Mellow Yearling Growing into Anxious hot Adult

[Bloopie]

I’m curious if anyone else has gone through this with a young horse and what you did, if anything.

I’ve known my horse since he was a foal and purchased him the day he turned 1. He’s 4 now. He’s still boarded at the barn where he was born and he’s working with the same trainer who subscribes to more of a Warwick Schiller approach and whose career is largely based on training/backing young horses. He was gelded when he was weaned around 5-6 months.

He was really pretty mellow as a yearling, especially compared to other yearlings. He was kind of care free and lackadaisical but he still had yearling moments. However, he’s kind of regressed as a 4 year old; he’s spookier and more anxious/fidgety and “hot” and the other day he was mounting a gelding in the field for the first time that anyone has ever seen.

I’m sorry for some of the anthropomorphic language, just the best way I can explain it, but basically he has had a few “come to Jesus” moments with the trainer (he’s usually better behaved for them vs myself because they work with him more consistently) regarding cross ties and him trying to bully his way around among other things. Like, he suddenly can’t stand still remotely enough and he winds up breaking cross ties. Or he just pushes into someone or how he’s started trying to walk in front of me with his attention 90% elsewhere. Vs as a yearling he was much more mindful of where he was compared to his handler and was quite relaxed walking around the farm and stayed at your shoulder. None of this sounds serious, but the fact he REALLY struggles with focusing as a 4yo when he could actually focus for a good 15-30 minutes as a yearling, and could DEFINITELY focus when being led, has triggered some warning flags.

I have zero idea why this is happening, especially the spookiness, distractedness and him being “hot” mentally. I mentioned the regression to his trainer today and they agreed but we didn’t have a chance to discuss troubleshooting, just that we were seeing the same change in behavior.

[endlessclimb]

This is pretty normal for 4-5 year olds. Youngsters think you’re god. Then there’s a couple years where they think you’re interfering with their agenda. Keep up the CTJ when warranted and keep up the wet saddle blankets and most of them outgrow it.

They’re fit, balanced, and think they know it all.

[Lunabear1988]

Agreed, lol.

[JB]

I’ll be a bit contrary here and say this sounds like too much of a swing, especially given his very stable life (not changing barns or trainers or schedules every 6 months). And most geldings don’t suddenly start mounting other horses. I agree these “teenage boy” years can make them challenge and question status quo, but their general temperament doesn’t usually change like this

It would be worth just checking his testosterone level too, in case there’s that rare 3rd testicle up there or something.

Do you live where there are ticks? I might rule out Lyme disease. It can do very weird things to horses’ behavior

What breed/breeding? Age 4-6 is usually when PSSM starts showing up, and if his muscle are sore, he can be acting out

[Bloopie]

He had some tick bites last year but none of the obvious Lyme symptoms? It’s also not super common where I live and I don’t think my area had any reported cases last year - it’s more in the eastern part of the state.

He’s an Arab Friesian and has thus far channeled the Friesian side of his heritage until recently, but his new behavior, although spooky and excitable, isn’t quite like you see with hot Arabs (the barn has those too).

I have had a couple of people ask if he was gelded because of his recent behavior so checking his testosterone may be worthwhile.

[Bloopie]

Oh I dearly hope that’s the case. I’m just wary because I’ve worked with 4-5 year olds and ALL of them are better behaved than him right now, with a few exceptions. Yet he outshone all of them as a yearling, both in his attention span, natural curiosity, and calm demeanor. Dude never flinched the first time he was hosed down.

[luvmyhackney]

Is he is a herd with horses that he can play with and get his energy out or a bunch of older quiet geldings? Arab/Friesian is a busy minded horse that needs very clear rules and leadership or they get anxious and hot messes.

Horses do go through a phase (many not all) where they push boundaries and try to establish their place in the world as they get stronger and more mature. I’d do a vet workup for bloodwork, ulcers, basic check over just to check the box, then just keep the boundaries and know it does get better around 6 y/o.

[GraceLikeRain]

What’s his environment like? Ulcers used to be a very “only ribby dull coated hard keepers” mindset but it’s more likely than not a horse will get them at some point. Changes to the herd, diet, amount and type of forage, length of stalling, etc can all set them off. Many horse people still are catching up and are quick to roll their eyes or poke a horse in the side and say they’d react if they had ulcers. I’ve now lost count of people who went down a rabbit hole chasing behavior only to find their glossy coated easy keeper had a very very angry stomach.

[RedHorses]

I’m wondering why the comparison to his yearling behaviour. What was he like as a three year old? When did things start to change?

