Thought I would step over here into the western world for advice. I have a 6 yr old warmblood mare that is going under western tack as well as English. She is starting to work around cattle, and barrels too.
Very smart horse, can give you a great ride one day, then the next just lose all forwardness and get balky at certain things.
She does have a “pony” mind.
She lunges fine, move forward on the ground, but can get stubborn and would rather join the other horse in the middle of the ring or just decide to walk from the canter, her decision.
We have carried a dressage whip, but she only kicks out when it is used. I suggested to the girl that rides her to wear spurs and use them as needed.
She is healthy and no physical issues.
Any ideas as to get a horse to want to go forward?
Thank you!
In my opinion, spurs are for lateral movements and refinement. They are NOT used to make an unwilling horse go forward. There are other aides for that.
So it is the girl that is riding this horse, not you? Basically, she should not allow the horse to make its own decisions (like deciding to walk from the canter). Period. When you ask a horse to go a certain pace, it is the horse’s job to maintain that pace until you ask it to do otherwise.
If the rider allows the horse to go from a canter to a walk (or any number of things) then the horse will.
You said the horse is 6, but how far along? 90 days riding? A couple years? By who?
It could very well be that this horse is still green, and needs an experienced rider to continue training her.
If she’s kicking out when you try to use a whip, then I would say you aren’t using it right. Realistically, she should not have “time” to kick out at the whip. If I need to ride a horse with a whip, they are going to get hit HARD once with it when it is needed. When you do it that way, you only have to use it a handful of times and the horse gets the point. But if you nag nag nag at them with a fluffy tap from the whip, they are going to get irritated and possibly kick out. If you use the whip, then mean it.
I don’t know what extent the horse has done with starting work around barrels, but if the rider can’t even keep the horse cantering (and from walking when the horse wants to), the horse is no where near ready to start barrel training.
You say she is healthy and has no physical issues. What have you done thus far to ensure that? Teeth? Chiro? Vet? Farrier? Saddle fit?
When you say she won’t go “forward,” do you mean she is hanging on her forehand and not working from her hindquarters? Is her rider asking her to be forward regardless of what she is being asked to do? A six-year-old can be kind of green to be asked to do different kinds of work, and I am assuming that she is being asked for at least three different kinds of work, cattle, barrels, and whatever you are schooling with English tack. What precisely do you mean by “English” tack, BTW? Are you schooling dressage? H/J? Something else?
As for her inconsistency, does her work ethic change with her tack? Is she one way under English tack and another way under western? Are you changing bits as well as saddles?
You say she has no physical issues. Have you checked her for saddle fit? Are both saddles equally comfortable for her? Are they equally comfortable for her rider, so that she is not getting confusing signals?
How do you know she has no physical issues? The other poster who responded brought up those concerns.
How often are you schooling her, and for how long each time? You say she is being introduced to two different kinds of work – maybe she is confused by the different demands of each?
I have had her since she was born. She was started well on the lunge line, saddled as a 2 yr old, walk trot canter as a 3 yr old. All done correctly and never over worked. I always rode her hunt seat. She is, by nature, a bit on the lazy side, always has been. Now she is still a bit green, as a 4 yr old she had a lot of time off to grow, (WB slow to mature) and started back up a s a 5 yr old. She has a tendency to balk, especially if she does not want to go to one corner of the arena, or sees something spooky. She is not a spooky horse, actually quite brave. As far as barrels goes, I meant she is just walking or trotting around them. We are experimenting with different things to try with her. Saddle fit is fine, she has had chiro, dental etc…very healthy horse.
I think beau159 was correct with the whip, usually it is a series of taps. One good crack would probably get her attention.
Now please do not think we are flogging her, only looking for a way to keep her attention and moving forward without any rider exhausting themselves…whew!
OP, you need to go back to basic groundwork and make sure this mare understands what Go means. And if she is not paying attention, she does not have a basic foundation on the ground. I would not be looking around for external factors to keep her mind occupied (barrels or cows) I would expect her mind to be on her rider.
In my experience retraining such horses that were bred and raised and started and trained by their owner, those horses just don’t generally have a work ethic installed, but have learned to train their owners right along and do what they want or compromise.
Ok if that is what the owner wants in a horse, some do and get along just fine.
