I recently got a horse to hunt with who had an eventing background. She is not spooky in any way & goes through anything. She is new to hunting & I have had her out twice. Her issue is that she takes the bit when she sees the other horses take off & does not listen to me. The bit I have tried her in is a leverage type snaffle bit. I am open to any suggestions as I think that if I can get this issue solved she will make a fantastic field hunter. Her breed is Arab/Percheron.
Giving you a friendly bump.
I have never hunted so I am not really qualified to give advice. But this is COTH so I will. I would focus a bit on dressage. Once she is really listening to you in the ring work on these things in the field. Maybe go on a some schooling hunts where you are not bent on staying with the herd. I think some horses are just more herd bound than others, it is their instinct afterall. Patience and consistency are your friends:yes:
You have to remember that coming from eventing this horse is used to having the field to herself. Just start getting her out with groups you trust. Sounds like she just needs mileage to get the hang of being in a group versus being a solo performer.
Look for hunt trail rides in your area. These are a great way to teach inexperienced horses to go in company. Generally they start off slow (walk/trot) then build to faster work through the summer. When I first started taking my pony out on the hunt trail rides, he was definitely of the “work harder not smarter” mentality, but over time he calmed down. Last summer we did the rides almost every weekend and hunted almost the full season this year and now he’s a champ.
Of course once you introduce a new horse to hounds and hunting, you’ll still need to get over the dreaded third-hunt hump, where the light goes off and they realize “oh wow, running and jumping…COOL!” That’s a whole new problem. If you can drop back a field or volunteer to get the gates in the second field with a buddy, that’s what calmed my guy down and helped him understand that it’s not ALL running and jumping.
Good luck!
People are always introducing new horses to the hunt field, so your local hunt(s) should have plenty of options to help you bring her along. Hound walking, hunter paces, group trail rides, and–yes–as recommended going back to basics “Yo, listen to your rider!” dressage-y stuff over the summer. Then, next season, start slow and don’t move up to a faster field unless she’s listening to YOU.
It can be a little frustrating to be riding a lot slower than you would prefer at first, but keeping the horse from getting too excited and thinking “Yay! Running!” instead of learning to hunt actually makes the light bulbs go off sooner. One of the ladies in our hunt is a lovely rider on a beautifully-mannered draft cross, normally riding first field. I commented on how well he goes, and she said he spent time in third field (hilltoppers) for 5 years learning to listen to her and become extremely obedient before they moved up. Training: it takes as long as it takes for the results you wish to achieve.
So there is hope for us!
I am thinking of some training with a guy who hunts with another local hunt. Plus I am going to do a lot of ground work and getting to know her work. I will have to check into the trail rides with my hunt.
Thanks for the advice…I can always count on my fellow COTH members!
Is she over-fit? Often eventers are hyper-aware of fitness and conditioning, which is great, but not necessary for a fox hunter just starting out. I’d sooner take an unfit horse and retire early than a too-fit horse that is bouncing off the walls. Unfit horses also learn to conserve energy and use their checks wisely where fit horses often prance and dance at checks. A less fit horse will gain fitness as they gain experience, and hopefully maintain sanity the whole way through. Consider throwing her in a field for a month or more then bringing her back.
SmartPak Ultra Calm… does it work?
No that is one thing she is not. In fact she is a little on the chunky side :). She was just hanging out in PA for the winter without much work since last summer. I am going to send out for some training. The trainer seems confident that this is fixable with some work from both of us. I am also going to try some SmartPak Ultra Calm. Has anyone ever used this product & does it work?
If you really want to make your horse into a nice field hunter…
Start by going out when they walk puppies. Hang out and watch.
Once cubbing starts you never go with the field, find a friend and hill top or ride on the roads. Walk and watch, don’t stay out too long, ride, watch ride away toward home and once in a while head back and watch and listen some more. One of the best starts is to go to the meet early, hang around and then go home - let your horse see hounds and the commotion and leave.
Make sure you horse is turned at least the morning you are go hunting and over night is even better.
Make sure your horse has earplugs everytime you go out riding - they make an amazing difference. Use a properly adjusted martingale. Make sure your cavesson is snugly ( not too tight ) adjusted and your girth is properly adjusted BEFORE you start off.
Make sure your horse knows what whoa means.
Practice jumping regular hunting fences with friends before you ever go hunting. Make sure he will trot to fences as in trappy country trotting is the only safe thing to do.
Make sure you cut back in the feed department for a while as you start your horse - lots of hay and less jet fuel.
