Marilyn Little's horse bleeds yet again. Red rag to a groom.

[hb]

A coworker of mine shows on the QH circuit. She has told me the tails are tested at the in-gate, someone pokes the horse with a pin or something to see if it reacts. There are vets who specialize in horses that compete on this show circuit who inject the tail with just the right about of some numbing agent to keep the horse from swishing its tail in class, but not so numb that it won’t react when poked with a pin or whatever.

Coworker (I do NOT consider her a friend, even though she thinks we have a horsey connection) was getting ready for a big class and her trainer poked her horse’s tail to be sure it would react. Apparently the vet had overdone it because the tail was dead still. Coworker and trainer were in a panic because there are also rules about scratching right before a class starts, I think she said the tail gets tested anyway if they scratch too close the class time and they could dq’d from the show. So same vet that does the tail injections also fakes some paperwork saying he was treating the horse for colic and it couldn’t show that day.

Big relief! says coworker, so matter of fact about the whole situation, as if she isn’t actually cheating. It’s apparently so common place on that circuit that in her mind it’s no different from hock injections.

[Belowthesalt]

@findeight

Actually, if they are going to do it, surgical fix would seem to be the safest ( basically nerve it). If you’ve ever seen the consequences of a botched behind the barn injection of lord knows what concoction you’d agree with that even if you disagree with ignoring the rules and doing it at all. Same with leaving the rubber tie on too long and paralyzing the tail. Dunno what the hells the matter with people…uneducated owners/groups not asking questions not wanting to know the how, just the result I guess,

I understand they inject alcohol. Bleaah. Just as one might blame judges for rewarding fancy moving but incorrect dressage horses, I think in the western world, it’s the fault of the judges for rewarding “zombie” horses. I showed a little bit western when I was in my teens/20s, and that was “California” style - horse up in the bridle, arched neck, but a slack rein, a head set, basically, but it was a lot prettier than the nose at the fetlocks style that was and remains prevalent. And you were expected to have a FAST walk, a slow lope *(but still 3 beat or you would be penalized) and a two beat jog. Even though I understand the rule now is that the ears should not be lower than the withers for more than 2-3 strides, you still see the horses with the super-low heads, and they do win… Whatever. But if you want zombie horses, then you don’t want the tail to MOVE—AT ALL.

[runNjump86]

@trubandloki

I think we (general) should all work together to make all the sports horse friendly. Standing around saying ‘those people are more evil, we are not as bad’ are not helping the big picture.

I agree 100%!! But the vast majority of people have no idea the tactics used in the stock horse industry and talk about how cruel and abusive racing and Eventing are (especially after #bloodymarilyn’s latest incident).

[findeight]

@ladyj79

She will not at present be a viable candidate for our show jumping team. If she quits eventing and turns to show jumping exclusively she has the potential to be a viable force in the sport. There is however much much more competition, the costs are exponentially higher as these riders compete nearly every weekend with multiple horses, and have significantly deeper pockets than eventers on average.

No, no, no, no, no. Just no. She has tried that without cracking the top tier, why she switched to Eventing…or so I heard. Any rider seeking to reach the elite levels has to be able to attract the type Owner/clients who can finance that venture, more important, that rider needs to be able to retain that owner/client and keep them happy with more then just results. Obviously results are important but there’s far more to satisfied clients then that, particularly knowledgeable, ethical clients. That’s as important as being able to jump the big sticks and where many hit the wall as far as advancing to that elite level.

[ladyj79]

@findeight

No, no, no, no, no. Just no. She has tried that without cracking the top tier, why she switched to Eventing…or so I heard. Any rider seeking to reach the elite levels has to be able to attract the type Owner/clients who can finance that venture, more important, that rider needs to be able to retain that owner/client and keep them happy with more then just results. Obviously results are important but there’s far more to satisfied clients then that, particularly knowledgeable, ethical clients. That’s as important as being able to jump the big sticks and where many hit the wall as far as advancing to that elite level.

(I know)

unless one is very rich. Her family has money, they may play rich, but I’m sure her time in show jumping has made them uncomfortably aware that they really aren’t. Still, she is welcome to try…again

[WasthatC]

@ladyj79

Also there is literally no way to assert that the rider or equipment any rider any equipment did not cause the horse to bite itself. Just eliminate for blood in the mouth so we don’t have this subjective nonsense, because for the millionth time who thinks it’s a cool idea to have bloody mouthed horses running around in any event?! It is just so self evidently sheisty.

“It is just so self evidently sheisty.”

Best description of her yet.

