Medicating/Sedating Horse

[Strangeways]

I’ve written about this pony and his problem with the lameness and the vet. Pony belongs to someone else, and I was teaching him basic dressage and occasionally jumping, usually no more than two feet. In spring 2022, pony, who had always been very sound, was off in the hind end. Hard to specify where/how, seemed like it was in the lower spine or hip. Occasional shortness in the left hind. It was intermittent, and time off, no more than 10 days, didn’t seem to help.

So have the vet come out, right? But pony is afraid of vets because of a needle phobia. He hadn’t seen a vet for a couple years and this point, behind on his vaccines. His previous vet “broke up” with him because pony became too fractious. A vet finally came out this past spring. Pony pegged her as a vet before he was fully out of his stall; I think because of “vet smell.” Vet watched pony move and did some flexions and palpations. But she couldn’t diagnose without x-rays, which mean sedation. Her preliminary diagnosis was actually right front leg/hoof not hind end. Said right foot was small and compressed on the inner wall. Also found some spurs on that leg. Sure enough, pony was limping on the right leg a couple weeks later.

The plan devised by the vet and I was that I would give pony trazadone to “pre-sedate” him so that the vet could then properly sedate him for the x-rays. I needed to perform some trials to see how much trazadone we needed; the vet gave me the amount. In the first test, he gobbled down the treats I made with the trazadone within, but he didn’t become very sedated. Not surprising, as his owner indicated he was resistant to sedation. For the second trial I increase the dosage per the vet’s advice, but he wouldn’t eat the treats, not even the one without the pills. He figured it out. Starting to believe he’s not necessarily afraid of needles, but of sedation itself. Because he will eat supplements, which don’t sedate, in his breakfast everyday.

The the question–finally–is what to do next? I considered grinding the pills and hiding them in a mash. But even if that worked for the next trial, would it work again for the actual visit? Should we try more medication? He’s takes MSM, which seemed to help with the hind-end problems, but not with the right leg. Vet prescribed Equioxx, but the owner doesn’t want to try anymore medications (hoping to persuade her otherwise). Should we give him some serious time off, complete with stall rest? I haven’t ridden him in a couple months, but his owner rides him a couple times a week, short rides, mostly walk/trot with the occasional canter. Is darting a thing or only for wild animals?

tl;dr …how would you sedate an horse afraid of needles, but who also recognizes sedation in treats? How would you try to rehab a horse with undiagnosed, moderate lameness?

[SummerRose]

Yes, darting is a thing and there are other possible options for physical restraint, though if he is challenging enough to be “fired” by a former vet, any physical restraint would require experts to apply.

But before getting to that route, does he tolerate deworming? If it is your responsibility to get him sedated prior to the vet visit, I’d try oral sedation via a syringe again before trying anything more extreme. (If it isn’t your responsibility, I’d be looking for another horse to ride while giving the pony some time to see if he returns to soundness with rest.) If he doesn’t tolerate deworming, maybe it would be worth the effort to get him used to accepting the syringe by feeding him sweet stuff via syringe once a day for a while until you can get the sedative mixed with sweet stuff into him?

[fivestrideline]

Applesauce works great for this. I use an old ulcergard syringe or wormer syringe. Usually just getting it on their lips at first is enough for them to realize it’s yummy!

[Simkie]

Put a twitch on the horse and just sedate him. Walking on eggshells around this issue is just making it worse.

[Laurierace]

Dormosedan gel

[NancyM]

Acepromazine (atravet) can be given orally, as granules in feed, or dilute the granules to make it liquid , oruse the injectable stuff orally, by syringing it well back onto the tongue and watching for a good swallow. It will take 20 to 30 minutes to take effect, but will take the edge off a very needle shy horse enough to be workable to inject something else. Use more orally than what you would to inject. Your vet can supply this in advance, and suggest suitable dosage. It’s not expensive. If physical restraint (twitch or lipchain isn’t enough or workable).

[JB]

@Strangeways

The plan devised by the vet and I was that I would give pony trazadone to “pre-sedate” him so that the vet could then properly sedate him for the x-rays. I needed to perform some trials to see how much trazadone we needed; the vet gave me the amount. In the first test, he gobbled down the treats I made with the trazadone within, but he didn’t become very sedated. Not surprising, as his owner indicated he was resistant to sedation. For the second trial I increase the dosage per the vet’s advice, but he wouldn’t eat the treats, not even the one without the pills. He figured it out. Starting to believe he’s not necessarily afraid of needles, but of sedation itself. Because he will eat supplements, which don’t sedate, in his breakfast everyday.

I have one who ate traz for about 1.5 meals then was done. After days of syringing it into him, and him getting to the point he really was going to kill me, I discovered he at them dissolved and mixed with his meal. They’re really bitter, but spread out like that in a large enough meal and he didn’t care. So, try that

there’s also oral dormosedan, which is Rx so of course you’d have to get it from the vet, and that discussion would be around how much (which you can definitely use in conjunction with traz), and also the timing, so the vet would know how much of which additional sedative to give.

