You are right to point out that I have an interest in the TB industry, and it is the knowledge and perspective I have gained from that insider’s view that prompt me to point out that the majority of your posts about the Thoroughbred industry on this forum are factually incorrect.
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Some times, some people don’t know what they don’t know. 
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I think Snaffle has a point here. Perhaps you are more involved with the owners, breeders and trainers. But it looks as though the bettors are getting sick of loosing money. Although it is called ‘gambling’. Look at the hue and cry that went up after the Breeders Cup. None of the bettors whose posts I’ve seen were happy that at least there was no injury to the horses, especially the winner of the Classic. All they cared about was that they lost money.
And I’m sure everyone will point out that they are right to be concerned about loosing money, but maybe show some concern for the animals that make the sport. I’m not being Pollyanna, I just don’t bet, so I root for every horse 
The few times I do bet, I loose - big. But I’m not trying to make a living off of gambling (only Publishers ClearingHouse and the MegaMillions).
And the point of the developers just waiting to get their hands on those properties, do you dispute that?
Just my out of touch opinion.
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The situation with Modern Games at the Breeders Cup was total idiocy and the CHRB should never have let it happen. It is situations like that which the implementation of HISA, coming next year, should be able to prevent, because then myriad individual state organizations will no longer control racing. Horseracing has taken bettors for granted for far too long, and hopefully that’s about to change too.
If you think that no one is showing concern for the horses “that make the sport” then, yes, you are out of touch. Every time a TB is registered with the Jockey Club, sells at auction, races, or is bred, money is donated to the Thoroughbred Aftercare Alliance.
“The goal of the TAA is to collect a small percentage from every participating entity within the racing industry (stud fees, public auction consignment and purchase, Jockey Club registration, race winnings, racetracks, veterinarians, jockeys) Since inception in 2012, more than $20.7 million has been granted to accredited organizations.”
I don’t know what there is to dispute about developers wanting to get their hands on property. Isn’t that what developers do? The fact that someone wants to buy something doesn’t mean that the current owners have to sell it. Especially if the property is already in use for a productive reason.
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P.S. If someone could define the phrase “under the mud” for me, I would really like to know where that is. Because I have a hard time envisioning an entire industry going there.
In England we have a centuries old tradition of foxhunting. It is, today, under intense pressure from people who find it totally abhorrent, from those who think hunting has no place in the modern world, and lesser concern from people who vaguely think foxhunting probably shouldn’t happen because they saw a lovely documentary about foxes on TV, through to the large majority who think there are more important things to worry about than a few people on horses chasing a fox with dogs… But the overall weight of public opinion is about equally balanced for or against foxhunting.
2004, after 700+ hours of Parliamentary debate, hunting mammals with dogs was made illegal. One might debate the rights and wrongs of a Labour Government allowing this debate precisely at a time when the Blair Government was preparing to go to war in Iraq on totally spurious grounds, but politicians do read public opinion and the bill was passed. Now, to remain legal, most packs of foxhounds follow an artificial trail that is laid to mimic how a fox would act if being hunted.
The anti foxhunting people assumed that the Act would lead to the eradication of all hunting packs. The general public vaguely presumed that fox welfare would improve. However, since 2004, few packs have disbanded and people still follow hounds all winter. Fox numbers have probably declined as now they are gassed, poisoned or trapped to control numbers as they continue, as ever, to be a threat to livestock, poultry and gamebirds.
As a consequence of this continuing trail hunting, the anti hunting people have upped their efforts again. Their belief is that trail hunting is really a disguise for hunting live foxes, even though the overwhelming majority of legal challenges and charges over the past 18 years have failed to prove their case.
Now, 2021, a senior hunting figure was recently found guilty of promoting illegal hunting in a training video. Pretty much at the same time, a campaign was mounted to ban any trail hunting by dogs on land belonging to the National Trust, a charity that preserves historical estates and landscapes and therefore owns a substantial amount of land. The anti-hunting resolution was passed by the membership. Only about 1% of members bothered to vote, and it isn’t binding on the governing body, but it leaves the organisation in a real quandary. On one hand, many of the estates were given to the National Trust on condition that fox hunting continues as in the past. On the other hand, it is a national charity dependent on membership dues.
This is an example of an entire way of life in danger of going “under the mud” as a result of changing public opinion about animals, animal rights and welfare, lack of knowledge in the general public about hunting in particular, a defensive ‘them and us’ attitude that fails to get a positive message about hunting out to a wider public, a very well-funded and dedicated animal rights campaign group… Yes, I can definitely see horse racing losing its social licence to continue.
