Barn I formerly boarded at, both BO’s were nurses, so yes they did a lot of vet care for us boarders. IV, IM, SubQ, wound care, etc. Frankly I learned a great deal of what I know from them, and can do a damn good job of tending a wound, injury, and giving my own shots (altho I do not do IV).
Everyone I knew was pretty grateful to have this available as having to have your vet come out daily for whatever reason can get real spendy real fast.
For that matter they were great at helping us humans with our ‘vet care’ too…:lol:
I will provide a band aid or an ice pack to an boarder in need. I have driven people to the ER and I will call 911. I do not provide medical care on my farm. Medical care is something doctors and nurses provide.
Similarly veterinary care is something vets provide. As a BO, my state allows me to give injections and I give my own vaccinations. I only do IV. I am not comfortable with IM. I have medications that I purchase from my vet…SMZs, bute, banamine that I will administer. I have various wound care and topical treatments. Depending on the situation, I may or may not call a vet for my own horses. Some things just resolve themselves if left alone over time. Then there are obvious other things that I call a vet for immediately. Again this is for my own horses.
For boarded horses – emergency situation, I will call the vet, then call you. Non-emergency, I will call you and you can call the vet. I will do my best to coordinate care with you and the vet. All horses on my farm live out 24/7. So if your horse needs stall rest, I have a few stalls but you’ll need to make arrangements to care for the stall bound horse. It will cost you more. If your horse needs intensive care, my suggestion is that you haul to the vet’s barn or go to a lay-up facility. I don’t mind giving the horse some feed through meds or putting on some ointment, but if we are talking about intensive bandage changing or special needs care, then the best option for the horse is to go to a lay-up facility. Anything I do with a non-owned horse must be under the direction of a vet. Field boarding is not ideal for some recuperation. Other times it works just fine.
I am fully insured for liability, including care, custody and control. I submit my boarding contract, standard release and barn rules to my insurance carrier every year. I warrant that I follow the terms in the contract.
What degree of medical care is provided at your barn?
They will remove wraps (not full on bandages) and will put meds in feed but will not syringe them into horse’s mouth.
Does the BM clip, scrub and attend wounds like lacerations and things needing daily attention like punctures?
Heck no. Out of the close to 10 barns I have been at none have done that.
Do they do injections like antibiotics and if yes, IM only or IV as well?
One barn did IM injections of penicillin and another did IV Pentosan gold (I provided the injection, needle, and syringe).
At what point does the BM tell you to call the vet or is that always up to you?
BM/ BO has always sent pictures and had me decide when/ if to call vet, though they will typically give their opinion.
Do they administer IV banamine for a colic if the vet says to do so?
No. Only one barn I have been at did the BO/BM know how to do IV but she would not administer meds to horses that she did not own (via IM or IV).
If the clients do their own medical care, does the BM intervene if it’s not going well?
Not that I have seen. I am currently using Underwood’s on my mare’s wound on her knee, so it looks pretty nasty/ unattended (for those who do not know you are not supposed to clean or wrap the wound when using Underwood’s and it is healing very well) and no one has said anything.
Does the BM dispense basic medical advice and do the clients follow it or do what they want?
Typically the only advice given is whether or not they think I should call the vet, and most of the time we are on the same page.
Does the BM have formal medical training whether it be animal or human?
Some have (RNs or EMTs no vets) some did not.
When answering these questions, can you also tell me if you are in a self care barn, full care but not a training barn, or full care and training?
All full care with the exception of one short term self care barn.
My former BO was a vet tech, so she was licensed and capable of administering medication, injections, etc. It was also a full care boarding situation. The monthly board fee was very steep, but owners didn’t have to think twice about care. My horse had a laceration on his leg that required SMZs, cold-hosing and wrapping for 10 days. The BO administered the meds, cold-hosed, and wrapped whenever I couldn’t be there. She taught me a lot about treating routine bumps and scraps, administering meds, so I feel comfortable doing most things on my own.
My current barn owner will administer oral medications upon request. If it’s a one-time thing, she generally doesn’t charge for it. If it’s an ongoing treatment plan, she’ll work out a reasonable fee with the horse’s owner. They won’t wrap, soak, or cold-hose, although they will remove wraps upon request.
Part of the boarding agreement is a clause that says that the BO will contact their usual vet in emergency situations (severe injury, colic, etc.) and then contact the owner as soon as possible. If it’s something less urgent, she’ll call first to consult with the owner.
What degree of medical care is provided at your barn?
At my current barn none unless the horse is in for designated layup board, a care plan has been worked out with BO (for a fee), or its an emergency situation. I’m notified if they observe something non-emergent, depending on the nature of what it is they will take care of things like cold hosing or putting ointment on until I can arrive
Does the BM clip, scrub and attend wounds like lacerations and things needing daily attention like punctures?
For a fee
Do they do injections like antibiotics and if yes, IM only or IV as well?
I’ve never required this so am not sure
At what point does the BM tell you to call the vet or is that always up to you?
If its an emergency situation there are directions laid out in my contract about calling the vet, monetary limits, and surgery decisions. Otherwise, they may ask if I want to call for something like a swollen knee but non-emergent situations are left at my discretion
Do they administer IV banamine for a colic if the vet says to do so?
Yes
If the clients do their own medical care, does the BM intervene if it’s not going well?
