i have no idea what i have done wrong, but it is clearly something. she used to canter up to the fence to see me, now she stands still or runs away. she used to come and search my pockets, follow me around and want to spend as much time with humans as possible. now she would much rather stay with her friend and couldn’t care less about spending time with me. there aren’t many big problems, more just the fact that our bond has broken and i can’t get it back. i tried join up in her field today, ideally i would have used a round pen but i have no access to any land except her fields, but she didn’t understand i was sending her away. when she’d run over her field for a while, stopping and starting because i couldn’t keep up, she gave me the signs that she was ready but when i turned away she just stood and stared at me. it went on like this for about half an hour and she was getting more and more wound up and she bucked when i asked her to go away until one time when she bucked and twisted in mid air and caught my arm with her hoof. she’s never done anything like this before and she didn’t mean to kick me but every time i try to build our bond again she gets more and more worked up. how can i work with her in a way that gets her to trust me while giving her exercise?
She probably just associates you with work. Try catching her and giving her a treat and making a big fuss over her, then just letting her go. Stop trying to train her in the field, you’re lucky you didn’t get hurt.
I think you should stop chasing your horse around the field. She is running away from you because you’ve been “sending her away.” You’ve taught her not to be caught very well and she listened. Now you need to fix it. When you go up to your pony, catch her, praise her and go brush her. Then let her go.
This has nothing to do with clicking and not clicking, stop anthromorphizing her.
For every five times you catch and pet her, ride her once. She will get over being hard to catch pretty fast.
One of the most useful “tricks” I’ve taught my horse is to answer with a nicker when I call his name. It started off as a random thing I decided to do one day when the weather was too bad to ride. It has since turned into a very handy thing if he’s turned out when I get to the barn to ride. All I have to do is yell his name and he will come running. The first thing I do is give him a pat and a treat. I never have problems catching him.
OP, do you ride or drive your pony? or are the sending away/joining up exercises in her field her exercise?
i usually ride my pony, i only tried join up because i had great success with it with my first part loan pony. she was scared of everyone and everything but once she’d joined up with me she trusted me and came to me for safety. i thought it might work with my current pony because of the things i have done in the past and because of her relationships with people in the past. today the wind was to bad for a ride, but it kept coming and going so i worked with her in the good weather, i just didn’t want to chance getting stuck on the road with her if the wind came back because she is young and doesn’t do well in bad weather. tomorrow i will be back to riding again, however i am very interested in natural horsemanship and would like to learn more about it in the future…
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8473342]
I think you should stop chasing your horse around the field. She is running away from you because you’ve been “sending her away.” You’ve taught her not to be caught very well and she listened. Now you need to fix it. .[/QUOTE]
she stopped being caught way before i tried join up, it was just something someone suggested i try with her as it worked wonders on my old part loan pony.
Is she boarded or do you keep her at home? If she was overly friendly when someone else was attempting to take their horse from the pasture it could be that other boarders are after her to get back and now it is a learned habit?
I have always rewarded my horses being caught with a handful of grain. As a result when they see me they come running to me 90% of the time, 5% i need to call, 5% I go get them, but they are happy to be haltered.
Are you riding her too hard for her level of fitness and training? Does your saddle and tack fit well? If she associates you catching her with having pain , then it will be an uphill battle. I don’t know what " join up" is supposed to be but it isn’t working for her.
[QUOTE=coco beans;8473329]
i have no idea what i have done wrong, but it is clearly something. she used to canter up to the fence to see me, now she stands still or runs away. she used to come and search my pockets, follow me around and want to spend as much time with humans as possible. now she would much rather stay with her friend and couldn’t care less about spending time with me. there aren’t many big problems, more just the fact that our bond has broken and i can’t get it back. i tried join up in her field today, ideally i would have used a round pen but i have no access to any land except her fields, but she didn’t understand i was sending her away. when she’d run over her field for a while, stopping and starting because i couldn’t keep up, she gave me the signs that she was ready but when i turned away she just stood and stared at me. it went on like this for about half an hour and she was getting more and more wound up and she bucked when i asked her to go away until one time when she bucked and twisted in mid air and caught my arm with her hoof. she’s never done anything like this before and she didn’t mean to kick me but every time i try to build our bond again she gets more and more worked up. how can i work with her in a way that gets her to trust me while giving her exercise?[/QUOTE]
I would be careful with that “send away” business. IME it’s confusing for a horse. She may already be associating this send away you’re doing with now she knows you expect her to run away when you approach. Not exactly what you want to teach her, probably. Just be calm when you catch her. Walk up, maybe offer a treat, and halter her. Once she’s calm about that, you can work on getting her to come up to you in the field, willingly. Chasing her off probably won’t get you there. I taught mine to come to a kiss noise. He’ll come galloping up now and I always reward him with a treat. And as others have suggested, don’t only catch her when you’re planning to work her.