Putting a very small green ribbon in your horse’s tail is a nice courtesy to other people out hunting - it means you are on a green horse - everyone used to do this. If he kicks - a very small red ribbon. A very small, thin piece of ribbon braided into a tiny pigtail at the top of the tail then tied into a bow.
No hanging Christmas present bows !
While you are out cruising you newby - NEVER go home across fields where hounds may be hunting later - or the Huntsman may shoot you for ruining a good day’s hunting.
Do not ever consider going with the field !! It takes a while to make a fool proof field hunter. The better part of a season, and when you do start to go with the field make sure you stay well back and if he gets nervous or difficult start all over again.
When you get home put him away properly - check his legs, get all the mud off and make sure he gets a nice dinner.
One day’s hunting first flight with a green horse will sometimes ruin him forever. Goodluck.
JMHO!
Fascinating breeding to contend with too. Is she hot by nature? I don’t think groundwork or dressage helps here…it’s an adrenalin rush situation and the only way to desensitize her to that is to decondition her to those conditions. Plus is she even comfortable in the open field?. Riding at various speeds with varied group sizes is the thing in my humble opinion! What you describe is VERY common with green hunting horses…specially the keen, competetitive or scared ones! Sometimes it’s ok to just let them move on to burn up the excitement. Then take them back when they are a bit spent. I think sometimes eventers are all about control all the time. Let the horse do his thing sometimes! He’s not being bad; he’s just being a horse!!
I respectfully disagree with Wateryglen on the dressage and ground work from eventing. I brought my young horses along using the classical eventing training to create a well balanced horse with excellent brakes and brain. I evented and hunted them up through advanced eventing. The hunting acted as part of the conditioning program and developing the 5th leg canniness over obstacles. They were very brave and stayed sound into their late 20’s.
I still ride and train my greenies the same way. One is the trakehner with lots of arab in her. The other is a very sensitive and forward hanovarian mare.
You just need to find an instructor who understands the system and can teach you the method. That way, the previous training won’t be undone.
Where are you located?
Well, I’m going to have to respectfully AGREE with both Wateryglen and Whicker.
I think it takes a bit of both, desensitizing (been there/done that feeling) and dressage (to provide the framework of where to put those energetic feet).
I think part of your problem may be that you felt that because your horse could manage the jumping and cross country part without difficulty, you thought your horse could hunt. You have now come to the realization that hunting is not just a cross country ride.
Things that may help you over the summer before hunting begins anew.
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Make sure you have a horse that has different speeds within a given gait. Get your horse to walk faster rather than trot to catch up, or extended trot rather than canter. This will allow you to push (encouraging forward) rather than pulling (shutting your horse down and creating tension and frustration).
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Make sure you can do #1 in a group. Begin with 1, 2, then 3, then 5, then 10… Don’t move up in #'s until your horse is happy to be rated.
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Make sure you can pull your horse up and go the opposite direction from the group. Repeat as above with small numbers, increasing group size only when the easier has been accomplished. This is really helpful when your horse is getting over excited in the hunt field and you need to drop down a flight or just go in. This will help to create and independence from the herd.
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Make sure that you tack is comfortable for a long day going cross country. A slightly off fitting saddle might not cause discomfort over flat surfaces, or your horse might be able to mentally handle it for a 45 min hack, but after 3 hours it may become a problem. This is true for saddle and bit.
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Don’t start next cubbing season ubber fit. It takes a fit horse a lot longer to chill from an adrenaline over load.
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Don’t start next season in first flight. This may be the most frustrating part of all, but DON’T get greedy. Slow and steady wins the race. If your horse does well minus the jumping, and can ride in any location of 2nd flight, move up to first. But don’t think that hunt in first flight means you’re done. I would suggest moving from 1st to 2nd to 1st to 2nd on different hunts and if the day permits during the same hunt.
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If you can hunt several days a week, slowly at the beginning, this helps the brain as well. If you can’t hunt several days have long slow rides prior to the hunting day, and leave your horse turned out the night prior to the hunt.
Best of luck.
I found that the more eventing/dressage (climbing the levels, I mean) I did with my former <3 horse (the shiny black one on my website) the worse he was as a field hunter. It’s the exact ‘go out by yourself and jump the moon!’ feeling that you want in an event horse that you do not want in a FIELD hunter. A staff horse on the other hand, or a master’s horse, fine, but lots of eventers just don’t like hunting.
And remember, there’s a good bit of difference between ‘hunting!’ and ‘hunting WELL’. : )
[QUOTE=WildBlue;6225939]
People are always introducing new horses to the hunt field, so your local hunt(s) should have plenty of options to help you bring her along. Hound walking, hunter paces, group trail rides, and–yes–as recommended going back to basics “Yo, listen to your rider!” dressage-y stuff over the summer. Then, next season, start slow and don’t move up to a faster field unless she’s listening to YOU.