The boarders at my current barn are all mostly competent horse people, BM will offer assistance if it looks like a person could use an extra hand or make suggestions if asked for advice but there’s never been a situation I’ve observed where someone was doing something incorrectly or otherwise that required intervention.
Does the BM dispense basic medical advice and do the clients follow it or do what they want?
BM will offer suggestions if asked but otherwise boarders are expected to know what to do or seek veterinary guideance
Does the BM have formal medical training whether it be animal or human?
Was a large animal vet tech for several years
When answering these questions, can you also tell me if you are in a self care barn, full care but not a training barn, or full care and training?
Barn offers full care, training, sales, and layups. My horse is full care.
Haven’t been around much lately, but I somehow got tagged on this.
My cardiology professor’s favorite answer is, “it depends.”
That said, there are a lot of different scenarios to be considered.
And state statutes differ, as well.
In many states, it is legal to treat your own animal, provided what you are doing doesn’t constitute animal cruelty.
In some states, it is legal for an employee to treat animals owned by their employer. (Not in MA, in case you were wondering.)
A fair amount of what appears to be SOP out there, is, technically, in violation of state regs in a lot of places.
It’s just a vanishingly low law enforcement priority.
When I was teaching vet techs and equine studies majors, I had a long conversation with a DVM who was a member of the State Board in MA, because I wanted clarification on what was legal and what wasn’t.
Technically speaking, in MA, it isn’t even “legal” to dispense a bottle of flunixin (or a bottle of a sedative, or a bottle of antibiotics) to a barn manager to “have on hand in case it’s needed.”
Any prescription drug must be for an individual (or herd/flock) that belongs to an owner, and there must be a valid veterinarian/client/patient relationship (which usually means I’ve done an exam on the beast sometime within the last 6 months or so).
I had asked about this specifically, because
a) I know people keep a lot of drugs around and often administer them, sometimes after a call to the vet, sometimes without calling, and
b) the state had recently slapped a DVM who had provided a prescription oral coccidiostat to a pet shop to “have on hand” to treat puppies with diarrhea. And they followed up by sending all of us a letter telling us to not do things like that. (And they said, yes, large animal people, we mean you, too.)
So, what I was told was that it is never appropriate to dispense stuff in the absence of a specific individual with a current need for it. And the label needs to reflect that.
It was less clear whether, given say, an animal that required antibiotic injections could legitimately have them done by the barn staff, but I am inclined to think yes. (“by or on the order of a licensed veterinarian” being the case there. But IMO, that means I’m putting my neck in the noose, too.)
A shot of flunixin to a colicky horse–no.
Now, there is also the issue of liability in case things go south. Which s why DVMs carry insurance. If barn staff administer medications, and the animal has a reaction/drops dead/develops an injection site abscess/aspirates/etc., the barn owner may be held liable. I advise asking your insurance agent whether you would be covered for that.
I always advised my students to stay away from treating insured horses for that reason, since many insurers will look for an out vs. paying off on a claim if there’s a chance they can. “Oh, you let a groom give the injection? What medical training do they have? Did they assess the horse’s condition before they gave the injection? did they use proper technique? Are you sure a fresh needle was used?” etc.
It amazed me how often my students would tell me that friends had expressed delight that the student could give injections, and would they please do friend’s horse for them. I always told them to decline. A friendship would have to be awfully close to survive the horse dropping dead of anaphylaxis, nevermind the possibility of the lawsuit, after the insurer declined to cover it, and the owner was now out five figures on a horse.
Tired of reading yet?
Personally, I know it doesn’t require 4 years of vet school to hit a vein, or vaccinate a horse, but during those 4 years, I also learned stuff like making sure a horse doesn’t have a 3rd degree heart block before giving detomidine, (and why a slip with the needle could kill you) or why it’s a bad idea to give IM injections in the dorsal rump, or how throwing antibiotics at a viral infection are, at the least, useless, and at the worst, can cause a drug reaction, as well as contributing to antibiotic resistance, or even when giving antibiotics for a bacterial infection, there are reasons to choose one and not another, and the most important reason is not that it is the one in the cupboard, and so forth.
And, finally, I spent a lot of time and money learning this stuff, and I still pay a lot of money to continue doing this stuff (just spent over $700 renewing my DEA certificate), and I tend to shy away from getting myself into a situation where the authorities are going to squint at me funny because a client wanted to save a few bucks. And when the fecal matter hits the air circulating device, the person with the license gets held to the highest level of responsibility, because we’re supposed to know better. And the people who wanted to play doctor aren’t likely to make my truck payments for me and buy feed for my horses if I get my credentials yanked over it.
Where I work and board, the BM attended the same college I did (equine management degree), so I trust her decision making completely. If myself or any other staff notice an injury or situation requiring veterinarian attention, we let her know and she makes the required decisions. When my horse came in with a large bite on his back, she cleaned up the wound before calling me. Since I live less then 10 minutes away, I was able to go to the barn to assess the wound and decide if I wanted the vet called.
A lot of the boarders are pretty hands on, but it isn’t out of the ordinary for them to ask if we could sweat or poltice a leg. Staff also give oral meds, apply wound ointment, and eye drops or cream. The BM gives IM and IV meds, and although I can do the same, she prefers to do this herself. Long or short term care, there is no charge.
