MB update

[ekat]

@LilRanger

I have no doubt the professional insurance was like, Nope! He was acting as a laaandlord! Tra-la-la!

It’s property insurance all the way, and I have zero doubt they have weaseled out too. They know how to mitigate risk, yeah?

Considering the suit was filed in 10/2019 and the criminal verdict didn’t happen till 04/22, you can bet no insurance was paying out a dime towards the work Mr D did prior to the stay.

[ekat]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

And in this case, doesn’t the NGRI verdict established by the criminal trial, and the case the defense presented that laid out how LK behaved in such a way that she contributed to his mental disorder… well… isn’t that going to factor into any possible civil suit payout? She contributed SUBSTANTIALLY to the whole set of events that led up to the shooting

And that is why I don’t think there’s going to be any settlement offers coming from MB or SGF. Or RC for that matter, either.

[hut-ho78]

@Knights_Mom

@hut-ho78

@Sdel

@CurrentlyHorseless

Yes, and if the jury had been convinced by the prosecution’s psych experts that he shot LK while NOT in a delusional state, he’d be in prison instead of a psychiatrist institution right now.

Yes, he was found to be in a state of delusion….one that was brought on by extreme fear. The state psych witness confirmed for the jury it was right for them to accept Simring’s conclusions that the delusions were brought on by LK’s actions.

Just because a jury is charged to find things a certain way doesn’t mean they always do. That is the basis for jury nullification. One way is for a jury to completely disregard jury instructions on how to find a verdict and do their own thing. For all you know, they thought he was straight up NG on all charges but felt obligated to ensure he got mental health treatment for the damage LK did to him and that is why they came up with NGRI.

The state psych witness said that MB was sane and not delusional when he shot LK.

The jury disagreed. That opinion counted more than yours does now.

The jury found NGRI because they believed the the defense mental health experts, Dr Simring and Dr Hassan, and not the prosecutor’s expert Dr Schlessinger. To find NGRI, they believed beyond a reasonable doubt that MB shot LK twice and believed a preponderance of the evidence showed he was insane by being delusional. Dr Schlessinger was saying he was sane, faking his disoriented appearance, and faking amnesia. Had the jury gone with Dr Schlessinger, MB would be found guilty and would be in prison instead of AK.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@ekat

Yep. And SGF has shown zero indication they or their insurance is going to pay a dime, especially because of the indemnification clause they had with MB, which I’ve mentioned here before.

Ah yes. The indemnification clause.

And of course, discovery is ongoing.

It seems assuming anything about settlements just yet is a bit premature.

[SierraMist]

@ekat

@SierraMist

They quote a set fee for a criminal case, what it costs to go to trial. No matter what the verdict turns out to be. And of course, any continuing fees for the subsequent hearings would be charged separately. The defendant has to keep depositing into a retainer fund

That was my very poorly worded point. They can’t factor in what they don’t know. Meanwhile, he’s got a hearing coming up that wouldn’t have originally been included in any fees. Maybe it’s the last. Maybe there’s another in 90 days. But the bills keep coming.

One other note. The civil suit was filed back in 2019. Plenty of work was originally done before the stay. That would be prior to the verdict, when someone had to pay Mr D to get started, even if the insurance company was waiting for the verdict to decide if he was covered or not. So, more bills.

I agree. IF MB even carried a liability policy. I’m beginning to think he didn’t as there hasn’t been any word of insurance defense at this point.

Even in civil cases (if not a contingency case) attorneys request retainers, and when the retainer is used up, they request the retainer be funded again. Otherwise, a lot of attorneys would never get paid. That’s why I wonder if he has insurance, then why not turn it over to them? End of fee drain.

[ekat]

@SierraMist

Even in civil cases (if not a contingency case) attorneys request retainers, and when the retainer is used up, they request the retainer be funded again. Otherwise, a lot of attorneys would never get paid. That’s why I wonder if he has insurance, then why not turn it over to them? End of fee drain.

