Meet my emaciated, pathetic foster corn snake babies--*Happy endings #56!

[Lauruffian]

Yep. Some people foster dogs, cats, horses…and then there’s me. Although if you’ve seen my other posts here, it’s not at all surprising.

We brought our remaining seven robust babies in to sell at our regular store today and were shown these pathetic babies (this coloring is called “snow”), badly underweight, lethargic, emaciated. These girls won’t eat and have had only one meal–which literally had to be forced down their throat–since brought to the shop. They are a stark contrast to our active babies, and weighing them revealed they are HALF the weight of my younger hatchlings. At 5g, they match the hatch weight of our tiniest babies who nearly doubled that in 3 weeks.

So, with the store owner’s approval, we brought them home, no charge, to try and get some weight on them. (They will be returned once eating regularly.) Poor girls. Sweet Boy 1.0 is making Lego shelters for them.

Pics:

Weighing in. There is NO WAY you could get any of my babies to be still on the scale like that; I have to put them in something to weigh them. Otherwise they scurry away in a big hurry. It tells you how weak the girls are that I can just put them directly on there like this, and they stay there.

Scrawny neck and prominent spine

Son’s Lego hide

Hoping she turns around soon

They may be “just” snakes, but I know I can do something for these little girls, so I had to bring them back home and give them a more fighting chance.

[Polydor]

aw poor things. Love that you and family are giving them a chance and that your son made a lego hide for them.

So what is your action plan for them?

P.

[Windsor1]

I am glad someone wants to help “just” snakes. They can’t help it that they aren’t furry and cuddly. They do a lot of helpful things for us humans.

[GoForAGallop]

Snakes give me the willies. I almost didn’t click on this link, but had to because I have to admit, it never occurred to me that snakes could be emaciated! (Or rather, I was never given the occasion to think “Hmm, what does a skinny snake look like?”)

Anyway, they still look like snakes and I still don’t want them anywhere near me. :lol:

But they’re gorgeous, and you’re doing a good thing for them!

Question from a non-snake person: how do you know that they’re female? Is it rare to have a whole hatch (litter?) of females?

[hoopoe]

give your sweet son an extra hug from me for his fine houses.

I look forward to hearing the progress report.

[Simkie]

Awwwwww :sadsmile:

How do you go about talking them into eating and wanting to live again? More fence lizards?

[Alex_and_Bodie_s_Mom]

I’m not a snake person either, but I do feel sorry for those poor things – even I can tell something just isn’t right with them. Hoping they come around soon.

[BasqueMom]

More jingles…have never thought about snakes being emaciated. Good luck with them!!!

[RiderWriter]

Well, darn it, up until 6 mo. ago I wouldn’t have known a skinny snake if it, well, bit me, but now I can tell that those poor things aren’t right! I wonder how come they’re that way? Incompetent breeder? At any rate, that is very nice of you to foster them and I hope they make a good recovery.

I never thought of creating a hide out of Legos but that’s an excellent idea. I will have to see if we still have any. Right now Yvonne the Milksnake is using a little cardboard one her daddy made her, but I don’t think he will mind if “Grandma” concocts another one while he’s away at school.

[Lauruffian]

Polydor, originally I was going to leave them alone for a few days to adjust, but when we came home this evening from dinner and the barn, I found them both very actively exploring their enclosures. This level of activity usually indicates HUNGRY, regardless of age, so I thought what the heck…I’d try one of the easiest techniques and see if I get lucky from the get go. So, I took a frozen pinkie mouse, placed it on a spoon, and immersed it in boiling water for about 5 seconds. I then placed mouse and snakeling in a deli cup, covered the cup with a dish towel, turned off the lights so it’s nice and dark, and then left the kitchen. It’s bedtime here, so my two crazy kids aren’t stomping around and the house is quiet. With my two resistant feeders from my own clutch this year, one baby proved to just be shy and ate readily once given a dark, quiet room for feeding. A pet store is anything but quiet, so maybe that, plus being housed with other hatchlings (not at all what breeders recommend, but common in shops) may also have added to their stress. Boiling the pinkie seems to do something to the smell to wake them up; our only nonfeeder last year was a TEENY runt, and we finally got him going on boiled pinkies. It took a few months, but he did eventually transition to normally reheated food. We’ll see…if she doesn’t eat, son’s yearling will gladly power down the pinkie (which is basically a snack for her) so little mousie won’t have died for nothing.

