Does anyone on this board have an Aberjack baby by any chance? Since breeding season is over I have been fortunate enough to ride him, and he is truly the most incredible horse I’ve ever sat on. I was talking with Denny and he suggested asking if anyone who posts here has an Aberjack baby and would be willing to post some pictures. Let me know if you know of any of his babies out there. Thanks a lot!
Carrie
These other stallions that you mention, Robby and Evalee and JER, etc. and that you like. What did they actually do in the ring or on the track?Were they themselves proven athletes at high levels like Loyal Pal and Aberjack? Just wondering why you keep knocking other stallions, if you have something to gain by that, or youre just venting? Did the people at Tamarack injure you in some way that makes you carry on so? Have any of you three actually visited that farm? Did they treat you in some terrible way when you went there? Were the stallions that you saw there so badly made or souch terrible movers that it offended you all so profoundly? You certainly cant leave it alone, can you? Becca
Denny is one of the only breeders advertising TB stallions, and one of the only breeders whose advertising shows he is clearly interested in event horses.
It is great to hear about some of these other stallions out there. Catherston Dazzler sounds great … and I’ve never come across him before. We mare owners won’t know about them if they’re not advertised or listed somewhere…
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rebecca:
These other stallions that you mention, Robby and Evalee and JER, etc. and that you like. What did they actually do in the ring or on the track?Were they themselves proven athletes at high levels like Loyal Pal and Aberjack? Just wondering why you keep knocking other stallions, if you have something to gain by that, or youre just venting? Did the people at Tamarack injure you in some way that makes you carry on so? Have any of you three actually visited that farm? Did they treat you in some terrible way when you went there? Were the stallions that you saw there so badly made or souch terrible movers that it offended you all so profoundly? You certainly cant leave it alone, can you? Becca<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I haven’t visited Tamarack Hill Farm, nor did anyone there physically injure me.
As a business professional, accredited in my profession, I had a professional experience that left me with question and doubt. But as I said in a previous post, I am very quick to forgive and don’t begrudge the operation for it.
I would certainly consider visiting the farm to stallion shop if I ever found myself in a position to breed a mare, and my personal stallion of choice wasn’t available.
Tell me, are you involved with this operation, and what is the reason for your personal bias?
Robby
You may be only one person in the world, but you may also be the world to one person.
There’s a 2002 Aberjack filly for sale, listed in last week’s Chronicle (or the week before, I get it late in CA). Says she’s nice and correct. Asking $10,000 for this weanling.
(Maybe we should call for pictures – then we’ll finally see that elusive Aberjack foal!)
I second Robby’s disappointment in Tamarack’s customer service. As I mentioned earlier, they ignored my emails. While I’m sure there are a lot of tire-kickers out there, when you’re selling stallion services at high prices, you should be following up every inquiry with at least a brief response. And it annoys me that Rox Dene’s owners probably got better treatment than some of us.
Robby, I saw in your Radnor notes you were stabled near Steuart Pitman’s eventing stallion, Salute the Truth. Any thoughts worth sharing?
Another note on Delta: the same Eventing article said she was out of a ‘rodeo mare’. I figured this was a cattle-station-bred TBx. But if she got her gaits and movement from her dam, this means she didn’t get it from the stallion Aberlou – this might mean he passed on jumping ability but not elastic movement. I mention this only because, as a mare owner, I look at that info in a particular way.
re: videos vs. in the flesh. You CAN discern quite a bit from photos and video, especially if you can get your hands on a good amount of material. My only shock when I saw CD in the UK was how BIG he is, but the angles were the same, the movement was exactly how it looked.
quietgirl – do you have photos of your Dazzler foal? I’d love to see her. Is the mare a full TB or TBx?
but that Mark Todd “reply” sounds just like the press release written up in Horse and Hound when Aberjack was first sent to stand in the US.
Perhaps Archie was just pulling out a quote to illustrate what it was that drew Mark to the horse. Which indeed it does.
