#metoo and Jimmy Williams

[Current_Options]

@SnicklefritzG

@Current_Options Basic thing is, COTH doesn’t want legal trouble from naming that person.

Yeah, I know…being so afraid of legal issues like this is a huge part of why this persists! So then they are so scared they censor important info. Maybe there are better/other places to disseminate this info if COTH doesn’t want to really get involved.

There is a huge difference in “hey, don’t let your daughter work for XYZ” and “he is a criminal”. Of course we know the difference.

It’s ok to tell your story, there doesn’t need to be a :“legal inquiry” to be made aware of issues. It’s up to us who to believe. Part of being a smart person is knowing who to stay away from, and don’t put these people on any kind of throne.

[supernatural]

Bottom line. I always wish for the best for people. I’ve certainly never witnessed abuse from Jimmie Williams. I have seen things that have not been disclosed by some of the accusers of Jimmy Williams. .

The truth will prevail. No abuse allegations till someone is dead???

[betonbill]

Not going back to re-read all of the articles, but hasn’t USET created a way that perpetrators can be reported–living or dead? Now, whether they will actually go ahead and do anything about this is another thing, but at least there is an avenue to report abuse.

Being in California during the heyday of Flintridge, I can see why a lot of the girls were afraid to say something to anybody. To do so would have been throwing away their showing aspirations, their friends, their posh membership in an equestrian institution.

As far as I’m concerned, anybody who was reported on at least several occasions as shoving a little girl’s head down to his crotch deserves all the criticism in the world–as well as having his entire career destroyed.

[Peggy]

This piece, which happens to be about the playwright Israel Horovitz, attempts to explain why #metoo happened in 2017 and not earlier. In this case women’s accounts had been published in 1993, but dismissed by the theater company. I was really struck by this when I originally heard it on the radio, ironically while driving to the barn, that I just went searching for it.
https://www.npr.org/2018/02/07/583910310/why-metoo-happened-in-2017

[supernatural]

So…it blows my mind. This has been going one for 40 plus years regardless of what coast you are living. I give up.

I dont know Jimmy but it’s not OK to say the things say sand and intimated in the Chronicle Article without hard evidence and lawful conviction or at the very least charges being placed. Sorry. You cannot pick and choose who is guilty off of hearsay

[BLBGP]

@supernatural

Bottom line. I always wish for the best for people. I’ve certainly never witnessed abuse from Jimmie Williams. I have seen things that have not been disclosed by some of the accusers of Jimmy Williams. .

The truth will prevail. No abuse allegations till someone is dead???

In posts 173 and 183 you clearly stated you didn’t know him, so how would you have had the chance to witness him abuse someone?

And why are you vaguely accusing someone of abuse here when you obviously believe in coming out with things while people are still alive to defend themselves? You seem so angry that no one spoke out about Jimmy before, to the point where you’re basically calling them liars. Yet at the same time you’re hinting about abuse that you’re not speaking out about. A bit hypocritical?

[Peggy]

@BLBGP

In posts 173 and 183 you clearly stated you didn’t know him, so how would you have had the chance to witness him abuse someone?

And why are you vaguely accusing someone of abuse here when you obviously believe in coming out with things while people are still alive to defend themselves? You seem so angry that no one spoke out about Jimmy before, to the point where you’re basically calling them liars. Yet at the same time you’re hinting about abuse that you’re not speaking out about. A bit hypocritical?

Did some of the posts vanish into the ether?. BLBBP’s post I quoted is currently 182 and it references a post 183. Also I got an error message when I clicked on the link to the new posts in this thread. Those two things make me think that something, or several somethings, disappeared.

[ladyj79]

@Peggy

Did some of the posts vanish into the ether?. BLBBP’s post I quoted is currently 182 and it references a post 183. Also I got an error message when I clicked on the link to the new posts in this thread. Those two things make me think that something, or several somethings, disappeared.

Yes they did.

if you read through the Facebook thread there’s a…person who discounts the victims because Anne Kursinski is a meanie. My guess is it’s this same person here.

[RugBug]

@ladyj79

Yes they did.

if you read through the Facebook thread there’s a…person who discounts the victims because Anne Kursinski is a meanie. My guess is it’s this same person here.

I figured the person being referenced was Anne. She has a reputation for being very tough, which some would call abusive. I did read a few of her comments in the article and thought of the things I’ve heard about her and how they seemed to contradict. The videos I’ve seen of her do not put her in the abusive category for me, although I understand I have only seen video and I also prefer a tough, exacting trainer.

The real thing, though, pointing out that AK is a meanie is just “what aboutism.” Her being a meanie does nothing to negate what JW did to her and others

[Oliver4Ever]

@Salty

I’m sorry, but anyone who uses the words “lib tard,” “gay tard” or even “Trump tard,” has lost any slight credibility that they may previously have had. This is an important topic so be civil.

[Oliver4Ever]

Yep, wasn’t agreeing with her posts before than, but then that offensive adjective was disgusting

[vxf111]

A bunch of posts went poof

AK can be really abrasive. That’s who she is and she doesn’t sugar coat it

No amount of being abrasive justifies being abused. Nor does being abrasive make someone not credible

Her (perceived or real) “personality flaws” have nothing to do with whether she is truthfully disclosing what happened to her

[MsM]

I believe that most of the younger posters don’t fully understand what reporting a “famous” abuser could be like years ago.
I had a friend who was sexually harassed in the1980s. Her abuser was a well known (team sport) coach in the area.
When her accusations became known, she was living a nightmare. She and her family were accused of lying, blackmail, jealousy, and more. She was told that the unwanted kissing and fondling were “nothing” and since she wasn’t raped she should just"get over it".
Eventually there was some sort of plea agreement so she didn’t testify and he didn’t have a sexual offense on his record. The family moved away shortly after as there was plenty of resentment over"losing a good coach" over “just a few kisses”
I lost track of her,but last I knew she was sorry she said anything because of the fallout for her and her family. And he got another coaching job because his teams won.