When the owner decides to do more than amenably get along, starts needing to push the horse, they find out they have a balky and at times starting to get a bit fresh if not dangerous horse, while wondering why that horse is still so sweet and nice most of the time.
When we raised and trained our own horses, we sent them somewhere else for boot camp when very young and it made a world of difference with those we kept here and “never gave us any trouble”, until they did a bit here and there.
Of course, the race colts, going to the track, that solved that, as there they had to buckle up and learn and do what told.
When for some reason one didn’t go there and just stayed here as a ranch horse, well, as we experienced with those we had to retrain for others, that horse was never really 100% willing and a bit on the lazy side.
That was fine when older and a steady-Eddie, not so good when young and needing to be told to shape up, as your mare is doing.
I would try to find a very good trainer and have them put some months in some other environment, so she learns a whole different routine, has to think and adapt to new things and people and ways of doing.
I bet her balkiness will fade without anyone needing to do more than train her, the new environment alone will straighten her up considerably for you.
We used to call those horses, not all do that, we had a few also, owner raised brats.
Comes with the territory, some just turn out that way and when you realize that is happening, as you do, changing their management really goes long way to get them past that bump in training.
Whatever you do, I would not keep her or be handled and ridden where she can keep doing wrong, resisting when she doesn’t want to do something and self assured in her place in life, which could be part of the reason she is maturing and asserting herself in ways you may not like.
For what it’s worth, I only like using dressage whips on well trained horses and use it as a reminder for more forward or to more precisely move the haunches over when introducing lateral work. (Coming from the English side.) On the western side, I have never seen any western trainer I’ve worked with use a dressage whip. Crop, bat, or reins only.
The reason why, is a crop (or reins) creates a sudden sharp burst of energy with a loud noise attached to it. It encourages the horse to react big and move forward explosively. That’s what I want from a horse. If I have to use my crop, they better gallop away from it. If they don’t, they get smacked until they do. My personal mare didn’t understand this. She is also lazy and a smack would result in a kick or a buck. Kicking and bucking is a backward (or at least stationary) action and not correct. Generally a second (but occasionally third) smack results in the correct forward reaction. She then gets the reward of cantering off without being bothered by me.
I do use a dressage whip on the same horse sometimes, but it’s for a different purpose. And if we are ever having a day that we struggle with forward, the whip will get switched with a crop, even mid-ride.
I would expect something better than this from you, Bluey.
A work ethic can be undone just as easily on a well started horse or a well trained horse , if the rider doesn’t keep the upper hand.
Having bred, raised and trained most all my horses since high school( long, long ago) I can tell you they do as I ask and there is no need to carry a whip or use spurs. We hit a wall now and again but we get past it. It all depends on the rider.
In the OP’s case I do believe we have a green horse, too many different disciplines, a non aggressive type rider who picks at the horse and is afraid to discipline. Things go downhill fast in these situations.
[QUOTE=candyappy;8224352]
I would expect something better than this from you, Bluey.
A work ethic can be undone just as easily on a well started horse or a well trained horse , if the rider doesn’t keep the upper hand.
Having bred, raised and trained most all my horses since high school( long, long ago) I can tell you they do as I ask and there is no need to carry a whip or use spurs. We hit a wall now and again but we get past it. It all depends on the rider.
In the OP’s case I do believe we have a green horse, too many different disciplines, a non aggressive type rider who picks at the horse and is afraid to discipline. Things go downhill fast in these situations.[/QUOTE]
Don’t know what do you mean with your first paragraph, other than you may have somehow taken what I said as a personal criticism?
If you reread my post, you may realize that is the way some horses are when started and kept under the same management, some of ours also.
It is what happens sometimes, stating a fact we have discussed with other trainers many times, some call it the hot-house horse effect.
Horses raised in one place under the same management and with utmost care to their comfort, that didn’t have to cope with all kinds of demands they some times didn’t like, which helps create that kind of work ethic this mare seems to lack, since other reasons, like physical discomfort or confusion have been ruled out.
Similar happens in humans also some times, that they then have to grow up in a hurry once they leave home.
Not saying that is so here, with the OP’s mare, but that is one more way to think about such situations.
If the OP thinks that may be part of her problems, getting the horse in a different situation for a bit could help.
Just one more opinion, no need to get prickly about it, really.
[QUOTE=candyappy;8224352]
I would expect something better than this from you, Bluey.