But I highly doubt that is a personal reply to our little thread from the great eventer himself 
FWIW, I appreciate the discussion but would like to add that when I recently emailed Tamarack to inquire if they would consider helping me in deciding if one of their stallions would work better for my mare should I consider breeding her this spring (aka I would send them photos and video of my mare), I got a prompt and pleasant “absolutely we’ll try to help” via email in response.
If Dressage is a Symphony… Eventing is Rock & Roll!!!
“All’s well that ends with cute E.R. doctors, I always say.” – Buffy
Jair–where did I say that I thought they were perfect for every mare? I said clearly, If you don’t like them, don’t breed to them, and in fact said I wouldn’t breed to Wintry or Aberjack myself because of size issues for me? I can see you saying I shouldn’t respond because I know the players personally, but I no where said it’s because I think Tamarck is the only place in the world to find a good stallion. Ialso mentioned that I though CD was a lovely animal. You are 100% correct, no horse is perfect, or perfect for every mare, a cure for all evils, etc.
I also, on this and other threads, have worked very hard to not make this a TB vs warmblood, import vs. domestic issue. I ONLY want people to examine what part all the importation MIGHT be playing in the lack of a strong industry here. I didn’t call them bad people, or bad breeders, or bad anything.
As far as the jabs, yes, I’m sorry, I see them, and it has to do with several other threads on this exact topic and a particular poster, not JER, who seems to be offended that Tamarack runs ads, and can get large stud fees for their horses. I don’t care if they criticize the stallions–to each his own–but to act as though because THEY personally don’t care for them that tamarack is somehow fooling everyone is silly. I wasn’t a particular fan of the stallion Nick Of Diamonds–not my type–but I certianly don’t think that means everyone should listen to me and not like him either. Good grief, I’m not 12. I’m just suggesting the the issues vs individuals line got crossed here a bit (especially since the original posert had RIDDEN Aberjack–not much better personal experience upon which to create an opinion than that).
I too have generally found your posts enjoyable, but I really feel like you came out swinging at me here with no justification. I don’t think I was mean, nasty, or named named. But whatever, bash away.
Prussian Blue’s first foal is actually a long yearling. I have her!
jer, hi i do have photos but i am a bit computer illerate. i will try to scan some to send to you. the mother is a daughter of Hot Rumour, who was by the great eventing stallion Ben Faerie, who was also the father of Priceless, 1984 bronze medalist los angles(ginny leng) 1985 badminton winner, and 1986 world champion (gawler australia) , Nightcap who won burhley in the mid eighties, Minerva, full sister to Nightcap, who is the mother of Welton Envoy, who won rolex **** in 2000, and Welton Ambassador. my mare was born, bred and raised at Brendonhill in Somerset and was out of Diana Scott’s champion hunter mare Lady Di. she i believe is a 7/8 ths bred (1/8 ID) i bought her from diana as a 3 year old and sent her to Catherston to be put in foal before shipping her last fall. it’s nice to communicate with someone else interested in breeding.
As long as one is speaking from one’s own experience & not engaging in the “he said” kind of innuendo, why shouldn’t we post our experiences with farm’s customer service–people certainly post their personal experiences on other topics such as clinicians. Why should a farm’s customer service be a “no-no”?
Goodness, that’s what this board is all about–helping each other by posting our own knowledge. I don’t think anyone is “throwing flames” when they say, “I contacted this farm & this is what they did in response.”
www.rougelandfarm.com Home of TB stallion Alae Rouge, sire of our filly Rose, ribbon-winner on the line at Dressage at Devon.
Mark Todd is no dummy about what constitutes a top horse.He was selected “FEI Horseman of the Century.” He hoped that Aberjack would be his last Olympic horse, but Aberjack had a mild colic in the lay-off period after running in his 1st 5 advanced events, and when he got i.v.fluids, there must have been a dirty needle, because he got a massive infection that compromised his immune system.