[4horses]

If he was just acting spooky, I would say ulcers. Ulcers can definitely get a horse more anxious and spooky. But mounting other geldings sounds more play related.

My 2.5 year old was very quiet for the first year. He was lovely. Ponied off his mother, would stand tied, and never put a foot wrong. Then the hormones hit and even gelding made no difference in his behavior. He is out with my boss mares. He is constantly aggravating the hell out of them. Not aggressive in any way but he wants to play. He will bite them, rear up on them, shoulder bump them, play bitey face, etc. When they go to discipline him he shoots off so they can’t land a kick. Then he is right back at it. All day long.

The herd leader he tends to leave alone as she is less tolerant. The 2nd in command allows him to get away with things and he is pretty much all over her. But since most of it is play (and she doesn’t seem bothered by his rambunctious behavior), I leave them be.

I don’t turn him out with his mother because she absolutely did not and will not discipline him. I don’t pony him anymore because he is exceedingly difficult to handle (if he is within reaching distance of another horse). His brain can function if he is a horse length away from another horse, but if he is next to another horse all bets are off. I tried ponying him off the boss mare and that didn’t go well as he wanted to play and she was ready to kick him, then he plants his feet and refuses to walk, etc. But his first rides under saddle went well and he is fine if you can keep him focused on you.

Horses mature at different rates. I think mares are born serious and mature, whereas geldings have an adolescent boy brain and take extra time. Figure out how to incorporate that play drive as that will make him enjoy working with you.

I would check vitamin E, maybe treat for ulcers? Tick borne illness is good to rule out, otherwise I would assume it is a phase. Some of the geldings I have ridden can be very very difficult- give an inch and they take a mile- they constantly try to out think and out maneuver you. Some need a very firm hand. I’ve met some that I felt would respond better to a man, as they clearly required a stronger correction then I felt comfortable giving.

I had one gelding who was great if you did what he wanted to do. Ask him to go the long way home or do something he disagreed with and he would drag you into the trees and try and rear you off under a tree limb. Very deliberately. I felt locked in a power struggle with him and his owner sent him to auction just to get him sold. He was a beautiful horse but that attitude was something else. You could just see him thinking “well, that didn’t work… what else can I try?” I knew I could get him through the behavioral issues but then he would be my horse forevermore and I didn’t like him that much. I also knew he would test anyone else who rode him, so even if he was good for me, doesn’t mean he would be good for anyone else.

I have no idea what happened to him to make him feel the need to scrape the rider in the trees… but he came to me with that problem.

Be firm without being abusive. Do make sure some of his anxiety isn’t from being corrected too aggressively? As a pushy horse needs correction but it must be fair and if the horse feels he was unfairly attacked by the trainer that can cause anxiety especially in a sensitive breed like an Arabian cross.

Your horse might benefit from a different trainer. It could be a personality mismatch between the horse and the trainer. Or it could be this horse just needs more time and experience, more turnout, more exercise.

[Kyrabee]

I would get blood pulled for testosterone just to rule that out. My friend bought a young horse that was gelded but aha…he had a retained testicle that they didn’t bother to go get…or tell her about when she bought him😡. His behavior turned as a 3 yo.

Have you tried just treating for ulcers and see if it changes anything? You could do the Nexium (big thread on that) to keep it cheap.

My mare got all reactive, nervous and tense as a 5 & 6yo. She was likewise extremely distractable. I had never been around a horse that seemingly needed to know everything that was going on in a five mile radius. It did end up being a pain issue due to bit fit and her weird mouth conformation. I haven’t started a whole lot of youngsters but most have maintained their mellow dispositions except for this last one and the behavior change was a pain response.

Good luck, you just have to keep sleuthing. With a radical change like that, I would bet something is off. The problem is trying to figure it out.

[CBoylen]

He’s still channeling the friesian from my experience with them. They can be kind and lovely, but also tend towards hot and pushy. I’d be shocked meeting a mellow Arab/friesian.
What’s his workload?

[CanteringCarrot]

My young horse (4 this year) has been in a phase of sorts that’s similar, but less dramatic. I changed his diet a bit and wanted to test a few things but my vet was very reluctant based on him being sound and how good he looked. So I’ll have to go further out (driving distance wise) if I want to proceed with anything.

For mine, I think it’s mostly age and winter. Being in a closed barn more (at night) and being in the indoor arena a lot. He was very good this past weekend when we had warmer weather and I was able trail ride.

