Mark Todd's Aberjack

My dad was a breeder of working dogs for the military, police force and for families in the 60’s and 70’s. One of the things he used to say over and over and over, when talking to people about breeding was “If you find a good one, find the parents and breed THEM again.” When you stand the “good one”, you have to introduce new genes, and the mix has not been seen, but you KNOW what the parents produce - not that they will produce it every time.

Performance is a good indicator, but the performance of a stallion is really attributed to how good the cross that created him was. When that stallion produces successful horses of his own, THEN you have something.

Just want to say thanks for the introduction to CD. I think all of Denny’s horses are very nice as well, but I am familiar with them. It is nice to learn something new.

I refrained from replying to this thread, becasue (disclaimer) my hubsand and I consider Denny and May to be good friends, so I’ll admit to some bias on the topic.

This is hardly the first time it’s come up, and I’m constantly surprised by the thinly veiled jabs at Denny and May that appear. These two people have done nothing but give to the sport of eventing for the last 40 years, and there was a time when they were the ONLY ones speaking about the importance of breeding. They are one of the very, very few left who still see the value in our wonderful American TB, and who are crying alone in the wilderness about their continued viability as a sporthorse. If you don’t care for their stallions, fine, then don’t breed to them. But why bash them personally, make cracks about a “mystique”, or act as though they are “putting something over” on the consumer because they run (gasp) ads? It’s especially upsetting, because if you actually knew Denny and May at all, you would know they are the last people to believe in their own hype and mystique–two more down to earth, focused, and hard working horseman you have never met.

OK, that being said, let’s now eliminate Denny and May specifically from the topic at hand, and let me pose this question. Several of you who are CD fans (and FWIW, I think he’s a gorgoues stallion with a good record), have mentioned choosing to go through the whole shipped semen riggamarole because of him being “part of true breeding program which is not avaialble in this country.”

OK, so let’s say I don’t argue with you. My question is, if everyone keep trapsing off to import horses and semen from overseas, (nothing wrong with it, BTW, I’d do it myself if I could afford it), how is it we will magically create these wonderful programs here, if NO ONE SUPPORTS THEM. Yes, our programs are embryonic by European standars, but if we turn our backs on them, they will never grow and improve–why bother, when all the cutomers keep going overseas anyway?

I’m not trying to do US horses good, foreign bad thing here, because I really don’t feel that way–I think there are good nad bad horses everywhere. But, I see so many people wringing their hands and wondering why we can’t have a system them works, when the answer seems as obvious as hell to me–buy domestic–semen, horses, whatever. If you want our domestic industry to grow, then you have to support it with your $$. If you don’t care, that’s fine, but don’t complain about how our system is bad, then shrug your shoulders and go overseas, because that’s like complaining about how Bush sucks when you didn’t vote in the election.

FWIW, my favorite Denny stallion as a whole package is Rep, though I’d breed a hot mare to Pal, and a quiet one to Blue (who is really, really, beautiful, but every inch a TB). I like Aberjack, but he’s been throwing pretty true to size and I persoanlly need something a little bigger, but he has 10 gaits and a 12 jump. The pictures don’t do him justice–you need to see him playing through a difficult combination or prancing through his mediums to get a real taste for what an athlete the horse is. Wintry is tough guy, and a good athlete, but again, for me persoanlly, size is an issue. Mohkheiba has gone back to the gentleman who used to stand him.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Heather:
Jair–where did I say that I thought they were perfect for every mare? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was my fault - it was a generic comment of mine and not aimed at you directly. I should have said that

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
As far as the jabs, yes, I’m sorry, I see them, and it has to do with several other threads on this exact topic and a particular poster, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Other threads, maybe. But I’m responding to THIS one. How am I supposed to know that you have read other threads that you didn’t like?

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I too have generally found your posts enjoyable, but I really feel like you came out swinging at me here with no justification. I don’t think I was mean, nasty, or named named. But whatever, bash away.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bashing? BASHING??? Good grief Heather. That is ridiculous. Ask Robby, I don’t bash people! I just pointed out that you seemed overly biased on this topic and IMO unable to see some of the comments from a middle standpoint. I know none of these horses personally, and as a fair-minded person, I really don’t see what all the fuss was about.

I said “proven themselves in eventing & then have proven they can pass that talent on to their offspring”. Certainly, Tamarack sires have proven talent & have sired talented babies but in eventing? The sires he seems to push most in his ads (Loyal Pal & Reputed Testimony) have proven themselves in other areas & I have yet to hear of their offspring having a lot of success in eventing.

