Medical care provided at your barn - BM's and clients weigh in

[skyy]

What degree of medical care is provided at your barn? Does the BM clip, scrub and attend wounds like lacerations and things needing daily attention like punctures? Do they do injections like antibiotics and if yes, IM only or IV as well? At what point does the BM tell you to call the vet or is that always up to you? Do they administer IV banamine for a colic if the vet says to do so?

If the clients do their own medical care, does the BM intervene if it’s not going well? Does the BM dispense basic medical advice and do the clients follow it or do what they want?

Does the BM have formal medical training whether it be animal or human?

When answering these questions, can you also tell me if you are in a self care barn, full care but not a training barn, or full care and training?

Thanks everyone.

[Simkie]

Related question: is a barn manager giving injections to a horse that is not their own practicing veterinary medicine without a license?

[Janet]

I have my horses at home now, but when I was boarding (3 different places, full care, not “training”, though I did take lessons), the BM did not do any of those things.

They DID call me if they noticed a horse had been injured. If they couldn’t get hold of me, they would have called the vet.

[findeight]

I do some form or other of full care and they took care of minor problems under guidance from the barns regular vet, that phone call consult is always their first step while immediate first aid ( or Banimine) is taken care of… Anything unusual, they had the vet out, I did have full care, custody and control written into the contract with a payment account at the vets.

I travel extensively for work. I don’t want my horses to suffer one extra minute because I am out of touch or can’t drop everything and be at the barn within an hour. Take care of immediate needs, call the vet then try to call me. In that order.

[Edre]

Full care but not really a training barn (instructors might school a client’s horse once every 7-14 days).

In general the barn barn takes on immediate care (horse comes in with a scrape that is in need of attention, horse is obviously colicking and needs intervention) and any emergency first aid that comes up. They’ll contact owners as they manage those situations.

For more chronic situations owners and management make a care plan. Barn will administer medications provided (and if a powder or otherwise fed medication, pre-prepared) on a determined schedule.

Barn has also done daily care in situations like flushing out a deep tissue abscess. They don’t soak or cold hose. Typically management is involved in creating care plans for any injuries that crop up and they’re very quick to identify if something needs a veterinary intervention will inform owners of it. When owner consents, management will call vet. They typically can keep costs down in situations where horses are hauled to the equine clinic by inviting anyone whose horses are in need of routine maintenance (injections, teeth, etc) to come along. Clinic fee and trailering fee gets defrayed among attendees.

Largely this is reflective of our barn membership: well meaning owners who know enough about horses to get by but if something comes up medically they aren’t comfortable making decisions on their own so defer to the professionals in their lives. Barn is set up to accommodate this type of client. There are a few of us in the minority who are more hands on/more informed and we tend to do our own care/decisions but will still consult with barn management to bounce ideas off of.

[Denali6298]

I have boarded at all of the above. At the self care place, when I was on stall rest the BO handled any veterinary care for me. She charged if you just wanted her to do it.

At the full care full training place I asked if that was something they took care of and if they I charged for it. I was told yes they do and they only charged if it was a prolonged issue. Ie, cold hosing, hand walking and wrapping for a week plus when I am out of town. That was not ever a thing. Just lip service.

The barn I am at now is full care with no training. I get called if something is wrong with my mare. If anything beyond put some ointment on a cut were to happen I would probably ask one of my barn mates to handle it. They would call the vet and I have a addendum in my contract to call the vet if I cannot be reached. I’d rather pay a vet bill that’s unnecessary than my horse go without needed vet attention.

[mmeqcenter]

I’m a BO. I offer Full board (not training), Partial board, and Pasture board.
If a horse winds up with a small scrape or something that doesn’t really need any immediate attention, I text the horse owner to tell them, usually with a photo, and move on. If it is very dirty I will hose it off real quick.
If a horse comes in with a large scrape, cut, swollen leg, etc, I text the horse owner with a photo; I will hose it to clean or cold hose swelling upon initial discovery if HO cannot come out that day. Further care is charged hourly.
I will change bandages, wraps, etc. long term, and I charge an hourly rate for my time. Topical ointments I will apply, medications provided I will feed or dose with an oral syringe daily, no charge. If needed more than twice a day (at feeding times) I charge for my time. I do not and will not administer injections, neither IV nor IM.
If a horse has a significant wound that needs veterinary attention, or is choking or colicking, I call the HO immediately. If they do not answer I then call their vet and do what their vet asks me to do until they arrive. I then continue trying to contact the HO owner. I will hold horse for up to an hour; if further assistance is needed I charge a fee for my time.