If that doesn’t work, there are a TON of things we can do: continuing the scent issues, some breeders wash with Dawn or Ivory soaps; others roll the mouse in tuna or wet dog food for scent. Simkie, funny you ask–while I was at the grocery, hubby texted me that he’d already set a trap to try and catch a fence lizard again. He hadn’t said much and I hadn’t even mentioned the lizards, but the pathetic in these babes is high and he wants to help them, too. Awww, good man, isn’t he? He hasn’t caught one yet–partially because our dog got in the way a few times, heh–but there’s no rush.

Some breeders do things like force feed mouse tails–again, handy we have so many frozen mice in our freezer. Yes, right next to the ice cream and popsicles, ha ha ha! Regardless, there are a LOT of options and things to try, and if we have to force feed a few times, then we will.

GoForAGallop–male snakes do have a penis…actually, technically it’s a hemipenes, which means it’s a penis with two heads (!!!). They mate side-to-side, so having the two heads means he doesn’t have to ask her to switch to the other side of the bed. But, as a species that spends its days scraping along ground/gravel/rocks, it is NOT a good idea to have the bits out in the open, so it’s tucked up inside. At this age, you can “pop” it out of the cloaca with gentle pressure (and training!), but these two are too delicate for me to even want to. I’m going based on tail shape–males have slightly longer tails because the hemipenes is kept in that area just past the cloaca. They both look to be female, and the worker kept referring to them as such, so I’m okay saying they’re girls for now. If they bulk up a bit, I’ll recheck by trying to pop later.

Thanks Windsor1. I really have developed a love for the species; they are such gentle, useful, beautiful animals, yet so maligned and feared. And they are absolutely fantastic pets, particularly for kids.

[catzndogz22]

Snakes? Blech! (In any case, kudos for rescuing them.)
See the 20 second mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kI4yoXyb1_M

[Lauruffian]

I’m so jazzed! We got BOTH babies to eat tonight! The boiled pinkie + completelydark and quiet room technique worked like a charm for both of them. Yaaaaay!

RiderWriter, as to WHY they didn’t eat…who knows. Every clutch has its picky eater(s), regardless of how competent and careful the breeder is. Now, the question is did the person who sold these babies to the pet store do their part and make sure the babies were good eaters beforehand (breeder standard is 3 consecutive meals without issue), or did s/he stretch the truth about it (“oh yeah, they’re eating”)? Or, maybe the were eating beforehand, but the stressful environment set them back, or a combination of both. Who knows. Last year, our runt took a while to coax into eating, and even then refused any pinkie that wasn’t boiled first for several months. I had one this year that only ate lizard-scented ones initially, and another who, like these girls, was a terribly shy eater who refused to risk eating unless it was dark and quiet.

I’m just so happy to see them with fully bellies. I will put them on a power feed regimen, basically feeding them as soon as they poop out their previous meal, which amounts to about every 4 days or so.

Here is the first girl with her big happy belly

And big happy full belly on baby #2!

Snows are a trip–at this age, their skin is so thin and translucent I can see some of their organs and exactly where their pinkie mouse meal is.

Incidentally, here’s a lovely photo of an adult snow corn snake so you can see where these girls are headed. Believe it or not, they come even whiter–that morph is called a blizzard. Son THOUGHT he wanted a snow until he saw a blizzard. Difference is doubling the price, so, uh, enjoy fostering the snows, kid.

[Polydor]

Yay! Glad they ate. They are going to be gorgeous! Thank you for the info Lauruffian.

P.

[GoForAGallop]

@Lauruffian;7741098

GoForAGallop At this age, you can “pop” it out of the cloaca with gentle pressure (and training!), but these two are too delicate for me to even want to. I’m going based on tail shape–males have slightly longer tails because the hemipenes is kept in that area just past the cloaca. They both look to be female, and the worker kept referring to them as such, so I’m okay saying they’re girls for now. If they bulk up a bit, I’ll recheck by trying to pop later.