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You don’t sound thrilled at all. You seem to have a doomsday attitude as far as racing is concerned, and underneath that, a hope that it will fail.
The HISA is a great step forward. We can see what their “ruling arm will look like.” The board and the committees are in place and working as we speak. Did you read the linked articles about HISA?
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IMO, every horse sport in the United States is in danger of coming under attack by PETA and/or other animal rights groups. From their point of view, eventing, reining, and foxhunting are no more defensible than horseracing.
What I don’t understand is why other COTH forums draw fans while posters come to the racing forum to preach about how heartless we are and cry doom.
Rather than disparaging those of us who enjoy the sport, try looking at the big picture. If horseracing loses its social license to continue, other horse sports will follow shortly behind.
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Following along, once one discipline falls, the people who supported it are probably less likely to support remaining disciplines if they got support from others. If you didn’t support my sport, I’m not sure why I should support yours once mine falls.
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I love racing. I always have and I always will. I’ve attended races since being a small child, I take people to the races to encourage them to learn to love racing, I spend too much time watching racing. Nothing beats the atmosphere and excitement of a racecourse. The TB to me is perfection in a horse. It was a close run thing between becoming professionally involved or taking the life path I’ve ended up taking. It is precisely because I do love racing that I am so frustrated and worried by the apparent attitude of racing authorities, trainers, owners towards those serious issues that are under the public gaze or provide serious threat to the sport. I’m still beyond amazed that Medina Spirit, who failed a drug test, has not been disqualified from the Kentucky Derby. Success in a horse race should not be decided by lawyers several months later. It makes the sport very hard to explain to a newcomer.
And I agree that one discipline falls then others follow.
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It is disturbing when people who claim to care about U.S.TB blood (honestly, here’s looking at you Snaffle) go out of their way to slam TB breeding and racing in America.
AS your posts show, you have no inkling, you really don’t understand how and why we could lose the American TB if HISA is not embraced .
I think that your attitude is detrimental and at cross purposes to your claim to that you love TB horses.
I think HISA is much more advanced than you realize. 
Try to be optimistic.
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I have said nothing in this thread that is not factual and even you, yourself agree that changes need to be had in the industry regarding holding people accountable and fairness across the board. Sometimes the truth hurts and my opinion is an honest and open one. Teflon Bob is untouchable and correct me if I am wrong, but many of the smaller folks beneath him are being held to a completely different standard than he and they are upset about it. I do not have time to go back and requote every post within this thread; but there were several posts mentioning this; especially when it appeared despite all of his violations; he is still free to do as he pleases.
You breed foals to sell and/or race every year. Do you not have concern of where your animals end up, who they end up with, and how they are treated and cared for throughout their careers? You have more of a vested interest in ensuring proper welfare and treatment of the animals within this industry than most. Perhaps it would be different if one of yours ended up in the barn of the likes of Jose Navarro and was repeatedly stabbed with lethal doses of drugs for the sake of winning; maybe you would see my argument. I have a problem with an industry that stands by the wayside while the welfare of the animals funding it isn’t taken seriously or is built on a bunch of false promises and hope. This opinion stems much farther than the use of illegal drugs.
So while the media is focused on cheating affecting the betting public; my focus is on the amount of drugs (Illegal and legal) being used on the daily on these animals to make them good enough to run around the oval everyday and WHY this industry cannot get out of its own way in terms of A)policing it and B) protecting the welfare of the animals within their industry. I honestly could care less about the public opinion on the betting public but racing does not survive unless they exist so there’s’ that.
Why you, as a breeder and owner, would have a problem with such an opinion about welfare and enforcing rules that protect it, is beyond me but perhaps points out my entire “argument” with glaring evidence.
I absolutely do not hope it will fail. But the “bad” continues to happen everyday and it is not just on a local rinky dink track level. the “bad” continues to happen on a national-news level on racings’ biggest stages in this country. Whether it be catastrophic breakdowns, unsoundness issues, drug violations, doping horses to win and then ultimately die (Navarro), Overuse of whips, horses going to slaughter etc. The national news market is sitting by the wayside salivating at the next big news break of issues within the industry and the Bob Baffert case gave them everything they needed and it was front and center in every American home at dinner time.
I personally think the entire industry is in a very dangerous and precarious point in it’s history and it’s not something I like to see or want to see. The entire industry in this country cannot be supported by the handful of boutique tracks that hold the traditions and aura of yester-year that keeps fans coming back (Saratoga, Churchill, Keeneland, Belmont)
And if you read my post you would have noted my opinions on HISA. HISA is in its infancy stages and has not taken the reins on overseeing rules, as of yet. I will not provide comment or judgment on the organization until they have been tasked with doing so. The proof will be in the pudding I suppose and time will tell.