May I suggest you start using proper capitalization in your post and just capitalizing the first letter of words of your post’s topic? All capitals makes it hard to read. No capitals on the start of new sentences ALSO makes it hard to read. Small letter i talking about yourself, makes it even harder to read, as well as being improper spelling. Punctuation is nice to see!
If you want to be take seriously here, you need to write and spell like an adult, not doing text message style or just not bothering with Capitals. I know I tend to skip over messages with the items mentioned because usually they are written by someone who is unwilling to make an effort to be easily readable. Past experiences have taught me those posters seldom hear what one has to say anyway. So not wasting my time with advice that will not be taken, makes me happier.
Just saying that your post fits a poor stereotype when seen on Chronicle Forums, so perhaps changing your writing style will get you better help when you ask for it.
Pony is acting badly because you are mixing your signals. She is also getting angry (kicking) because you WON’T quit bothering her after saying “I don’t want to be with you” in turning away. Of course she will like the other animal better, they don’t treat her mean like that!
I would be walking out into the field with a treat, put the halter on, lead her back to the barn and groom her, let her go again. You want to make it so NICE things happen when she lets you approach and touch her. If you don’t have much time, just catch and halter her with the treat, then release her at the front gate, so you can be on your way. As mentioned, bringing her in a few times, then riding is a good idea, keeps her guessing what happens at the barn. You want EVERY time you come around her, to be a good time.
When she is good about letting you approach and halter her, try calling her from a few steps away to come over. If she does THEN give the treat and halter her. If she doesn’t, then finish walking to her to halter and give treat. Just keep trying to have her come to you for the haltering and treat after. You work on this over time, so eventually (a month or two) she comes to you at the gate for haltering and treat. Sometimes you ride then, other times not, but she always gets that treat when she comes.
Getting her back coming is going to take time. She no longer trusts you, since you put out confusing body language. BE CAREFUL around her, since she kicked once while loose, she might kick again. Don’t walk behind her, approach her head to halter and treat her. Watch for her to spin as you come up to her, don’t get caught by surprise. With the odd body signals you gave out, she also might be trying to figure if you are higher or lower in herd status. She might be trying to move up herself, so if she can “move you” that means she is boss mare, not you. That thinking by her can get you hurt. Watch her, read HER body signals to stay safe, like ear-pinning, tail swishing, lifting a hind leg or putting her rump towards you. Those are THREATS, she may follow up with kicking or biting, to keep her place as boss mare.
No more join-up stuff. If you don’t have the right set-up with a pen, the method won’t work. You just train her to do BAD stuff instead.
[QUOTE=coco beans;8473329]
i have no idea what i have done wrong, but it is clearly something. she used to canter up to the fence to see me, now she stands still or runs away. she used to come and search my pockets, follow me around and want to spend as much time with humans as possible. now she would much rather stay with her friend and couldn’t care less about spending time with me. there aren’t many big problems, more just the fact that our bond has broken and i can’t get it back. i tried join up in her field today, ideally i would have used a round pen but i have no access to any land except her fields, but she didn’t understand i was sending her away. when she’d run over her field for a while, stopping and starting because i couldn’t keep up, she gave me the signs that she was ready but when i turned away she just stood and stared at me. it went on like this for about half an hour and she was getting more and more wound up and she bucked when i asked her to go away until one time when she bucked and twisted in mid air and caught my arm with her hoof. she’s never done anything like this before and she didn’t mean to kick me but every time i try to build our bond again she gets more and more worked up. how can i work with her in a way that gets her to trust me while giving her exercise?[/QUOTE]
I’m sorry, but I was confused reading this post, so I am sure your horse is quite confused as well.
No matter what ‘style’ of training you do with her, you need to be clear and consistent. I would suggest working with a knowledgeable professional to help you. How long have you had this horse anyway? Sometimes they start testing you after you’ve had them a bit, so that’s not too uncommon.
Your horse is confused. What you took as partnership was just bribery, you used to come up with treats maybe you haven’t been doing that. Even still that is no bond I can tell by what behavior you described this horse has no respect for you and rightfully so! This horse has no idea what is going on, from what you posted this horse is some pasture pet and you have no ring or area that “work” in. The horse has no idea what area is meant for “work” and what area is meant from “play”. You need clarify what you do with this horse so people can better help you. And you need to designate a area where the horse “works” e.g. a round pen of some sort. Even if that is just some corral panels. Also get rid of the all caps, use spell check, and if your not 12 please be coherent.