However, I could certainly be wrong. I will take a look at the Tamarack website but would you please fill us all in, chapter & verse? Name the sire, name his achievements in eventing & the achievements of 2 or 3 of his offspring in eventing. Have any of the offspring reached the Olympics? Badminton? Burghley? Since we are (very seriously) interested in breeding horses that have the talent for 3 or 4 star I am not interested in knowing that an offspring has done training–that is not “success”.

www.rougelandfarm.com Home of TB stallion Alae Rouge, sire of our filly Rose, ribbon-winner on the line at Dressage at Devon.

I didn’t know there was a half brother out there. Summersong is the most incredible event horse I have EVER seen! Please please please post some pics of your foal.

I have a girlfriend who has a weanling filly out of Aberjack by a mare that has produced a four star horse. I think the jury is still out.

Does Dazzler have a website?

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NeverTime:
I don’t have a mare, so this is totally irrelevant, but having spent seven months with Denny as a working student, I would LOVE to own a replica of Rep. Of the stallions there, he was my favorite both in terms of looks and temperament–and from the one foal I saw live, plus pictures of several others, I know he really stamps his get with lots of chrome and those big beautiful eyes (not that eyes or chrome make an event horse, but still…)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree! I too was a working student, and Rep was my favorite! I liked Wintry, too. Pal was a sweetheart, and Blue was always in trouble. I never saw Aberjack in person, but if Mark Todd thinks so much of him, I’ll go along with that!

*I am as bad as the worst, but, thank God, I am as good as the best.

Evalee…I LOFF Connemaras so don’t forget Erin Go Bragh…he has evented successfully at advanced and has sired offspring that have made it to the upper levels as well…admitted by TB mares. I don’t know of any full Connemara foals that have made it to advanced so far, but if someone is interested in a crossbred, he’s a great pick. His stud fee is $1,000 and they ship semen. I’m curious about the comment someone said earlier about him siring “hot headed” babies. My mare and he share a family line (Erin Smithereen as she’s a granddaughter of Greystone McErrill) and she is quite hot headed. I’m curious to hear other’s opinions about the temperments of his babies keeping in mind the mare often passes her temperment too. Keeping her temperment in mind, I need to find a quiet calm tempered stallion for her.

Someone else thought about posting a picture of their mare to get suggestions on who to breed to. I just happen to have a recent conformation shot of my mare. I’d love opinions and suggestions. She’s small…only 14:3…but is a big mover and very light and uphill in how she rides. She has given me a large, correct filly as I mentioned earlier. Hopefully, if all goes well, I’ll start eventing her in the spring. She is by a Conn sire out of a TB mare bred from Tom Fool on top and Damascus on the bottom. Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

“I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself.” D.H. Lawrence

Bonnie.conf.2.jpg

Wow is all I can say about your CD baby!

he is mighty impressive. I didn’t know about him when I bred my mare, but I was one who was completely taken by Brandenburg’s Windstar. Even though he was young, and hadn’t done much competing (still hasn’t I don’t think) he’s got an impressive lot of Advanced 3-day relatives, and show jumpers. I was looking for temperament (and got it) and a bit of substance (got that too- her butt is HUGE).

WHen I considered breeding my other mare (a Morgan TB with funky conformation, but more heart and ability than any other horse I know) my top choice was Test Pilot, Kim & Marty Morani’s stallion. He’s from Advanced home bred bloodlines, (mostly TB) and is put together really well. he’s got his own solid competition record, and successful babies on the ground. (he’s chestnut, too, so no grays!) I didn’t breed Ali b/c I don’t need more horses and she’s getting too old to carry a foal safely.

I didn’t consider Denny’s horses b/c I didn’t want full TB.

It would be lovely if Denny’s stallions had gotten the start that JER described as part of Catherston’s “program”. However, with the exception of Aberjack and Wintry Oak, Denny’s stallions were racehorses, and began their careers at stud standing to that market. Their oldest foals are racehorses. It is hardly fair to judge their first few crops, bred to race out of racehorse mares, for not producing the eventing world’s latest phenom! Loyal Pal’s first foals are 9. His first crop with Denny is 5. Rep’s first foals are 7; his first Denny crop is also 5. Prussian Blue’s first foals are only 2 year olds.

then how about Fusiachi Pegasus crossed with a top eventing mare?

I’d love to see FuPeg jump!

