

I really don’t want to sound harsh or bad but worms are very dangerous for foals!!

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I wouldn’t look to any vet, until they prove otherwise, to give any good deworming advice :frowning:

But it’s not “all the worms” :slight_smile: It’s the intestinal threadworms. Since you don’t know a mare will foal tomorrow, if you just give ivermectin or moxidectin to the mare within about 12 hours post-foaling, you will all but eliminate her passing any intestinal threadworms - which aren’t bothering her - to the foal in the milk. That’s the only one which will do that, and which is linked to the 2 week “heat” foal scours.

I can’t see the foal picture big enough to make any assessment on his condition. It’s a weird stance, bad angle, and harsh lighting. Clearly there are ribs, but his stance, and the fact that he’s a bit humped and probably straining just a little to pass manure, is likely exacerbating their visibility, in addition to the very shadow-casting light.

We’d need to see a more appropriate representation of him before deciding anything.

At any rate, at 3 months - assuming he’s closer to 3 than 4 - he’s not likely to have any seriously large worm load.

I agree, and probably my wording was not good. But I would be still concerned about worms. And some of the symptoms are more typical for worms then for the mare not having enough milk… And if the foal survived with the mom for three months then the milk cannot be that little…

Actually I didn’t use panacur for the mare, but zimectrin gold. I agree with you on the twice a year and actually I usually deworm 3-4 times a year, changing up the wormers that I use that are better for that time of year. Thank you so much for all of your advice and help! I really appreciate it.

It’s very unlikely you need to be deworming more than twice a year :slight_smile: There are only 2 chemicals - ivermectin and moxidectin - in the same chemical class, the macrocyclic lactones, which are still effective broad-spectrum dewormers.

This means Zimecterin Gold (which I’ll never use, and urge everyone to never use because of its contact ulcer/burning issue), Equimax (both of which are ivermectin + praziquantel), and Quest/Quest Plus (moxidectin, and with prazi).

Fenbendazole (panacur, safeguard), oxibendazole (Anthelcide) and pyrantel pamoate (strongid paste) have high, widespread resistance issues. Of those 3, pp is a bit more likely to be effective enough, but you have to use FECs and FEC reduction tests (FECRTs) to determine that.

80-90% of horses control strongyles all on their own. Nearly every adult is immune to ascarids. That leaves bots, tapeworms and, to a lesser degree, pinworms.

You must use an -ectin to kill bots. The others will never touch them. And you must use either praziquantel in combination (Equimax or QP), or a double dose of pyrantel pamoate to kill tapeworms. You will kill pinworms in the process, though if you are having a pinworm issue that ivermectin doesn’t seem to be dealing with, that’s a good time for Anthelcide, but do a 1.5-2x dose, not just a single dose.

So “changing up”, if that means incorporating anything but an -ectin, is all but useless - it’s a drain on the wallet, and likely doing nothing.

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