Mb civil suit rulings 11/15/2022

[ekat]

@Rel6

Again, if the civil court decides not to carry over any of the findings it won’t matter anyway and LK has to prove everything. If the civil court decides some of the issues were already decided in the criminal case and those decisions are binding (like whether MB shot LK), the court has to find a way to determine whether a final decision was made and apply it in the case. Not sure how that is going to happen either.

Doesn’t someone (ie: the plaintiff) have to raise the issue?

Also, there’s a lot of case law in NJ on issue preclusion when there is a conviction or a plea to a crime that involves intent.

But here we have the exact opposite - a verdict that says there was no intent. So, how do you split out the verdict?

Also, if the plaintiff were to raise the issue, how does that change when SGF (and RC) weren’t parties to the original criminal trial and has no opportunity to raise any defense in that trial?

SGF has stated repeatedly that they are disputing all the facts of the case. They haven’t had a chance to do so yet, so it seems like that might be important.

[Rel6]

Yes! Totally - one party would have to raise the issue and to be honest I’m not sure which side benefits more. With the lower burden of proof on LK they may not feel like there is not much risk in having to re-present proof where as MB’s team might worry about having to reprove mental state? But also, evidence rules are more lax and with the counter claims MB will be able to introduce more that is potentially damaging to LK.

And I have no idea how the verdict would shake out. Its complicated by the fact that it assumes the act was committed but there isn’t really anything to show the jury arrived at that conclusion except a sealed verdict form and the verdict itself, and the verdict/insanity defense doesn’t translate to the civil context. So I genuinely have no clue how it plays out and am interested to see.

[BigMama1]

@CurrentlyHorseless

I agree MB was not found Guilty of attempted murder of LK.

Logically then you must also agree that the judge is incorrect for stating that MB was found guilty of attempted murder, but not criminally liable. Glad we finally cleared that up.

[BigMama1]

@Maria

I have this vision of some of you gathering up bandaging material, wrapping your head wounds from wacking your head against the closes wall. The bricks are chipping and the chinking is falling out, but I give you all so much credit and have so much respect for your gallant efforts to educate.

Consider our attempts to educate a form of community service. Plus, it’s amusing to see people proving themselves wrong with their own comments

[MHM]

@ekat

But here we have the exact opposite - a verdict that says there was no intent. So, how do you split out the verdict?

I realize that it probably won’t help anybody with the civil case, but I still have a feeling that they arrived at that verdict as a compromise between jurors who had different opinions on the case. Obviously, there is no way to prove that theory.

[Sdel]

@MHM

@ekat

But here we have the exact opposite - a verdict that says there was no intent. So, how do you split out the verdict?

I realize that it probably won’t help anybody with the civil case, but I still have a feeling that they arrived at that verdict as a compromise between jurors who had different opinions on the case. Obviously, there is no way to prove that theory.

Juries certainly don’t have to follow the “rules” if they don’t want to. It’s just as likely they felt he needed mental health help and wanted to make sure that happened. So, there you go RI.

[Knights_Mom]

@MHM

@ekat

But here we have the exact opposite - a verdict that says there was no intent. So, how do you split out the verdict?

I realize that it probably won’t help anybody with the civil case, but I still have a feeling that they arrived at that verdict as a compromise between jurors who had different opinions on the case. Obviously, there is no way to prove that theory.

It is a perfectly logical scenario you present given one act was straight NG and the other NGRI. If one were to believe the story as presented by LKs version there should be NO not guilty’s.

[FitzE]

@CanteringCarrot

the arrogance is astonishing at times.

I think it’s the arrogance combined with the ignorance that is truly

[3PonyFarm]

I think the verdict shows the belief the jury had in Mr. B since he asked for the NGRI.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@BigMama1

@CurrentlyHorseless

I agree MB was not found Guilty of attempted murder of LK.

Logically then you must also agree that the judge is incorrect for stating that MB was found guilty of attempted murder, but not criminally liable. Glad we finally cleared that up.

No, BigMama, I do not agree that the judge is incorrect for stating that MB “was found guilty of attempted murder, but not criminally liable.”

That’s your position. I understand your position but disagree with it.

[iberianfan]

Does anyone want to explain the difference between a ruling and dicta?

lectlaw.com/def/d047.htm

For some reason I can’t copy/paste.

[ekat]

@iberianfan

Does anyone want to explain the difference between a ruling and dicta?

Dicta:

The part of a judicial opinion which is merely a judge’s editorializing and does not directly address the specifics of the case at bar; extraneous material which is merely informative or explanatory.

Ruling:

a court’s decision on a matter presented in a lawsuit

[Unfforgettable]

@Angela_Freda

I personally think someone should be working with MB (eventually) on a book about what has happened to him and how he managed to find the strength to fight this.

That would be awesome, and maybe even a movie.

Right up until LK sues the author.

[Knights_Mom]

@ekat

@iberianfan

Does anyone want to explain the difference between a ruling and dicta?

Dicta:

The part of a judicial opinion which is merely a judge’s editorializing and does not directly address the specifics of the case at bar; extraneous material which is merely informative or explanatory.

Ruling:

a court’s decision on a matter presented in a lawsuit

For me it’s the error in premise that irritates.

[ekat]

@Unfforgettable

That would be awesome, and maybe even a movie.

Right up until LK sues the author.

I’d be happy with a book of his artwork.

The added bonus is it would be harder for her to sue him over.

[trubandloki]

Oh, I love the idea of a book of Michael’s artwork!

[3PonyFarm]

When the judge says a person has 10 days, is that business days or regular days?

[ekat]

@3PonyFarm

When the judge says a person has 10 days, is that business days or regular days?

https://www.njcourts.gov/attorneys/rules-of-court/computation-time

[eggbutt]

@Sdel

It’s just as likely they felt he needed mental health help and wanted to make sure that happened. So, there you go RI.

Exactly - at State expense. Little did the jury know how long even the initial process would take, how the recommendations were ignored, how long the next transfer would take, and the quality of treatment he may or may not be receiving. I can’t believe the people of NJ are aware of how wasted their tax payer dollars are being spent on facilities with no policies or procedures, or if they exist they aren’t followed.

[3PonyFarm]

Thanks! I wondered about that.