David and Karen OConnor are no dummies either, and they are the ones who urged Mark to stand the horse in the states. As for the race horses,I looked up the records of Prussian Blue, Loyal Pal, and Reputed Testamony. Collectively they raced 199 times,won 40 races, placed 2nd 39 times, placed 3rd 29 times, won 10 stakes races, placed in 25 others, and won 1,233,000 dollars. Those are facts that can be looked up and verified. Many sport horse breeders have very little insight into what it takes to be a successful stakes winning race horse, and dont have much of an idea how much sheer athleticism is involved, and how that is transposed into other pursuits.
As the oldest offspring of Loyal Pal are about 6 or 7, and those of the others younger, it remains to be seen how they will do. Ed Minchins Loyal Pal 3 yr. old was a top finisher in this years IHF.
Time will tell, I suppose.
And most enjoyable, until I was just about to post when JER stole my thunder with comments about the gallop.
Problems with proving event stallions in the US (other than the “get famous and die” factor already mentioned):
1.) fewer upper level events = fewer upper level event horses to prove upper level event stallions.
2.) fewer riders capable of/interested in riding real talent and so breed for temperament instead, making “proving” upper level talent that much more difficult, by the numbers
3.) more money than sense in a lot of breeding “programs” (a la the "every baby is perfect syndrome, etc.)
4.) a LOT more “give away” (unproven, often unsound, often capable of doing nothing except reproducing) mares being bred, and thus diluting the potential of good stallions
5.) no system to acknowledge the success of stallions’ get
6.) not very well-educated consumers–in all the talk about Denny’s stallions, it took 5 pages before stride was discussed and yet you never hear even the stallion owners themselves describing their stallions’ length and type of stride knowledgeably
7.) lots of “programs” designed to bring in the stud fees and sell babies, NOT necessarily to produce upper level horses [sorry, this one is my pet peeve since I’m sacrificing a lot to do exactly the opposite]
8.) virtually no breeding of stallion prospects specifically for eventing–they are “found” (or imported), not bred, resulting in very few stallions with event-proven relatives
9.) mare owners who do not keep in touch with (and/or who are not ENCOURAGED to keep in touch with) stallion owner/managers so that the get can be tracked, also a huge country which makes tracking babies that much more difficult
10.) trainers who couldn’t care less about breeding and so rarely help to promote a stallion (although I think this is starting to change with some excellent examples out there now)
Sportponies Unlimited
Specializing in fancy, athletic, 3/4-TB ponies.
http://www.sportponiesunlimited.com
“Aberjack is not put together very well. Looked like about 3 different horses, but they say he’s very good tempered (although when I saw him he hadn’t started breeding yet, so that may have changed!) and a great jumper. I saw him move and was impressed, but I’ve been told he takes a lot of leg and I prefer a more forward type horse. I didn’t think much of Prussian Blue. I really liked Wintry Oak and Mokhieba best.”
It’s interesting to hear everyone’s different points of view on Jacko and Blue and all. I didn’t know this before, but Mark Todd looked at hundreds of horses before deciding on Aberjack - he said that he couldn’t believe he found all he wanted in one horse that was so well put together. Personally jacko is my favorite! Riding him and Blue really helped my dressage work because I was able to feel exceptionally talented horses underneath me. I would love to see the pics of the baby if you have it 
thanks!!
Carrie
[This message was edited by Greenbean on Oct. 08, 2002 at 04:26 PM.]
[This message was edited by Greenbean on Oct. 08, 2002 at 04:28 PM.]
FWIW, I was picking up on some anti-tamarack thoughts here as well.
Perhaps what Heather is objecting to isn’t that people are finding their appropriate stallions overseas, but that people aren’t even considering looking here. You’ll see that in breeding as well as buying made horses… as well as a TON of other things here in this country (cars, etc.)… if its from elsewhere, it must be better. It’s not that they aren’t better, in this case, it’s not that they aren’t exactly what you might be looking for. But when people completely discount what IS here in this country (in this case the American TB) simply on the attitude of “foreign is better” without taking some time to investigate… well… I get a bit defensive as well (as the very proud owner of an OTTB). Am I assuming too much, Heather?
