Has anyone heard of Ravel? He’s a warmblood (I think Hano), and an absolute monster. Seriously whacko. His owner leased him out to someone who honestly shouldn’t have had a stallion, and then tried to pawn him off on my trainer. He wasn’t so bad under saddle, just ruined from bad riding, but on the ground, he was neurotic with the biting. All you would have to do would be stand at the door, and he’d sit in the back of his stall biting at the air.
Not the Ravel Steffen Peters rode in the Olympics last year, right?
I have heard that the QH racing stallion Go Man Go was pretty awful to deal with. However, quite a few years back I had a grandson of his, a NICE QH stallion that was an absolutely WONDERFUL horse in all ways. His foals inherited his great disposition and work ethic so I guess it didn’t get passed down the line!
[QUOTE=shawneeAcres;4524756]
I have heard that the QH racing stallion Go Man Go was pretty awful to deal with. However, quite a few years back I had a grandson of his, a NICE QH stallion that was an absolutely WONDERFUL horse in all ways. His foals inherited his great disposition and work ethic so I guess it didn’t get passed down the line![/QUOTE]
I’ve got a g’daughter of Story Man (GMG son) who is as mellow as they come. I love the Story Man horses.
Straw Bandit, QH, was a bad SOB. Attacked a bicycle for sport. My vet popped him on the shoulder, I think, for wallowing and wiggling. Earl looked at him, said, Oh Charles, I wish you hadn’t done that. Straw Bandit ran Earl, Charles, and Charles’ assistant under a tri-axle dump truck and kept them there about 30 minutes, circling that truck and gnashing his teeth.
You couldn’t drive a truck out in his field with the windows down. He’d come after you. Once a year or so they’d run the bunch in and separate him from overhead, like you’d sort cattle at auction.
TKR, I recall when that Arabian got a hold of her. He was a rogue and she’s a whale of a horsewoman. He was bad.
It is important to differentiate between a bad tempered stallion who became dangerous because of handling or the life he was forced to live - and one who raliably passes on a bad disposition.
Since internal qualities are judged to be about 50% of a stallion’s test, it shows the importance the WB registries place on temperament, willingness to work, and so on.
I still basically believe that horses are born with good will and that problems that occur afterwards are man made. So, while my horses have Fair Play in their pedigree, I’m not about to blame every little misdemeanour on their ancestor.
Allyn M-I remember reading the story here on a thread a few years about about vicious TB studs and as I recall the young stallion was an Alydar (the one who finished second to Affirmed-I hope I have it in the right order) offspring and apparently the line was very mean. Another really mean one was Criminal something-maybe Criminal Type? I thought that was ironic that he was called criminal.
[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;4524857]
I still basically believe that horses are born with good will and that problems that occur afterwards are man made. So, while my horses have Fair Play in their pedigree, I’m not about to blame every little misdemeanour on their ancestor.[/QUOTE]
Ditto.
my stallion, davignport, is the antithesis of mean
my new stallion, is a smart wonderful guy and is not mean at
all. he makes a few faces, but don’t all men, really now?.
love my guy. he has big beautiful liquid eyes and if he acts
crabby, i just call him on it and he is like “momma has spoken,
no need to rock the boat”. we are happy with our guy.
[QUOTE=LegalEagle;4524713]
Not the Ravel Steffen Peters rode in the Olympics last year, right?[/QUOTE]
Nope, this guy: http://www.americanwarmblood.org/approval/stallions/ravel.htm
Johar, standing for stud at Mill Ridge, is a jerk to deal with. He lives 24/7 in a muzzle.
I don’t know about a TB stallion the Monty Roberts had, but I dealt with a QH he bred and raised and it was the worst, most ill mannered @$$ of a horse I have ever been around. He thought about ways to attack you.
You know, this may be an urban legend, as I remember a story so similar (and also never knew names and details), about the second stallion jumping the fences and fighting the first which was savaging the owner. In the story as I read it, the second, beloved, stallion did not survive and the first was put down and found to have a brain tumor. Truly a memorable and dreadful story.
Yeah, I also had heard that he had been mishandled in his youth and that is why he was a bit tough on the ground sometimes. I wonder why Hilltop didn’t mention the broken leg when announcing his passing. Their announcement was so - um - “mysterious” that a lot of people were left wondering about the reason, and I had been told about him mutilating himself by someone with a connection to Hilltop.
At any rate, I knew he didn’t tend to pass on his tough personality. I once boarded at a place with a Cor Noir gelding, and he was pretty sweet - really a big lovable goofball.
He thought about ways to attack you.
Do we really believe that horses can reason in this manner, as in “I am going to wait until she turns her back on me one day and lets down her guard and then I am going to nail her good!” ???
I thought that beliefs along this line, was attaching human emotions and thought processes over to an animal, which simply was not correct or possible?
Humans are not the only animals that have emotions. I clearly believe that horses are capable of some level of reason and emotion and believing that they can is not anthropomorphizing. I’ve seen my stallion pissed off enough at another stallion to bite his gate and shake his head in what sure looks like angry frustration because he can’t go over and fight him up close.