It can be a little frustrating to be riding a lot slower than you would prefer at first, but keeping the horse from getting too excited and thinking “Yay! Running!” instead of learning to hunt actually makes the light bulbs go off sooner. One of the ladies in our hunt is a lovely rider on a beautifully-mannered draft cross, normally riding first field. I commented on how well he goes, and she said he spent time in third field (hilltoppers) for 5 years learning to listen to her and become extremely obedient before they moved up. Training: it takes as long as it takes for the results you wish to achieve.[/QUOTE]
Excellent advice, Wild Blue! I wish that many people would remember these two simple paragraphs with a WORLD of good horsemanship behind them…
It will be a long time before I would ever think about moving into first flight (if ever). I would be very content to stay in second flight actually. Hilltopping sounds like my place to hang out for a bit. I want my experience to be a safe and happy one for years to come. She is a good horse without a spooky bone in her body! She just needs a lot of time to get to know that she does not have to eat up the ground when she sees the others take off. I will take the time it takes because I have seen the first hand effects of trying to push something upon a horse that just is not ready for the task at hand. I am located in KY & will have several chances this summer to go out on trail rides & attend different events with local clubs. Thanks for all the great advice.
-Lori
Lori, I think if you concentrate on making sure both you and your horse are having enjoyable outings, everything will fall into place. 
You sound like you’re on the right track, and I predict you will have a marvelous time.
I like to ride fast, but ride a lot of greenies and sour horses, so I often have to slow down and ask myself “Is the question I’m asking my horse on this ride fair to HIM? Am I stressing or overfacing my horse because I’m caught up in what I want to do?” And it kinda really sucks sometimes when I KNOW we could go faster or jump bigger and it would be so much more fun and other people are doing it… Sigh. But the payoff is totally worth it: horses that will take a ridiculous joke, keep their heads, and bail me out when the chips are down. Best. Horses. Ever.
Spooky and strong are two distinctly different problems.
Find a good friend with a quiet horse and start hilltopping with him.
And remember to set her up for success. I’ve brought along a few horses…and when taking them out hound exercising, hilltopping, going on hunter paces etc…bear in mind that there are yahoos out there. Lots of them. So watch out for them and avoid putting your mare into a situation she is not ready to face.
I know coming up to a hill, that there will be people who will BLAST up that hill. I don’t want my horses to learn to do that (unless I ask). I go out with a friend on steady bomb proof horse. We keep an eye out for the “yahoos” and put some distance between them and us (and put the steady horse to “block” the less steady). Swing wide on the hills so when they go galloping up, we can walk up and stay out of each other’s way. You have to know the area and think a bit.
Funny thing…the best horse I’ve ever started hunting was my TB mare who evented through Prelim and is a very forward horse. She took to hunting like a duck to water. Happy to go with the group but just as happy to let them go gallop off with out her. But most horses do require some training to become good hunt horses.
Sounds like you are on the right track getting some good experienced help!
you have some GREAT advice from far more experienced folks that I. I will just add that, in addition to, not instead of, all of the above, you might experiment with bits. you might need a bit that your mare finds harder to ignore. my mare is a total snaffle girl in the ring but I hunted her in a BIG ring gag. also, she started pretty quiet at first for hunting but then got very strong and hard to rate, but after ALOT of miles, settled down enough for us to both have a great time.
eventer/foxhunter here
My OTTB events and foxhunts. I found (at first) that I needed a stronger bit for the hunts. I used a mylar combination bit. HOWEVER, I rode on a longer/lighter rein than dressage/eventing and he only hit the bit when not listening. Now I hunt in the same snaffle I ride dressage and event in! (took a couple years to get there though).
Initially, before hunting. (I did this with my young mare too) I would have a group of friends of mine go out with me in the open fields. I was at a barn of eventers/dressage queens, no hunters. But they were happy to comply. I tested my horse leading, following and in the pack with all 3 gaits and halts and halting and allowing other riders to pass. We did this quite a bit and they all found it quite fun trying to harass me. This made for a controlled environment just to get him used to the pack before going out. From there, I would do summer rides and trail rides before hunt season. The hardest for him was to sight tight for the checks. It took a few hunts for him to learn to conserve his energy. Now he doesn’t budge. But all the “games” I did to prep him for the hunt really helped.
He learned to be happy on a light rein on a hunt with the stronger bit. I rode enough with and without other riders that he never would get dependent on the other horses.
So it just takes some practice with a
little help.