But what if back in 10/2019, his insurance said, screw you and your criminal act? Like you said earlier, he’d have to file a bad faith claim, right? But that needed the verdict. And someone had to pay somebody to answer the suit and the subsequent filings up until the stay.

And honestly, who in the name of MB would be telling anyone anything about his insurance policies so they could end up on CoTH? Where would that even come up?

[Sdel]

@hut-ho78

To find NGRI, they believed beyond a reasonable doubt that MB shot LK twice and believed a preponderance of the evidence showed he was insane by being delusional

You do not know that. Jury nullification, look it up. It’s a real thing. Maybe they just thought he needed real psych help in recovering from the torture he was put through that he hadn’t been getting in jail before he was released to fend for himself and wanted to make sure he got it. Good an explanation as any why they wanted to relisten to Simring.

[Sdel]

@SierraMist

Even in civil cases (if not a contingency case) attorneys request retainers, and when the retainer is used up, they request the retainer be funded again. Otherwise, a lot of attorneys would never get paid. That’s why I wonder if he has insurance, then why not turn it over to them? End of fee drain.

Quite frankly, that would be stupid. Once MB did that, he would lose say in his fate, someone else would be the trump card on how the case played out. It has nothing to do with if he has insurance or not. Talk about giving bad advice.

[SierraMist]

@ekat

@SierraMist

Even in civil cases (if not a contingency case) attorneys request retainers, and when the retainer is used up, they request the retainer be funded again. Otherwise, a lot of attorneys would never get paid. That’s why I wonder if he has insurance, then why not turn it over to them? End of fee drain.

But what if back in 10/2019, his insurance said, screw you and your criminal act? Like you said earlier, he’d have to file a bad faith claim, right? But that needed the verdict. And someone had to pay somebody to answer the suit and the subsequent filings up until the stay.

And honestly, who in the name of MB would be telling anyone anything about his insurance policies so they could end up on CoTH? Where would that even come up?

I agree, they had to file answers, etc in the civil case before the stay. But it’s been some time now since the NGRI verdict. It would show up if the insurance company attorneys entered an appearance in the civil case.

[hut-ho78]

@ekat

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

Soooo… at the August Krol hearing, if the evaluating psychiatric professionals from AK report that they do not see evidence of an ongoing delusional disorder, is the state really going to try and now argue, “Your honor, we have changed our mind from last April. We thought he was sane then, and had an expert testify to that point… but NOW we think he has a persistent delusional disorder, and needs to remain confined.”

I have often, since the verdict, found myself contemplating that same conundrum. Not only do we now say he’s insane, despite assuring the jury he wasn’t in April, we think he poses a significant risk of danger to either himself or the public for the immediate future. And yes, commitment is not punitive. But lock him up anyway, thank you very much.

It doesn’t make sense.

Now that the jury has delivered the NGRI verdict, isn’t it the psychiatrist(s) affiliated with AK who make a recommendation to the judge and then continue to do so? MB could hire an outside psychiatrist to plead on his behalf if the the AK ones do not give the answer he wants but isn’t it out of the prosecutor’s hands now that it is a civil matter? It’s still the judge who has to determine the risk but I thought it was strictly a civil action based on safety now and has moved past the DA’s office?

[eggbutt]

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@hut-ho78

Now that the jury has delivered the NGRI verdict, isn’t it the psychiatrist(s) affiliated with AK who make a recommendation to the judge and then continue to do so? MB could hire an outside psychiatrist to plead on his behalf if the the AK ones do not give the answer he wants but isn’t it out of the prosecutor’s hands now that it is a civil matter? It’s still the judge who has to determine the risk but I thought it was strictly a civil action based on safety now and has moved past the DA’s office?

The psych professionals from AK do the evaluation and put together a report making recommendations, but when it goes in front of the judge, both MB and the state of NJ are represented by counsel at the Krol hearing meaning Bilinkas and Schellhorn’s office are still involved.

At least, this is my understanding of how it will work.

[ekat]

@SierraMist

I agree, they had to file answers, etc in the civil case before the stay. But it’s been some time now since the NGRI verdict. It would show up if the insurance company attorneys entered an appearance in the civil case.