A work ethic can be undone just as easily on a well started horse or a well trained horse , if the rider doesn’t keep the upper hand.
Having bred, raised and trained most all my horses since high school( long, long ago) I can tell you they do as I ask and there is no need to carry a whip or use spurs. We hit a wall now and again but we get past it. It all depends on the rider.
In the OP’s case I do believe we have a green horse, too many different disciplines, a non aggressive type rider who picks at the horse and is afraid to discipline. Things go downhill fast in these situations.[/QUOTE]
Actually I agree with Bluey. I have seen a lot of spoiled home bred horses that have their owners number. I have seem home bred horses owned by professional trainers that need to go out to a different trainer. Horses that are home bred may need someone else to get the horse to realize that they are not in charge.
So that being said, getting the horse to learn to go forward can be tricky. Following another horse can be really helpful. Both cantering on the circle opposite of each other, following through obstacles, barrels and even working on moving cattle around. Going out on the trail and learning to move out there can really help too.
Good luck.
Another “vote” for Bluey here. 
I am no expert, but Bluey, you have just described to a T the homebred, owner-“trained” horse of someone I have ridden with.
OP, I am not knowledgeable enough to add much helpful info here, other than to say that you are getting some excellent feedback and advice here, and I agree with those who say send mare to a professional trainer, which is IME is a great way to start a greenie.
Thank you all for good advice. 
[QUOTE=Wonders12;8224229]
For what it’s worth, I only like using dressage whips on well trained horses and use it as a reminder for more forward or to more precisely move the haunches over when introducing lateral work. (Coming from the English side.) On the western side, I have never seen any western trainer I’ve worked with use a dressage whip. Crop, bat, or reins only.
The reason why, is a crop (or reins) creates a sudden sharp burst of energy with a loud noise attached to it. It encourages the horse to react big and move forward explosively. That’s what I want from a horse. If I have to use my crop, they better gallop away from it. If they don’t, they get smacked until they do. My personal mare didn’t understand this. She is also lazy and a smack would result in a kick or a buck. Kicking and bucking is a backward (or at least stationary) action and not correct. Generally a second (but occasionally third) smack results in the correct forward reaction. She then gets the reward of cantering off without being bothered by me.
I do use a dressage whip on the same horse sometimes, but it’s for a different purpose. And if we are ever having a day that we struggle with forward, the whip will get switched with a crop, even mid-ride.[/QUOTE]
You make some great points, but I do disagree with the use of the dressage whip, and I ride Western. If I have a bit of a balky horse, I do some ground work with the horse and use the dressage whip to get the horse moving promptly. When I get on, the first thing I do is Go, which is leg followed immediately with a smack on the haunches with the whip. I hate to nag with my legs, so with some horses I will ride with the dressage whip for a while. I also use it if I am doing a lot of lateral work and find the horse is lagging a little behind.
I find it to be a great aid for me when used judiciously. I don’t need the big explosive move forward that you do, just a little extra pep in the step sometimes.
do you have a roundpen?
have you done any groundwork?
have you established a “go forward” cue from the ground first?
I know I have mentioned him before, but check out Warwick Schiller. The video subscription is the best value on the net for horses, for $25 US a month, you have access to over 315 real time training videos. Beware tho, that if you get added to his FB site, the first questions are…How’s your groundwork? and have you done Focus and Balance or hooking on? The methodology and theory he uses is applicable to all types of riding and all breeds of horses. It produces a horse that is quiet, listens and has a sensitivity to your cues you won’t find anywhere else. But, you have to follow the method, and it starts with groundwork.
[QUOTE=threedogpack;8228601]
do you have a roundpen?
have you done any groundwork?
have you established a “go forward” cue from the ground first?
I know I have mentioned him before, but check out Warwick Schiller. The video subscription is the best value on the net for horses, for $25 US a month, you have access to over 315 real time training videos. Beware tho, that if you get added to his FB site, the first questions are…How’s your groundwork? and have you done Focus and Balance or hooking on? The methodology and theory he uses is applicable to all types of riding and all breeds of horses. It produces a horse that is quiet, listens and has a sensitivity to your cues you won’t find anywhere else. But, you have to follow the method, and it starts with groundwork.[/QUOTE]
I like him too, although have not yet done the subscription thing! I’m taking a class for my profession now, and don’t want to get distracted. I might do it in the winter, when it’s too cold and nasty to ride.