Makes sense! I figured they had to be “sexed” the same way ducks/chicks/rabbits do, but didn’t know if there was some easy visual cue with these girls.

[Lauruffian]

Seriously made my day getting them to eat. They are resting happily now, sleeping off that biiiiig meal.

Just call me the snake whisperer…or is it parseltongue?

[mvp]

Thank you for explaining what an emaciated snake looks like. Like most people, I hadn’t thought much about that problem… and surely wouldn’t have known how to recognize a snake in trouble.

So… at three weeks of age, how often should they have eaten? And what does a snake eat as its first meal? Does it have to catch its prey then, just newly hatched and all? Or are snakes born with some fat so as to tide them over until they get “alive enough” to go hunt for themselves?

[StGermain]

Saw a 3’ corn snake out in front of my house while I was weedeating today. He climbed up on the front porch, behind the rocker, past the front door and behind the antique feed bin. The dogs wanted to play, but of course I called them off. Hopefully he’s eating any rodents that want to enjoy my A/C.

StG

[Lauruffian]

[QUOTE=mvp;7741586]
So… at three weeks of age, how often should they have eaten? And what does a snake eat as its first meal? Does it have to catch its prey then, just newly hatched and all? Or are snakes born with some fat so as to tide them over until they get “alive enough” to go hunt for themselves?[/QUOTE]
Ooh, I realize what I typed in my OP is a bit misleading–my babies aren’t 3 weeks old, but will be exactly a month in two days. But, clarifying my “three weeks” comment will answer your other questions. When hatched, babies have a nice fully belly thanks to the remnant of their egg yolk. They typically aren’t ready to eat and don’t have much appetite until that is fully absorbed. Breeder standard is to wait until their postnatal shed, at around age 10 days, to feed. By then the babes often have dropped a gram or so in weight. After the first feed, I feed anything from every 4-5 days to a maximum of once a week. All of my babies have had three feeds at this point at are putting on weight well. My 5g baby is 9g now, impressive growth compared to her 7g siblings that are now 10g.

I have a freezer FULL of frozen mice (heh heh heh)–it’s cheaper to buy 100 at a time online ($0.30 each) than 6 at a time at Petco ($2.00 each), and since we aim to breed again next year, have about 50 extra frozen pinkies in the freezer is no biggie. That’s one reason why it’s no big deal to take these two in–I have plenty of food to offer them.

As far as what they typically eat first meal, it’s more typical that a corn snakeling will come across small frogs and lizards than newborn rodents. In fact, when some babies don’t eat–like my stubborn, irritable “Crackle” this year–one recommendation is to rub a pinkie mouse on a lizard to get the more appealing scent. His first meal was actually a hatchling blue belly lizard (AKA Western fence lizard) I caught in the backyard that I put in with him as a lark. His second meal was a pinkie I had rubbed alllllll over an adult fence lizard I’d caught (and later released)…incidentally, fence lizards hiss! Who knew. Annnnd, Crackle’s third meal was a pinkie mouse I offered him in the lizard’s emptied critter keeper. So, progress. The pet store owner is aware and has a multitude of lizards to pinkie-scent with should that be an issue in the future. He’s not at all a shy eater; our shy eater is our short term keeper. Crackle is just picky. And cranky.

St. Germain, how I wish I could see corn snakes in the wild here! We do have their rat snake family cousins, the gopher snake. These guys get quite a bit larger than corns, with a maximum length of 7 feet (compared to a corn’s 5 feet), but their prey is also larger so it makes sense.

[StGermain]

Lauruffian - Was the shop owner neglectful of these babies, in your opinion? It sounds like all they needed was food and quiet.

StG

[Calvincrowe]

Once again, despite my eeshy-ness over snakes, I opened your thread Lauruffian because I love you, your boys, and now…your amazing snake charmer mojo! You always educate your reader as well. Once a teacher, always a teacher! So glad you are helping those poor skinny babies. They are pretty cute…from a distance!