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yes they are all in danger, however, none of the other disciplines are appearing on the NBC Evening News in every American’s home for catastrophic breakdowns in the Breeders Cup, Drugging horses in the country’s biggest race, or sending hoards of animals to slaughter every year while turning a blind eye. Also; none of the other disciplines rely on the general public (betting public) for its absolute survival every day.
Horse racing only exists because of the betting public. The Sales and breeding industry are very lucrative but they are all sub-businesses backed by the betting public who keep the tracks alive and the industry wheels greased.
Its not hard to figure out why large corporations own the tracks and businessmen are investing in the tracks and betting apps/etc because betting is a very lucrative and successful business. You lose the betting public and you lose the entire industry.
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I can still love and support the industry, Skydy, while being extremely critical of it’s wrongdoings and shortfalls. Maybe if more people within the industry did so; we would be at much different place than we are now.
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Pointing attention to this article on Paulick today expresses grave reservations on HISA. There are two sides to every coin, yes. But as noted in the article, HISA was never created in the idea that it would be the governing body of horseracing. Not to mention those on the board who may have their own personal vested interests in where and how money and funds get spent.
"But unless the industry as a whole is ready to tackle cheating with drugs head on, the specter of altering the results of racing will never cease.
So this is my pitch to members of the Authority, no matter what side of the fence you are on, no matter how you managed to get your seat on the boards and committees and no matter what your agenda: please do all in your power to make sure that Travis Tygart is given adequate funding to carry on investigations that will yield the type of results those of us who have committed our lives to cleaning up the game can feel that all of our work has been worthwhile.
This message is not directed at USADA. It is not directed at Travis Tygart. It is directed at those individuals who may seek to over-fund their own aspects of the legislation.
Without a robust investigative force that is fully funded this entire initiative will fail and HISA will go the way of all other alphabet soup groups in racing. This is our one last chance to get horse racing right, correct the wrongs on the racetrack and clean up the game enough to present it as a viable sport to fans and horseplayers. We owe them that much."
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To assert that you have said nothing non-factual in this thread sets a very low bar for veracity. (It’s probably also not true but frankly I’m too lazy go back through 700+ posts to check.)
snaffle, as always you tar the entire industry with a very broad brush. In the 20 years I’ve been involved in horseracing there have been massive changes made with regard to the use of race day drugs, out of competition drugs, testing, and veterinary oversight. You are obviously unaware that racehorses compete with fewer allowable drugs than show horses, dressage horses, or saddle horses. Yes, really. What makes us look bad compared to other horse sports is racing’s superior testing–which is done on hundreds of thousands of racehorses a year. No other horse sport comes close.
There’s not much point in your continually ranting about Bob Baffert. As far as I know, no one on the COTH board has the power to do anything about that situation. You might try focusing on the fact that 19 out of the 20 horses who raced in the Derby tested clear. Either that, or try airing your complaints to the KHRC. I’m sure they’d love to hear from you.
I don’t have a problem with people expressing informed opinions about welfare and rule enforcement. But it’s obvious that you’ve ignored what @skydy told you about HISA and overlooked my post about the TAA. If you actually wanted to learn something, those posts might have proven useful to you.
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You can best “love and support the industry” by taking more time to educate yourself about it and less time ranting about issues that people in the industry, and its supporters, are already working to address.
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Yes Snaffle, we all know that HISA is not yet in effect. I read your post and your post makes it clear that if you have done any reading about HISA before now it has been very little.
The fact that you refer to HISA as “the Feds” makes this clear, as well as the fact that you are only now mentioning the opposition to HISA (which began with the lawsuit that was filed soon after our elected representatives took up the legislation and passed it almost a YEAR ago) and the fact that you were unaware of the make up of the committees and the fact that they are working as we speak and are not waiting for the outcome of the legal backlash from people against to HISA, to begin their work.
I don’t for one minute believe that you own racehorses as you have claimed previously on this BB, or that you care about TB breeding or the racing industry.
No one who actually has any knowledge, who has any experience, or who actually cares about TB racing or breeding would complain so incessantly without educating themselves, and they at least would offer a thought more helpful than that racing should “Get a governing body today.”
I do take exception to your unkind and ignorant dig aimed at @LaurieB and I am sure that I am not alone.
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Good news is betting is robust.
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