My advice, summarized: put this pony back in a facility with stalls or at least a small pen, where pony can be fed, trapped, and worked with. Daytime turnout, nighttime stalls, would be ideal. Chasing pony around the field will get you nowhere.
My experience with this:
I had a horse as a teenager. She was supposedly born feral (won’t romanticize her by calling her a mustang), but by the time I got her had been well broke (not well trained, but very tame) on a local trail ride string. She ended up being a good match for me. She was a fairly submissive horse in terms of herd hierarchies, and had a bit of a spook in her.
During my teen years I kept her in a stall in the suburbs. She was dependent on me for every bite of food, for every step outside that she took. She would start to whinny and paw at her door as soon as I appeared at the top of the driveway. She loved going out on rides, we would spend 5 or 6 hours trail riding on weekends, we were bonded, no question about it.
In my early twenties, while I was in college, I put her out on a big pasture an hour’s drive into the countryside, as I didn’t have time to ride every day. She went out on a 40 acre field that had good grazing years round, under the eye of an old cowboy, the good kind of old cowboy, the sort that can get away with doing minimal care but knows what matters and whose horses never get into trouble.
I would try to get out to see her on weekends. But within a year, she had figured out that I couldn’t catch her, and if she didn’t want to be caught, she didn’t have to be caught. She could stay three steps ahead of me, trot if I ran, canter if I ran fast.
If by chance I caught her, snuck up with grain, she was instantly submissive as soon as I had hold of her forelock or mane, and would lead. But she learned to duck that, and would even refuse grain from me.
The old cowboy could catch her just fine when I wasn’t there, and thought I was a bit of a fool.
My sister’s horse was a big, confident, dominant gelding, very friendly. He would come running across the field when he saw her. But the tradeoff was, once my sister got on him, he didn’t want to leave the property. Once, he jumped back into the field over a huge drainage ditch. By contrast, if you did catch my horse, she was a doll under saddle, no fight at all.
I thought at the time the difference was, once you laid hands on my own horse, she knew she was instantly submissive, couldn’t resist at all, so she just avoided you. Whereas my sister’s horse knew he wasn’t going to go to work if he didn’t want to, so being caught didn’t matter.
At the time I knew the only way to change the situation would be to move to a facility with stalls, maybe overnight stalls and daytime turnout. We did do that a couple of winters, and in those facilities I could ride her. But later I left her on pasture all year round, and never got close to her for years. I was travelling, out of the country, she was under good care (by a second old cowboy who liked her and also could catch her, and thought I was a fool), it wasn’t an issue. she was too old to ride by that point, and she had a good long retirement life.
Really, I could see no reason for why she would want to be caught. It made sense to me!
My current horse is a dominant, friendly, mare. Of course my big worry going into horses again was, what if I can’t catch my horse?
I probably didn’t need to worry with this horse, but from the start I’ve done things like taught her to come when I whistle (with a treat), to lead with no halter, etc. We have stalls with run-out paddocks, and a big attended turnout ring. I have had her on pasture for a few months at a time in the summer, and she has been easy to catch, but then I haven’t ridden her when she is at pasture.
Two summers back, I took her to a different facility for the three months. She lived outdoors 24/7 in a field that was trampled pretty much dry, so she was still getting fed hay. The barn staff fed the hay, but I turned up every day to ride and feed mash. Every day when I caught her, I stopped to let her graze for 20 minutes in a grassy corner outside the pasture.
When I drove up, as soon as she saw me in the parking lot, she would be trotting the fence line screaming for me (unless, of course, I turned up when she was eating a meal of hay). Interestingly, she was much louder than she is at home in her stall. She whinnies for me when I turn up at home, but in the big dry field, she seemed quite anxious, as if she worried that I’d forgotten her. She had horse friends in the field, and she was the only horse that was that loud about their person.
I have to conclude that she enjoyed the sum total of what we did together. And, interestingly, like my sister’s old horse, this mare can put up a bit of a fight under saddle, so I figure partly she doesn’t mind being caught because she knows she won’t do anything she doesn’t want to!
So what are my conclusions here?
If your horse is in a pasture situation and has figured out how to keep one step ahead of you, then you may need to move the horse to a facility with some kind of containment, either a barn with stalls, or even a small pen with a gate. The horse can learn to go inside for its feed, hay if you feed that, or grain if you are not feeding extra hay. Then you lock the horse in, and proceed from there.