A) the stay was lifted the end of April. Perhaps, when MB was trying to get transferred out of jail, and thought he had a hearing coming up on May 17th, it wasn’t his first priority.

You know who LK has not sued? Michael Barisone Dressage, LLC, which would be the insured party of his professional insurance policy. So, that insurance policy and their attorneys has no standing or requirement to defend Michael Barisone, the individual until such time as they are named a party to the suit, if they ever are.

[SierraMist]

@Sdel

@SierraMist

Even in civil cases (if not a contingency case) attorneys request retainers, and when the retainer is used up, they request the retainer be funded again. Otherwise, a lot of attorneys would never get paid. That’s why I wonder if he has insurance, then why not turn it over to them? End of fee drain.

Quite frankly, that would be stupid. Once MB did that, he would lose say in his fate, someone else would be the trump card on how the case played out. It has nothing to do with if he has insurance or not. Talk about giving bad advice.

Sometimes it’s wiser to cut one’s losses. Lawsuits based on principle are a money drain. I’d let the insurance company (if any) handle it and move on with my life. But that’s me.

[ekat]

@hut-ho78

Now that the jury has delivered the NGRI verdict, isn’t it the psychiatrist(s) affiliated with AK who make a recommendation to the judge and then continue to do so? MB could hire an outside psychiatrist to plead on his behalf if the the AK ones do not give the answer he wants but isn’t it out of the prosecutor’s hands now that it is a civil matter? It’s still the judge who has to determine the risk but I thought it was strictly a civil action based on safety now and has moved past the DA’s office?

The evaluation, and the psychiatrist is at the request of the State who has the duty to present whatever they are going to present at this and every subsequent hearing until he is fully released, per the Krol directives, even though it is a civil matter.

[Scribbler]

@FitzE

@Scribbler

Well, yes. It’s common practice that no person or entity potentially facing a civil suit ever apologizes in a way that accepts responsibility and liability for the event because that could really make them lose the suit.

So true. Which makes any suggestion that he do so smack of either a complete failure to grasp the legal issues being discussed here, or an attempt to manipulate a party into doing something against their own interests.

Either way, badly done, and absolutely no value added to the discussion.

I think it just smacks of being a troll. I’m not sure whether this originated with LK on another forum or on COTH with one of the posters I’ve blocked. It’s just stirring the pot. I mean no defendent ever when acquitted of a crime then apologizes for that crime. It’s just silly.

It’s interesting when you observe a given COTH member behaving in consistent ways different threads (that is counter factual, provocative, and picking long winded fights over semantics) even when that requires a 180 degree pivot in ideology or emotional investment. From being pro victim to anti victim, for instance. It makes me have very little interest in what they say.

[Sdel]

@SierraMist

Sometimes it’s wiser to cut one’s losses. Lawsuits based on principal are a money drain. I’d let the insurance company (if any) handle it and move on with my life. But that’s me.

Just to make sure everyone is clear: Sierra Mist is claiming MB should leave his fate in the civil case to be determined by a third party agency that has none of his interests at heart. And he should be cool with it if they leave him high and dry and cause him to lose everything to protect their interests.

[eggbutt]

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@ekat

You know who LK has not sued? Michael Barisone Dressage, LLC, which would be the insured party of his professional insurance policy. So, that insurance policy and their attorneys has no standing or requirement to defend Michael Barisone, the individual until such time as they are named a party to the suit, if they ever are.

You are all over this. I was just wondering about MB Dressage LLC… because technically, that is the party that leased Sweet Grass Farms LLC for the purposes of running MB’s business at the farm.

I wonder what the legal strategy was for LK to just go immediately after SGF LLC with a lawsuit back in 2019, bypassing MB Dressage LLC?

[Sdel]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

I wonder what the Va legal strategy was for LK to just go immediately after SGF LLC with a lawsuit back in 2019, bypassing MB Dressage LLC?

She claims MB didn’t own the farm?