If Dressage is a Symphony… Eventing is Rock & Roll!!!
“All’s well that ends with cute E.R. doctors, I always say.” – Buffy
ok, now i read the first page. i had missed that.
well, to each his own. i like Aberjack.
Anybody know what the breeding fees are on Denny’s stallions for 2003? Couldn’t get to it on his website.
“Dream as if you’ll live forever, and live as if you’ll die tomorrow.” – James Dean
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JER:
Maggymay, you’re right, Dazzler babies tend to be large. My mare is compact and refined – 16.1hh at the withers, 15.2hh at her back. But my filly is VERY tall and muscular – all the string tests put her at 17+hh but I remain in denial. She will be no bigger than 16.2hh. Ok, maybe 16.3hh.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
OMG 
Hmm, well that’s not going to work. Mare is like 17hh or so, wore hind Ulsters on the front, a 6" bit and a 54" girth. Baby would presumably be bigger
I’ll have to post a pic of her- she actually looks very like the pic of Aberjack that I’ve seen. Extension she could do- collection, uh, maybe, if she wanted to, typical TB but she was incredibly athletic and sensible… I’d prefer a less “leggy” looking stud for her (if I ever get to breed her that is- she’s currently out on semi-permanent loan). Her first filly was very nice, better conformed than her mom, if somewhat evil. Haven’t seen the colt yet- by a turf-bred stallion, supposedly VERY nice and sweet.
I’m really thinking RID or ISH. The TBs I liked the best so far are Reputed Testimony and Never Bend Better or a son. Lots of Bend babies around and I only hear good things about them. I will have to check out Denny’s other studs though. Thanks for the candid info all, esp from those of you who know the horses well
deltawave, I agree with you on the ‘Denny mystique.’ The website shows a few babies for a few of the stallions, none for Aberjack, none for Reputed Testamony. However, they go on at length about all the great mares that are in LP’s recent book. While this is a useful marketing tool from the ego-stroking point of view – “Rox Dene’s owners chose Loyal Pal and you can too!” – it is not terribly relevant information from an actual breeding perspective. Ok, so he’s been bred to 300+ mares – that’s a lot of babies out there and that’s a lot of babies we aren’t hearing about. You can surmise there must be some level of satisfaction because his stud fee stays high and his book stays full, but I’d still like to know what the little LPs are up to.
IIRC, Denny’s now-deceased stallion Epic Win DID have several notable event horses among his get, and Mokhieba has had some event/SJ successes as well. But Mokhieba, who I think is gorgeous, tends to produce very hot horses. Hot, I was told, to the point where it’s a temperament problem.
I advise anyone with plans to breed their own eventer to look in England. The West Kington Stallion Bank (just to mention one group) has a number of top sport horse sires available for international shipping. Stud fees are lower in general, stallion performance and progeny records are much stronger.
This leads me to mention a stallion marketing campaign that I find particularly refreshing – the one for Brandenberg’s Windstar. While I do not care for this type of horse for myself, I was very impressed with how the video and literature clearly communicated that this stallion’s strength was in producing steady-eddie all-rounders for the amateur rider. This is a very good option for mare owners to have.
She’s very attractive, much more white on her than her mother and a rich color that doesn’t bleach out like her mother’s coat.
Unfortunately, she’s very small – only 15-1 and I doubt if she’s going to get any bigger. Mom is 16-2; grandmom was 16-1; mom’s half-sister is 16-1. Don’t know what happened to the filly.
But if we ever get around to backing her, I think with the way she moves, she should make a nice children’s hunter or child’s eventer or maybe a small person’s dressage mount. Don’t know how she jumps yet though. Actually, I think she would make a terrific polo pony – she’s assertive, doesn’t mind close quarters, quick. I know of people nearby who do some training/selling of polo ponies, but that’s out of my area and might cost us more than we could expect to get out of her.
Maybe one of these days, we’ll get some current photos of her and post them.
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