[JB]

@NancyM

Acepromazine (atravet) can be given orally, as granules in feed, or dilute the granules to make it liquid , oruse the injectable stuff orally, by syringing it well back onto the tongue and watching for a good swallow. It will take 20 to 30 minutes to take effect, but will take the edge off

Not that it can’t work, but in my case, 4 Ace pills didn’t touch my 2 horses. It may be because, while they weren’t worked up at the time, they were in a different and stressful situation, but they were otherwise behaving normally. And, probably worse, Ace is one of those where if it does notch down the horse, but then he gets upset, he’s likely to be more dangerous than if not on ace. It’s just something to consider,

[Weezer]

My vet has given me some sort of sedative gel that you administer orally. I can’t remember what it’s called, but it works very well on my TB boarder who hits the roof as soon as a vet steps on the property.

[JB]

@Weezer

My vet has given me some sort of sedative gel that you administer orally. I can’t remember what it’s called,

Dormosedan gel, almost guaranteed

[IPEsq]

My horses are needle shy. Both absolutely hate IV shots and blood draws. Neither are all that great for IM. Younger horse will get hives on his skin near the injection if any sedative gets on the skin with all of his objections to getting the vein. Older horse has also broken out after blood draws. I think older horse may have a bit of a silicon allergy, and younger horse also clearly has sensitivities. Younger horse takes 2 knowledgeable people to get an IV shot in. You can poke him all day long pretending to prepare for a shot, and he could not care less, though.

Both have little trust for vets, since of course more often than not, the vet is there to inject something. I have to have halters on before they see the vet.

But…they are manageable for IM. They get Adequan, which doesn’t seem to bother either of them. Older one also gets sedation via IM for the farrier for his comfort (because I’m not messing with an IV shot with him). And now he is also getting subcutaneous allergy shots. I can do all of these by myself with some treats. I use smaller gauge needles, and I use different injection sites if they freak out about me approaching the neck that day.

Both just got their vaccines from the vet, and while young horse thought about murder, once the IM shot was in, he was like, oh, that’s it today? Because I’d gotten him used to IM shots (just not that used to the vet!).

I understand pony can’t even be vaccinated, but my long story short is that you can try to do some work yourself (with owner) on IM shots. When another horse of mine was colicking badly, the vet at one point had to basically just stab him in the butt with some drugs as he was throwing himself around in the padded hospital room so he would calm down enough to really get treated, blood drawn, etc. He was fine for shots usually but was out of his mind because of his pain. If you are in desperate times, sometimes you just have to find a big chunk of meat and inject quickly.

Perhaps you can pre-sedate some for the vet this way with some practice from friendly people, not vet smell people. Oral meds have some margin for error if you don’t get it dosed right. My horse gets a mix of 3 drugs for his farrier meds, and he is not a lightweight. I don’t think I’d get the same results from oral dosing, even though I could administer 2 of the 3 that way.

[cutter99]

As someone who has cattle that are darted when needed, it is not something I would use on a horse, unless in an extreme situation- as in life or death.

[MsM]

I would ask the vet about the Dorm gel. Then ask for a heads up when the vet is near. At that point tie the pony to something solid in an accessible area. (I had a horse I had to tie before the vet came or he would spin in his stall and you couldn’t catch him! ) Then, as the vet pulls in, I would add a twitch. (I would suggest trying the twitch alone beforehand to gauge his response. Seems to differ among horses)

[Bonnie2]

First, a vet who is good with a needle is essential. I am lucky my vet is very good. He often gets called to treat the ‘unvaccinable’. When are you going to give him the needle Doc? Already done.

If you’re not that lucky, sedating ahead is good thinking. Trazadone is the current favored medication but I have not personally found it to be useful at all. Dorm gel is not reliable. Ace injectable squirted under the tongue (needle off the syringe) is usually effective. It gets absorbed by the mucus membranes. Much more reliable than ace pills. Ask the vet to recommend a dosage.

Also be practical about how far to take the lameness investigation since treatment will probably be difficult as well. It sounds like the owners are not overly concerned. It may end up being best to just let the pony work within his comfort zone.

[JB]

@Bonnie2

Trazadone is the current favored medication but I have not personally found it to be useful at all. Dorm gel is not reliable.

It’s true that traz doesn’t work well for all horses. But, in some cases, I think the issue is someone expects 1 dose to do its job, but in reality, you might need to start at the higher dose a couple days before. I can tell you this was certainly the case for me. 1 dose I could tell it was doing SOMEthing, but it took maybe 3 doses before it was obvious.

[Strangeways]

Thanks everyone! I should’ve mentioned that we’ve tried dormosedan several times and he fights it. A barn worker was mildly injured trying to administrate it. As “his person,” I managed to get half a tube in him after 20 minutes of fighting. That little bit had no effect. It worked years ago, apparently, but it took two tubes. I imagine it would take more tubes now.