Anne - I understood the point you were making completely, I just disagreed with you!
I don’t want to get into an arguement, nor do I want to be ‘dissing’ anyone’s stallion. But speaking generally, if I stallion stood for 3 or 4 years as a race horse stallion, even if he only got 10 foals a year, that would be a minimum of 30 -40 foals now aged 10, 9,8,7 - all of an age to be out and doing something. If they made it to the track, and if they came off sound (or even relatively sound) - and if the stallion was not a successful racing stallion , those offspring would not, generally speaking have gone to the breeding shed.
Given the subsequent very high profile one would think instead that these offspring would have been sought out, bought up and in the show ring… and they may very well be, I think that was just what people were asking… Just my opinion of course.

It is funny how, when one is sensitive to a topic, he/she can pick up inuendo that was not intended. As someone who currently owns two OTTB, rides a third OTTB for a woman who just bred to Aberjack and is best show buddies with another woman who bred two Fuerst Goddard babies out of a TB/draft cross and owns a Trak mare, I’ve attended an Oldenberg Inspection, etc.

I prefer OTTB, but love all the others and read NOTHING in this thread that seemed to slam Denny and May or American bred horses, because I am not sensitive to it and wasn’t looking for it. Just opinions and an interesting discussion with pictures of some beautiful foals and stallions. Time for some decaf!

Reminder… no advertising.

Rebecca, unless that mare is being offered free to a good home, it’s advertising and should be taken down.

Thanks, but as I said… I don’t know a whole lot about breeding and what needs to be looked for in a stallion to compliment my mare.


If Dressage is a Symphony… Eventing is Rock & Roll!!!

“All’s well that ends with cute E.R. doctors, I always say.” – Buffy

Could that baby BE any cuter. Her neck comes out of her shoulder like a GP dressage superstar!

Thanks for that link. He is a lovely boy! What exactly is the non TB part of him? Just curious…it doesn’t matter that much to me. He is a lovely brown too like my mare so gray would not be a possibility with that cross.

My mare is small (14:3) and compact too so that is one reason to select a bigger stallion as well. She had a foal this spring (an accidental breeding to an unknown stallion probably at a sale) and the filly is almost 13:3 at 7 1/2 months and we expect her to mature to 15:3-16:0 hands by the string tests so I know she can produce a large foal. I do really like Go Bragh though. Maybe I can breed for one baby to him and another to a larger stallion? Just a thought.

“I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself.” D.H. Lawrence

for feeling that you can’t find that steeplechase stallion (“National hunt”) near you at a low stud fee–Poles Apart stands in New Mexico, I believe. He is one of the leading Steeplechase sires & his stud fee is only $2,500 even though he is the sire of Tres Touche who is winning all over in Steeplechasing, although I think the best Tres Touche did in England was 3rd. Steeplechase sires do generally have fairly low stud fees even if they have sired stakes winners because Steeplechase is not too popular in this country.

We have a daughter of Poles Apart (Broken Seal) & I think she is about as sound as you could ask for–raced 77 times (all over a mile) & won 10 as well as being second or third about 25 more times. We bought her as a broodmare because, although she raced on the flat, I liked her soundness & heart & her jumping breeding. We have 2 lovely, correct colts out of her, both demonstrating her level-headed, common sense approach to life.

Seal has not been proven on the event course & her foals are a weanling & a yearling, but I think she has a lot of potential. She is open this year so my daughter plans to hunt her this winter & see if she is brave xc.

www.rougelandfarm.com Home of TB stallion Alae Rouge, sire of our filly Rose, ribbon-winner on the line at Dressage at Devon.

what did I miss? where did JER “knock” Aberjack other than saying that he’s not the best for her own mares? (which i don’t think is a “knock”)

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Robby Johnson:
I’ve only sat on 2 stallions in my entire life; one was a retired racehorse when I was a teenager in Alabama, the other was A Fine Romance this summer in Toronto. There is something markedly different about sitting on a stallion. Particularly if they like you! You get the feeling that they would take you anywhere, and that they are really working hard to “co-habitate” with you!

Robby

_ You may be only one person in the world, but you may also be the world to one person. _ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

haha what do you mean ONLY two stallions!? That’s A LOT! I’ve only sat on two too! Yeah, there’s definitely something different about sitting on them

In response to some people’s posts…to each their own I believe. I don’t know if each stallion mentioned is better than any tamarack stallion…that is a bit of a crass remark, but if you feel that way then that’s ok. I would like to see a picture of Aberjack’s son if you wouldn’t mind posting it!! Also, like I said before please don’t get defensive but let’s try to express our opinions in a tactful way…

Does anyone on this board have an Aberjack baby by any chance? Since breeding season is over I have been fortunate enough to ride him, and he is truly the most incredible horse I’ve ever sat on. I was talking with Denny and he suggested asking if anyone who posts here has an Aberjack baby and would be willing to post some pictures. Let me know if you know of any of his babies out there. Thanks a lot!

Carrie