I also offer Retirement board, and its fee includes me holding horse for vet, farrier, etc., changing bandages, wrapping, all that. It’s fee is also considerably higher than my full board to account for that additional time spent.

My BO philosophy comes from how I behaved as a boarder. When I boarded, if there was a major medical issue, I either dropped whatever I was doing, or had my mom or dad or sister or a friend go out for me if my job wouldn’t let me leave or something. I would never have expected a BO to sit with my horse for four hours for any reason, period. It’s my horse, not theirs. I’ve driven to the barn four times in one day before to care for my horse, 40 minutes one way. Right before I moved to Florida a little over a year ago, I had to drive to the barn, 30 minutes one way, twice a day for two weeks for a pasture injury. Life happens. You own a horse, they get injured, you work it out. I know that many people have differing opinions when they are boarding about what they expect of a BO, but, I can’t please everyone, so I run my barn based off the expectations I had when I was a boarder. I’m happy to take care of these things for people, particularly if they’re on vacation or something, but I don’t think it’s fair to expect BOs to do so for free. Just like when I boarded, the one time I couldn’t get someone to the barn for me, I paid the BO to wrap my horse’s legs. Time is money.

[Abbie.S]

@Simkie

Related question: is a barn manager giving injections to a horse that is not their own practicing veterinary medicine without a license?

I would think (although logic oftentimes fails to have a place in law) it depends on the nature of the injection.

If I as the owner have a script given to me for my horse by a licensed vet for something like Banamine*, Legend or Ace, and my BO uses it on my horse with my permission/on my order (either explicit or implied, in the case of many emergent medical situations where contract states the BO may do what is necessary in the best interests of the horse) because I am either unavailable or unable to administer it myself, is that illegal practicing veterinary medicine?

What about routine vaccinations? I often request my vet fill whatever syringes I need for the spring shots and then I go pick them up and administer them. Far easier for me than trying to schedule a farm call for just a few shots. If BO administers these, is that unlawful practice?

Probably also worth noting that (and I know the answers to these scenarios, necessarily) even IF a BO in any above situation was breaking the law, someone has to file charges against them for it amount to anything.

[Simkie]

@Abbie.S

What about routine vaccinations? I often request my vet fill whatever syringes I need for the spring shots and then I go pick them up and administer them. Far easier for me than trying to schedule a farm call for just a few shots. If BO administers these, is that unlawful practice?

It’s always been my understanding–and I may be 100% wrong!–that you are allowed to do things to your OWN animal, but once you are doing things that are veterinary in nature to animals you don’t own, you better be a vet.

And sure, you only get in trouble if someone complains, but one irate former boarder has the potential to make life pretty difficult!

Curious what the experts have to say! (Maybe @Ghazzu knows?)

[MissAriel]

I am in full training and my trainer can and will do pretty much everything needed as part of full training - wound care, wrapping, IM injections (either routine as in Adequan or emergent like banamine for colic on vet’s rec), etc. If I was not in full training, but taking lessons with her she would be willing to do the same “rehab care” for a fee. Where I am the BM isn’t really a horse person, so I wouldn’t expect or want the BM doing anything.

[luvmyhackney]

My barn sends me a text if they notice anything. Other than that, they are hands off. If I need them to give meds they will and do for a fee unless its something they just add to the feed.

I’m not sure if I want them to do anything else. Vet is aware I travel and is fine doing what is needed provided horse is in a stall when they arrive. If its something that can’t wait I just have the vet out and pay accordingly.

[lifeishorsesarelove]

I’ve boarded mainly at 2 different barns which are very different in terms of management and set up.

1st barn - small, all outdoor board. Owner had a equine management degree. I was an absentee owner while here as I was 2hrs away at college and home maybe 2x a month.
Emergency care if needed was handled for free and I totally trusted her to make the best call. Extended care would have required payments for the extra time. If it was a vet call type emergency and I was unavailable, our contract had a specified limit and I had a credit card on file with the vet.