A twitch is an obvious suggestion and I wonder why no one mentioned it including the vets. I wonder if it would work. I remember when a new bodyworker came out and put on a nose chain on and…then she couldn’t touch him. He flinched and danced away. I know a nose chain is different from a twitch, as it doesn’t have the same sedating effect. Something to think about.

I’m guessing people oppose a dart because it would be scary and traumatic?

How would the owner and I practice IM shots? The owner has talked about putting him in a comfortable environment and then doing a fly by injection. But the vet would need to be comfortable with one of us doing an injection. Also a little worried that our injecting him would cause distrust, but I imagine could we could win him back.

Good to hear that the traz may work ground up. What flavors would cover it well? If it’s bitter then I would think sweet would be the way to go. The traz treats I made had molasses and peppermint.

And yes, the owner isn’t especially concerns. She says she can’t feel the lameness even if multiple people can see it. She also says that he runs with his pasture buddy sometimes, so it can’t be that bad. My trainer and I disagree with this approach. She does give me latitude to address it, and I’m grateful for that.

[JB]

@Strangeways

Good to hear that the traz may work ground up. What flavors would cover it well? If it’s bitter then I would think sweet would be the way to go. The traz treats I made had molasses and peppermint.

I started by also adding in very crushed peppermint treats he already loved, but then found he didn’t need them. His normal meal was beet pulp, TC Balancer, and alfalfa pellets, all soaked. I added maybe 2c of TC Sr which I already had for another horse, just to hedge my bets. So it was his normal meal, plus a yummy addition of the Sr in an amount that wasn’t a shock to his system

so I dissolved the traz (it’s REALLY fast), in a 60cc-ish supplement scoop, poured if over the feed that was already soaked in just a bit less water than normal, then actually filled the scoop again to rinse out the residue, and added that on top, then mixed well and fed.

[sascha]

@Strangeways

How would the owner and I practice IM shots?

With a pen. When I worked with dairy cattle, I was the queen of the driveby injection. I’d wade into a bunch of weanlings and deliver ‘bug bites’ to the hamstring. I’d do the same with the dry cows either in the loose housing or the pasture. In the barn, same deal except their butts were more handy and finding their tag number was super easy. Not a cow was ever upset - and there were plenty that needed a LOT of restraint for larger, more uncomfortable injections.

Anyway, the pen thing. My (new at the time - her husband bought the farm from my former boss) boss was terrified of one cow in particular and claimed she could not, flat out, could not get her pm repro shots into her. This was a problem as I was only there in the mornings and took care of am injections but was not getting paid to come back a few days a week to deal with pm repro stuff.

Anyway, we had a discussion and I found out she was injecting the crazy (she was legit dangerous in certain circumstances) cow in her neck. “You’re going to get yourself killed. Inject her in the hamstring.” “I can’t. I don’t want her to kick me.” “She’s less likely to kick if you do a hamstring driveby.” At which point I grabbed my pen, walked past the cow in question and gave her a poke and a moment of holding the poke to simulate the moment of actual injection. Game changer for new boss.

So that’s my suggestion - start with a pen to see if hamstring driveby is a possibility. If it is (no kicking, leaping, flipping of excrement), perfect your technique (you cannot pause between needle insertion and injection - it needs to be smooth) with water and a pillow or piece of foam or something secured against something solid at hamstring height. Practice until your walking pace isn’t affected at all by hitting your target, injecting, and withdrawing. When you’re fully confident, try again with the pen on the horse to make sure you’ll not get a reaction, then return a while later and do the actual injection.

If that’s a fail. Go back to oral and work at it for as many days as it will take to get the horse LOOKING for the apple sauce syringe and practically sucking it out without you having to push the dosing syringe plunger. Then, and only then, are you ready to add meds … and you’d better have a second apple sauce only syringe to follow up. “Oops, that was a mistake, this is the right one!”

[SummerRose]

The dart is the last resort because the animal goes down in an uncontrolled way. The chance of the pony being injured, even possibly fatally, is high. Darted animals may run into fencing, trip and fall at speed, or just fall “wrong” and break something. It’s an option, but not a good one.

And I hadn’t mentioned the twitch because it takes skill to use without resulting in injury to the people near the pony. Much less risk to the pony than darting, but potentially significant risk to the people. I think that if no one directly involved has tried twitching the pony, then probably no one involved has the skill to do it safely.

But I hope that the suggestions you’ve received about the oral route do the trick and you’re able to get to the bottom of the lameness!

[Simkie]

@Strangeways

A twitch is an obvious suggestion and I wonder why no one mentioned it including the vets. I wonder if it would work.

I had a young horse that decided when she was 4 or 5 that she was no longer going to tolerate injections. After dragging us down the aisle on two separate occasions and standing up to wave her feet at us, along with other naughtyness, she was twitched before she ever had the chance to offer negative behavior. We continued that routine for a year.

After that, she was fine.

This self perpetuates. If you allow it to continue, it gets worse. As you’ve seen! Standing for injections is non negotiable. Make it non negotiable.