[ladyj79]

@WasthatC

“It is just so self evidently sheisty.”

Best description of her yet.

it’s more meant to describe the current terrible FEI rules and priorities. Like how do they not understand at all how bad these images are for the welfare of the sport that are allowed under current rules? I as always feel like I’m taking crazy pills :lol::lol:

[Denali6298]

Has ML ever run a 4* besides Kentucky?

[Glyphica]

@ladyj79

it’s more meant to describe the current terrible FEI rules and priorities. Like how do they not understand at all how bad these images are for the welfare of the sport that are allowed under current rules? I as always feel like I’m taking crazy pills :lol::lol:

I’m taking them too then. I can’t think of a single reason to allow bloody mouths in any equestrian sport.

[vineyridge]

@Denali6298

Has ML ever run a 4* besides Kentucky?

Yes. She finished 4th on Scandalous at Luhmuhlen last year; and she finished 18th on Demeter at Pau in 2013.

[yaya]

The gadget in this article looks like it would be a good way to objectively determine if a noseband is too tight. http://www.eurodressage.com/2018/05/15/remit-submitted-ban-tight-nosebands-new-zealand

[tbchick84]

@yaya

The gadget in this article looks like it would be a good way to objectively determine if a noseband is too tight. http://www.eurodressage.com/2018/05/15/remit-submitted-ban-tight-nosebands-new-zealand

Pretty pathetic this is even needed. Last I checked, all humans have fingers.

[MsRidiculous]

I think a standardization of measurement is a fantastic idea. Nobody can argue with it, and there’s zero variation in size. The more black and white the rules are, the better off everyone will be.

[WildLittleWren]

@tbchick84

Pretty pathetic this is even needed. Last I checked, all humans have fingers.

Sadly it looks like what is needed. People who want to bend or break the rules have less chance against such a standardized measurement

[ladyj79]

Fingers aren’t standard. We absolutely need a tool to objectively measure.

[EventerAJ]

How is that tool supposed to measure a fig-8 noseband? I am not a noaeband cranker, but if I adjust a fig-8 to have 2 fingers under the disc, it will be sloppy sliding all over.

Personally, I tighten my nosebands about like my watch-- snug enough not to twist or wobble, but not so tight as to be uncomfortable on my wrist.

I have two horses who really go better in a snug (not cruelly tight!) flash or figure-8. I have two others who are best with a two-finger plain cavesson. I wish all horses went like the latter two, but they are all individuals.

[ladyj79]

This is why I suggested earlier developing a tool to ascertain actual pressure and to numerically define what ppsi for instance is allowed.

[MNEventer]

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but…

If they start cracking down on noseband tightness, they also need to make sure there’s nothing nefarious going on in the horse’s mouth. People could take a page from the dark side of the reining world and start wiring their horses’ mouths shut. And if it’s not explicitly against the rules, we may see the same reactions from TPTB that we’re getting now. Maybe requiring riders to unbridle their horses right after their test. Would also be able to catch any potential blood on the bit too.

[Willesdon]

[QUOTE
If they start cracking down on noseband tightness, they also need to make sure there’s nothing nefarious going on in the horse’s mouth. People could take a page from the dark side of the reining world and start wiring their horses’ mouths shut. And if it’s not explicitly against the rules, we may see the same reactions from TPTB that we’re getting now.[/QUOTE]

How depressing.

At a very recent fence judge briefing, Eric Winter, as TD for the event, stated that after the shameful display of whip abuse at Badminton we all have an extra obligation to ensure any poor riding or any abuse of the horse is observed, reported and dealt with immediately because it is at the lower levels that the sport particularly needs to educate riders and ensure horse welfare is a priority at all times. It is not just the high profile riders at big events.

IMO rule changes are all very well, and necessary in relation to blood and when a whip is used, but fundamentally it is about the riders, their empathy and knowledge, their mindset and reasons for competing. Or perhaps put another way, our empathy and knowledge, our mindset and our reasons for competing. We are all responsible for our animals and our sport.

I find it interesting that Ollie Townend immediately expressed remorse and contrition but Marilyn Little…

[ladyj79]

Oliver absolutely did not express contrition immediately; he was not issued a verbal warnings until later in the evening, after public outcry. He then said I can win pretty or I can win ugly, and that’s why I’m a multiple time national champion and current world number one. This was unsurprisingly met with more public outcry, sponsors started dropping him and then and only then did he say oh my bad.

also no harm in a standard bit/mouth check along with checking the noseband before heading in (on deck/in the box).