If you have a horse that easily reverts to not being caught on pasture, you may never be able to do pasture board if you want to ride the horse. Do you know anything about the history of your pony? It is possible that this has happened every time has gone on pasture board.
I don’t think that chasing a horse around pasture works at all.
Also, “join up,” as I understand it, is not something that you do with a broke horse, and it is not something that you do day after day with a broke horse, certainly. To the extent that it works, it is a technique used by people who want to tame feral horses quickly. They get into a fairly small space (typically a round pen), and use body language to move the horse around, then take off that pressure when they sense that the horse is curious enough want to approach them. It is a way to negotiate the first sustained encounter between a human and a wild horse. They do it once, and then move on to other things.
I have not seen it in use, and I don’t know if it works for everyone, or if you need the sense of calm, timing, and patience that very experienced horsemen have. It is absolutely not going to work in a big field, because there the horse will remove the pressure by just getting far enough away from the human, and staying there.
“Joining up,” therefore, is different in intent and technique from the various things you can do in ground work, such as sending the horse out and pulling it back with body cues, having the horse halt, wait while you walk away, then come when you whistle, etc. These all occur after the horse is tame, broke, accustomed to humans, and is happy to play with you.
[QUOTE=coco beans;8473329]
i have no idea what i have done wrong, but it is clearly something. she used to canter up to the fence to see me, now she stands still or runs away. she used to come and search my pockets, follow me around and want to spend as much time with humans as possible. now she would much rather stay with her friend and couldn’t care less about spending time with me. there aren’t many big problems, more just the fact that our bond has broken and i can’t get it back. i tried join up in her field today, ideally i would have used a round pen but i have no access to any land except her fields, but she didn’t understand i was sending her away. when she’d run over her field for a while, stopping and starting because i couldn’t keep up, she gave me the signs that she was ready but when i turned away she just stood and stared at me. it went on like this for about half an hour and she was getting more and more wound up and she bucked when i asked her to go away until one time when she bucked and twisted in mid air and caught my arm with her hoof. she’s never done anything like this before and she didn’t mean to kick me but every time i try to build our bond again she gets more and more worked up. how can i work with her in a way that gets her to trust me while giving her exercise?[/QUOTE]
How old are you? This sounds like a 10 year old not having a clue as to what your doing. Get a trainer or someone with more experience before you get seriously hurt.
Learn how to use paragraphs instead of one big giant paragraph hard to read and understand. Sorry post sounds very childish to me.
Can you think of a reason why she should prefer your company to that of her buddy ?
[QUOTE=candyappy;8473568]
Is she boarded or do you keep her at home? [/QUOTE]
she’s at home. she’s always been at her owners home’s and has never been stabled for more than the occasional couple of hours and has always hated it. i don’t have a stable anyway and my parents would not let me move her as there is no where nearby.
the saddle she came with was a bad fit and had been causing her discomfort however as soon as we realised this we contacted a saddler and have had one professionally fitted.
So you have this pony at your horse with no experienced horse person eg a trainer to help correct? Also is this a western pony or english that would clear some things up IMO. My best advice for you would be start taking lessons at a local barn and get some knowledge. See if maybe a trainer can come to your place but usually people will take lessons first for awhile before they buy a horse just my .02 though.
Yes, get a skilled adult in to help you with this. Pay them what they ask. A good trainer and horseperson, someone with patience and skills. Perhaps they can also suggest some modifications to your set-up, such as building a small round pen in the field that the horse can learn to enter to get grain.
Can the previous owners give you any help? Are they good horse people?
It’s all very well to go the cheap route, toss a horse on pasture, but if you can’t catch the horse, there’s no point having it at all.
I have a question: did you have this pony at your house by itself ( no other horse or pony with it) when it was running up to you?
And did this start ( the running away and not coming up to you) when you added another horse/pony?
Sometimes when there is only one Equine on the property they can become overly attached to humans because they are herd animals.
To me, it sounds like your horse is confused, and that your horse isn’t understanding what you want enough to be engaged with you. I agree - I’d get a quality NH trainer (if that’s what you’re into) to come out and watch you. In the mean time, I don’t think “sending her away” is helping you at all, and she seems to be confused about your intentions. She’s happily “going away”. Why not halter her and do work stuff?
I never do anything with my horses in their field except catch them. Their field is their area to run, buck, etc., not work area. We go to another space that is work area, and I expect their attention. However, I also make it fun and groom them, so they like coming out of the pasture. They like the work.
If she’s alone, she’s going to transfer horse behavior to you, and that’s not a good thing. Horses can run and kick out at each other, but you don’t want them doing that with you! Does your horse have a buddy? I’m sorry if I missed this point.