[Tigoli]

@vxf111

A bunch of posts went poof

AK can be really abrasive. That’s who she is and she doesn’t sugar coat it

No amount of being abrasive justifies being abused. Nor does being abrasive make someone not credible

Her (perceived or real) “personality flaws” have nothing to do with whether she is truthfully disclosing what happened to her

Agreed.

Someone could be an absolute terror (not that I’d classify AK as even remotely that) and it still would not excuse any abuse done to them by another individual.

[findeight]

SH also has a reputation for being blunt and IIRC has a temper, to put it very mildly. Watched both teach and, IMHO, crossing the line into bullying. Kind of interesting they both shared the same mentor as teens and besides the hushed up behavior, JW could be a bully to his young clients and tough on a horse, personally saw that too.

Pretty sure this COTH article was researched over some time and those now 60ish, successful career women were asked the question and answered it agreeing to be quoted. Think the decision to quietly remove JWs name from the awards by USEF might have green lighted publishing it. They didn’t cry “woe is me I’m a victim”.

And, again the societal norm was it was the victims fault or they were hysterical, temperamental teen females. I guess you had to be there to understand why the silence. Add the prestige and social/ business status of the very exclusive carefully vetted and very expensive Flintridge CC stamp of approval wasnt the kind of environment for unpopular, uncomfortable truth telling.

These attitudes continued well into the late 80s and even 90s, well past any statute of limitations. JW died in 93. AK was the first to openly discuss it, far as I know, and that wasn’t until about the last 10-15 years. And was just as openly disrespected for being so open with the unpopular, uncomfortable truth telling. But she cracked open a door and made it OK to come forward. And heal because somebody does care.

[joliemom_again]

@supernatural

I read it all. All of it. Abuse goes both ways. Women can be abused by other women or pressure just as easily. . Things happened years and years ago. I’m always so surprised by people who play the victim. Sometimes they are. Sometimes they are not.

Never, ever would I wait till someone is dead before ., woe is me… I’m a victim. Y’all go on, Pretty sure out Chronicle is now [liberal] to the max owned. At least one of the major victims??? Cry me a river. I’m appalled. Don’t wait till someone does and comes out… Especially… well… I’ll leave that right there…

No class. Flame suit on

Dorothy Sandusky, is that you?

[Laurierace]

@supernatural

I read it all. All of it. Abuse goes both ways. Women can be abused by other women or pressure just as easily. . Things happened years and years ago. I’m always so surprised by people who play the victim. Sometimes they are. Sometimes they are not.

Never, ever would I wait till someone is dead before ., woe is me… I’m a victim. Y’all go on, Pretty sure out Chronicle is now LibTard to the max owned. At least one of the major victims??? Cry me a river. I’m appalled. Don’t wait till someone does and comes out… Especially… well… I’ll leave that right there…

No class. Flame suit on

You nailed the no class part. What a disgusting waste of a human being.

[Moderator_1]

We removed some inappropriate language and references to it.

[fair_judy]

I am grateful that the Mods allowed my post to stand here. Reading some of the questions here …I’ll tell you exactly why I never disclosed that Ward assaulted me. I was begged not to say anything. I was told horses would have manes and tails cut if not outright killed. I was told that barns could burn. I was told that there was a distinct possibility that my family, in particular my Dad would be harmed. I was in shock, I was terrified, I had just been thrown over a hay bale, my pants ripped down around my knees. I had zero control, and THAT LOSS OF CONTROL floored me. I pushed it down. I buried it. I was prepared when another known and afterwards convicted molester ( Ken Krauss for anyone not knowing this… worked at Thunderheads and announced at WEF for ages with the full knowledge of his history) came after me down at the lower barn. I self abused, became drug addicted, and had anger issues. I was a protected happy kid whose vocabulary had no definition for what had happened. I have done things I am ashamed of… and I have to own them all. So for any of you who are questioning the victims, their parents, ANYONE but the abuser, I will tell you this. My father would have KILLED my attacker. We know that his history made the prediction of horses being harmed abundantly true. THAT ADVICE , AT THAT TIME, WAS THE BEST ADVICE I COULD HAVE GOTTEN. I kept my mouth shut… because people celebrated his life when Ward died. People said, OH he did so many other great things. He has a son, to whom this man was a beloved father. Yes, I kept my mouth shut, even after over 30 years had passed before I had a conversation about that early morning when a young girl at Branchville , a girl whose only crime was being there in the wee hours to braid, a girl who had absolutely no concept of that sort of violence…was never to be a girl again. And, since I believe that the light has to shine on all of this, I give my real name…,I do not hide any longer. I am Sarah Hochschwender and I am able to embrace myself in the revelation of this as I have never been able to before. Today I stand in the light.

[poltroon]

It’s easy to say whatever about someone when they are deceased .

I don’t think it is easy at all.

And fair judy, thank you for sharing that story. I’m so sorry you had it to share. I am with you that in that time and place, it probably was the best advice you could have gotten.