2nd barn; bigger facility but I am more involved in care decisions. Manager lives off site and I don’t trust her as much to make calls that I’ll agree with. We have different standards of care on many ways - but we’re also good friends and we easilyagree to disagree. If something major came up, she will call me and then the vet. Again, credit card on file. Mid level urgent whileI’m away, she will talk to me and will handle it per my directions until I can get out. Minor boo boos she notifies me only. The important thing to me is I can 100% trust that my horse is fed and watered properly with her and her day to day care is A+, even if we disagree on some things.

[Echo55]

I am a BM.

@findeight

I travel extensively for work. I don’t want my horses to suffer one extra minute because I am out of touch or can’t drop everything and be at the barn within an hour. Take care of immediate needs, call the vet then try to call me. In that order.

^^This has always been protocol at whatever barn I have been in charge of whether the owner travels a lot or not. I could not sit by and do nothing for a horse that is in need just because I could not reach an owner. With that said the barns that I have been in charge of have been small, full care, with boarders that TRUST me to make these decisions. The sooner I can get a Vet out to help a horse that is in trouble the better IMO. As far as the small stuff that does not require a Vet, I will take care of it and make a call to the Owner.

I think that most people that board horses do so because they do not have the time or the availability or the means to be with their horse at all times. They are hardworking individuals that are not always able to drop everything because their horse needs a band aid. And IMO they pay for it.

As far as administering meds via shots goes I would have to say that should be up to the comfort level of the BM, BO and client combined. And should be discussed before said horse arrives on the property. With any changes made later added to the contract to protect everyone. I have always administered all meds - with Veterinary guidance of course. Giving banamine for colic should only be done AFTER speaking with a Vet as far as I am concerned.

Every boarding contract I have ever seen protects it’s employees and releases them from any liability - no matter what the cause. Do we think that this does not apply to routine medical care provided by said employee?

[Janet]

Every boarding contract I have ever seen protects it’s employees and releases them from any liability - no matter what the cause. Do we think that this does not apply to routine medical care provided by said employee?

It may protect you from LIABILITY, but I do not think it protects you from criminal charges if someone goes to the police.

Also, it probably voids the horse’s medical/mortality insurance.

[mmeqcenter]

I am a BO of a small boarding barn. We offer stall board, partial board, and pasture board. No training.
I do not provide injections of any kind.

If a horse is discovered with a non-emergency issue, I will text the owner, usually with a photo, and perhaps hose off and apply ointment if the owner cannot get to the barn that day. Further care or daily care afterwards (bandaging, wrapping, hosing, etc., anything more than swiping on some ointment real quick) would be charged on an hourly rate.
If a horse is discovered with an emergency, I immediately call the owner and tell them to call their vet, or call their vet then them, whichever each person has requested; if they do not answer I call the vet, continue to try to contact owner, and follow vet instructions until vet arrives. I am willing to hold/walk/sit with horse for one hour to give the horse owner time to get to the barn or find someone to arrive on their behalf to care for their horse; further assistance needed is charged hourly.

I understand people board because they don’t have the time to be at the barn 24/7. That doesn’t mean that BOs/BMs should be expected to sit with your horse for four hours with no compensation. I’m sure the BO/BM had other things to do, and yes emergencies happen, but why should the BO/BM have to pay for it with their time? It’s the horse owner’s horse and ultimately their responsibility in the long run. I held this same opinion as a boarder, which formed my fee structure when I bought my farm last year.

[IslandDQ]

I have a small boarding barn and all my boarders have a filled out form with their wishes in the event of an emergency where they cannot be reached, it includes general limits, surgery wishes and insurance information if the horse is insured. It’s understood that I will help where I can, walk a colicy horse until the owner or vet arrive. I absolutely will not give injections of any sort. I will give meds as prescribed orally in feed.

[ryansgirl]

I rough board - have for years. I’ve never done full board nor will I ever. No one and I mean no one is allowed to touch my horse(s) except my vet. I realize a lot of people don’t have the experience to deal with a lot of things so they rely on their BO/BM and that’s fine - as long as they are qualified (unfortunately I’ve seen too many who thought they were but in reality weren’t).