For the record, my stallion is not people aggressive at all…is quite gentle…pics of him on my site at KHP getting petted by kids, but he does not like other male horses to be around his paddock and he will act up at that time putting on a display of what he’d like to do to the other “guy” who dares to come into his territory.
As to whether a horse could “plan” an attack like that, I don’t know. I think some are smart enough to think a problem through. I’ve seen it too many times as a trainer over the years to think all horses are dumb as rocks. Certainly some are but not all.
I think some scientist once rated a horse’s intelligence to be about equivalent to a dog…a different sort of smarts as they are herbivores versus carnivores, but they are smart enough to be trained for many tasks to include seeing eye horses for blind people (minis). That’s pretty damn smart.
I don’t think horses can “hate” with the passion that people can nor dream up ways of killing others with exotic weapons…nor do I think they have spiritual beliefs, but I do think they have simple but clear, strong emotions.
As mentioned previously Storm Cat was quite the evil equine. People used to joke on the track that Storm Cat won because the other horses were too afraid to pass him. This is, in fact, true as when you watched him race he would reach out, pin his ears flat back ,and bite/snap at a passing horse.
Unfortunatly (or fortunatly depending on how you look at it, from a racing standpoint this could be a plus) his offspring for the most part have had this attitude passed down. They are known for being diffucult to handle & be handy with their teeth.
This was a recent posting on the thoroughbredchampions board:
Sir Tristram. A real “stallion” who was one of the greatest modern day sires of all time. He would require two handlers, who used to wear helmets, a safety jacket. Both would have to accompany him to and from the breeding barn. A mare would be fitted with a mat on her neck, where he would lash into her. The foals would have to be kept out of side, so that he may not attack and kill them. I remember watching a movie on him, where he was fitted with two bits, and they showed his owner, Sir Patrick Hogan reminiscing about the day Sir Tristram picked up his brother, by the thumb from his mouth and tossed him over the fence, and went to charge at him, letting him know he was the King.
Spinning World. Remains in Australia, because he is far to dangerous to export and fly around the world. He is under constant muzzle, and the handlers always carry a big wooden baton “just in case.”
Gadzookies. I wear steel toed boots when breeding or collecting in case my toes get inadvertently squished if they are in the wrong place at the wrong time, but to have to wear combat gear just to breed a mare is getting “up there” for me …
And maybe its a whole 'nuther ballgame when the stallions are generating hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenues each year, but I couldnt fathom having to keep a stallion “under muzzle” 24/7 and having to carry a big stick whenever I got near him and wondering if today was the day I was going to get nailed for keeps … 
[QUOTE=vineyridge;4519260]
Display was a not brother of Man O’War. The sire was Fair Play. Family is famous for mean. Display was evil even when he was racing. I hate to think what he was like at stud. But he was a very great sire. There was a horse by Fair Play named Mad Hatter who was a wonderful race horse, but lived up to his name, supposedly–although his dam was Madcap. He raced until he was 9 or so. He is absolutely gorgeous.
OTOH, the most prolific sire-damsire nick in American racing ever, per Avalyn Hunter, was Fair Play/Rock Sand. Something like 63% of all males from that cross were winners of major stakes.[/QUOTE]
The big problem was not so much Fair Play as his unraced sire, Hastings. Hastings was a rank bastard who was probably as close as you get to an equine sociopath. Fair Play was mean, but Hastings would try to kill you and mean it. He was too dangerous to race and while I don’t know if he ever actually killed anyone he did manage to cost at least one handler some fingers.
However, while they were still HOT for the most part, cross Fair Play on a Rock Sand mare and you would get a good horse. Or even great. Man o’ War and his full brother My Play were also both fantastic sires, and Man o’ Wars son War Admiral is one of the most important broodmare sires in US thoroughbreds while War Relic is another important breeding stallion.
Though wasn’t Hard Tack on the mean side, plus slow?
Huh, I wonder what happened to Spinning World to make him that way. He obviously wasn’t that tough during his racing days as he was shipped all over the UK and France to race, and also did two trips over to North America for Breeders Cups.
[QUOTE=TrueColours;4525309]
This was a recent posting on the thoroughbredchampions board:
Gadzookies. I wear steel toed boots when breeding or collecting in case my toes get inadvertently squished if they are in the wrong place at the wrong time, but to have to wear combat gear just to breed a mare is getting “up there” for me …
And maybe its a whole 'nuther ballgame when the stallions are generating hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenues each year, but I couldnt fathom having to keep a stallion “under muzzle” 24/7 and having to carry a big stick whenever I got near him and wondering if today was the day I was going to get nailed for keeps … :([/QUOTE]
Really makes you appreciate the well mannered ones, doesn’t it? I can lead Image around by his mane, squish and coddle him all I want, walk whoever I want by the stall, give lessons on him, etc, and he’s always a perfect gentleman. Stories like all these make me really grateful that he is so gentle.