Does weather affect him at all? Are you keeping his work varied? Is his diet appropriate?

I do think ulcers, Lyme, and a testosterone test are all good suggestions. Some horses are also just more difficult than others at certain developmental stages, but I rather know if it’s a health issue first so that I’m not stuck peddling a bike uphill to nowhere, so to speak.

Mine isn’t the yearling he once was, but he’s still kept a lot of the same demeanor even though he’s a bit more dramatic at times. He hasn’t become aggressive or dominant. He may “test” but not anything that surprises me too much for his age.

[sascha]

My checklist would read:

1. Check hormones AND treat for ulcers AND check for as many neuro and metabolic issues as is reasonable for your area and the horse’s breed.

2. Stop taking any crap from this horse. Meet EVERY violation of your personal space with a LARGE reaction. Once the horse has been shown that the behaviour was absolutely 100% not ok with you, make sure to go back to normal. You must be able to switch yourself on and off like a light switch.

No matter what results you get from any testing/treatment you do, carry on with #2 with the caveat that if the horse is unfit to work, stop working and just go back to grooming or whatever you can, but DO NOT GIVE UP CORRECTING THE BEHAVIOUR.

And all that said, when you let a horse know it’s not allowed to “yell” at you, you need to be very observant and develop a language so that you can tell when something is amiss. Do not force the horse to shut down and internalize all their problems - keep your senses on high alert and remember that some horses are very subtle, others, like my current one, can get a 9-yo boy to summon me from the other end of the property because “She seems angry.” “Uhoh, angry face = pain. On my way!”

[bingbingbing]

@4horses

Your horse might benefit from a different trainer.

I agree!

OP, thank you for coming here for help. Your concern is real.

I have raised babies for 25 years. Warmbloods and TB’s, not the breeds your horse is crossed with. And while maybe a few I have raised have shown some arrogance as they have gotten older, their behavior did not change drastically. IMO, as they mature, horses should not regress like your horse has. I wonder if he is either being pushed/picked at/reprimanded too much and/or he has a physical issue. Also, I have seen horses at the bottom of the pecking order in turn out try to dominate people, I wonder if he is doing the opposite with the mounting in turn out.

Something for your horse needs to change.

[Warmblood1]

I routinely see this with colts left intact. You really see how a horse is going to act intact around 4. But I also have experienced this with horses without their boys attached. I think of it as coming out of the starry eyed, compliant, and slightly bewildered baby horse stage into the angsty teenaged stage. They are fitter, have abundant energy and are braver socially and hence, more likely to challenge social hierarchy (such as the mounting) as well as challenging the handler more. I don’t disagree with running some veterinary diagnostics (such as making sure the horse was fully castrated) but also just want to say, this may be a totally normal part of the horse’s experience towards maturity. Stay on your toes, correct any and all bad behavior, do not let things slip, be confident and a respectable leader for your horse and if you maybe aren’t that, leave things for your trainer. It sounds as though this horse is better with your trainer which makes me think this is behavioral versus medical but just speculating there. Some horses really need to be in a constant program and it also may be worth evaluating the horse’s diet and increasing magnesium.

ETA: also, because it’s a horse with a pulse, I’d investigate ulcers, especially when there is an increase in spookiness.

[Demerara_Stables]

@sascha

Stop taking any crap from this horse. Meet EVERY violation of your personal space with a LARGE reaction. Once the horse has been shown that the behaviour was absolutely 100% not ok with you, make sure to go back to normal. You must be able to switch yourself on and off like a light switch.

This. My 3yo (4 in May) has gotten pushy with the horses in the herd and once or twice with me in the past month or so. She’s bored because she hasn’t been working, so I know the reason, but I do. not. let it go. I was cleaning her stall last night and touched her with my hand to ask her to step over (something she knows very well) and she leaned into me instead. She got a yell and a couple whacks on her butt with my open hand, just for leaning into me. She’s big and going to get bigger, so moving away from pressure and not using her size to intimidate people is non negotiable. After she got startled and moved away, I went and gave her face rubs and told her she was good. You can’t hold a grudge when you’re discipling. As @sascha says, you have to turn it off, or they get resentful.

Has his lifestyle changed? You mention the difference since he was a yearling, and lots of barns “bring them in” when they start being ridden and either all but eliminate their turnout or reduce it by half (no longer out 24/7, now in at night or during the day). You mention he is in pasture with other horses now - for how long each day? I couldn’t imagine my 3yo having to be in a stall for any length of time - she has way too much energy, she’d be a basket case.