No one except a vet should be doing injections. Thats opening up such a huge liability mess if something goes wrong.

[findthedistance]

I run a small boarding barn. Most of the horses in my care are retirees, and while the owners are not out that frequently, they are available when I call. We will notice an issue and triage. If it’s a clear-cut, time-sensitive emergency (violent colic, sudden onset neuro, broken limb), I call the vet first and the client second. If it’s something a vet probably should see that day but not 911, I call the client first and let them handle it. Most minor things, we let the owner know and they handle it. Superficial scrapes are often just cleaned up and treated by whomever sees it first, with a text notifying the owner. Again, these are retired horses and the owners are usually out once a week, max. They’re very happy not to have to come out to put some AluShield on a ding.

We administer various prescription medications under veterinary direction (oral dosed or in feed, eye meds, IM and IV injections) at normal feeding times. I make a point not to practice veterinary medicine without a license, but if the vet has dispensed medications with directions, we will do that. In my situation, I’m generally there during this discussion and it’s clear who (vet, barn staff, owner) will be doing the administration. I did have an owner try to get me to give her horse 227mg of Previcox for several days without a vet’s order. That was a hard no. And we sometimes decline to do injections based on the horse’s behavior.

For ongoing needs like soaking, wrapping, handwalking, etc., clients are expected to come out and do it or make arrangements. There’s always someone kicking around looking for a little extra cash. In a pinch I’ll wrap and bill for it, but it’s discouraged because it’s a time-suck. For the same reason (not always someone available at off-hours), we do not offer medication administration except at feeding times.

My assistant manager was a small animal vet tech in a past life. All of my training has been school of hard knocks. The majority of my clients are long-time horse owners, so I don’t get many questions about basic first aid. (Although my all-time favorite/most horrifying text from a client was, “[Horse Name] Blood Help.”)

[Abbie.S]

@Simkie

It’s always been my understanding–and I may be 100% wrong!–that you are allowed to do things to your OWN animal, but once you are doing things that are veterinary in nature to animals you don’t own, you better be a vet.

And sure, you only get in trouble if someone complains, but one irate former boarder has the potential to make life pretty difficult!

Curious what the experts have to say! (Maybe @Ghazzu knows?)

I haven’t seen @Ghazzu in a while…Ghazzu, we need your wisdom!

I have always understood the same thing, Simkie - but I’m curious, too, because from my point of view, if I specifically ask my BO to give my horse an injectable, it basically amounts to the same thing as me doing it myself.

I then got to thinking, for emergent cases, if my BO can’t get ahold of me and makes the call to give my obviously distressed horse Banamine (I don’t give it IV and definitely not IM, I give it orally under the tongue, but anyway…) before calling the vet for further instructions…is that practicing without a license? Gets you wondering how many barns owners realistically follow a certain order of operations - I know plenty of BOs, and I’m probably guilty of it myself, of giving a horse Banamine or beginning to stabilize a large wound before calling the vet.

[reignthealarm]

Most places I’ve worked and/or boarded at have had the rule of: take care of horse first, call vet (if emergency), then call owner. If it needed vet but was not immediate emergency, the horse owner is called first and they call the vet themselves. After care usually included rinsing wounds, putting on ointment or giving bute/meds (pre-made) at regular feeding times. Hosing and hand walking could easily be arranged depending on how long the horse needed it. You give permission in the contract for the BO or barn help to give your horse medical care if you are not present.

Only one barn I managed did not include any medical care in the contract (other than calling vet in emergency). BO was absentee (had a separate day job and traveled often) so all daily care was up to the horse owner. Luckily I worked there 6 days a week so I was able to help out if anyone else needed care but owners were not able to make it to the barn. I enlisted a boarder’s help one day a week if anyone needed treatment. Unfortunately that was the barn that my horse seemed to get hurt at the most so we didn’t stay long.

If the horse owner gives written permission for the BO or staff to give/seek medical care for their horse its probably alright unless there is a list of exclusions. That being said, if it is not your horse, any injections or medications should not be given without vet consultation first!! Hard to do when a horse is colicing as you want to get banamine quick but may save your ass from an irate client if things don’t end well. Otherwise, specifically write out that banamine can be given without vet consult and have them sign it.