So this will put me back in the firing line, but I don’t agree with your ‘summary.’ Judy clearly doesn’t condone what JW and his ilk did/are doing… Where she struggles is in understanding that even if teenagers pursue some, the adults in the situation are responsible for being adults. Instead of seeing Judy’s comments as this OR that…why not acknowledge her issue and then help her understand the error in her thinking. The pile on and labeling her as horrible does nothing to educate her…which isn’t our job, but all the pile on is doing is shutting her down.
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I actually don’t think Judy thinks of their behaviour as rape and pedophilia, merely inappropriate.
Also and I’ll be on the firing line with this, I believe that once people of a certain age have held these kinds of views for their whole lives, they will not change, and it’s best to ignore them because they’ll die soon enough anyway. This is not to say all old people are like Judy, but that old people like Judy are particularly resistant to change.
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Unfortunate… but I don’t disagree. I’ve stopped trying to change the opinions of those set in their ways. Much less aggravation on my part to state my opinion, give them the opportunity to listen and move on with my day. My hope is that while I may not change their opinion, it’s possible someone else reads what I said and takes it to heart.
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And that is the reason I think it’s perfectly acceptable to tell people their words are repugnant, because someone else MIGHT change, or at least be heartened that those “ideas” aren’t the norm and aren’t readily accepted.
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Absolutely! Much better than giving an implied agreement with their remarks by staying silent.
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She has the right to remain silent, she just lacks the ability.
I don’t think she is condoning JW and the like, not at all. But damn skippy I’m all good with holding her accountable for her words. If she can sit there and call kids Junior Whores, I am going to cheer anyone who says you’re acting like a donkey, Judy, and you’re 100% responsible for your words. She’s that crazy lady everyone winks about and rolls their eyes at her antics, but they are harmful and awful, those antics, and at this point, I’m personally fine with the pile on. Let her feel sorry for herself, like that woman in GA who assaulted a pregnant female soldier in GA- old lady got arrested, just as she should have. She’s been running that head forever, oh well!
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Edited to add: It is in reference to society as a whole, not anyone in particular.
And I find the idea of ‘stating my opinion, let them listen and moving on’ to be at the core of our inability to actually discuss things with people in a civilized fashion. People are no longer interested in really discussing something. They are interested in saying what’s on their mind and F@#$ anyone that disagrees. It’s the echo chamber mindset…and it’s getting us nowhere. For better or worse we’ve become a digital society that has conversations about sensitive topics without ever meeting someone. If we could learn to really listen, we could actually be influential. Instead, we just like to hear ourselves speak and to feel good about ourselves for having the morally superior opinion.
We can hold people accountable for their words, thoughts, and beliefs without writing them off.
From Judy’s comments that I read on the COTH article, which was not all because I can’t stomach her ignorance, this isn’t an equivalent situation…at all. That you think it is worries me.
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As an abuse survivor, I am not personally crowing about holding the morally superior opinion. When I read Judy’s comments, the ugly ones, my chest hurt, my mouth dried, I was barely breathing. IOW, the blender of bad things she was saying elicited a very physical reaction in me. I am not saying everyone who was abused would feel or react the same way- I can’t know that, I’m only me.
I think when it’s a reallllly emotional topic, it’s reasonable to cut both sides - yes, Judy’s side, too, as well as the angry reactions to her and those who speak up in the manner that she did- some emotional response slack and maybe not label them as just wanting to hear themselves speak and act all superior and foshnizzle.
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Agreed. There are events that color each person’s response to every situation we encounter. I am an abuse survivor as well and had a different reaction. Neither is right or wrong. If we could cut people slack across the board until the prove to be utter a$$hats, it would be better.
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To anyone who wonders why victims often don’t speak up about abuse, maybe the possibility of being referred to as a junior whore who was chasing after the abuser is a deterrent to speaking up, do you think?
With regard to the pile on poor Judy, it looks like people are saying her statements are abhorrent more than saying she herself is awful. Not really personal attacks.
One of her friends stepped in to defend her by saying at least she didn’t delete her comments and back away. As Tmares pointed out, reading those horrid comments is painful to an abuse survivor. I wish she would delete them.
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yes, we’re all people and we all react/respond differently in facing situations. One person’s hot horse is another’s sleepy steve 
and we’ll all have differing slack-cutting locations.
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Yes…the person that stepped in to ‘defend’ her I am pretty sure was the same person that on this thread relayed her own story of abuse (fair judy). I could have those comments out of order in my head, though. It’s what made me think twice…
I love your response, not because of your viceral reaction or that you are a survivor, but because it’s the type of response that says ‘here is why your thought process is wrong and hurtful’ without shutting someone down by piling on. THIS is the type of response that makes someone ponder their errors in thinking.
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I conceptually appreciate the difference.
Yet I don’t know what to think about someone who, more or less unprovoked, calls a child a prostitute. Aren’t there some things that are just too far below the belt? Or perhaps folks can think ugly thoughts privately, but don’t they feel some hesitation to put those in public and in writing? Or do they feel sure they will not be held to account?
Those comments being so extreme and so public, I believe are revealing of character. I was surprised by the vitriol.
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That’s not what Judy said. She was describing how back in the day, many young girls thought it was cool to go after adult male trainers, especially the ones that were well known. The groupie mentality was as strong then as it is today.
Some men take advantage of the opportunity. Thankfully, others would not.
Judy also comments on the current style of un-dress by some girls. I’m also guilty of making comments, as are some of my friends. I confess I’ve used the word “hooker” to describe the style, because that’s what it looks like! But I and my friends have never equated their objectionable choice of clothes as a reason they would be assaulted. And I don’t think Judy did either. Rather, it’s an expressed disappointment that these girls are using poor judgement, and that they lack the maturity to understand the message they’re sending out.
Judy apologized when asked to do so. What more do you want from her ?
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That is what she said, literally those were the words she used, junior whores and screwing for the blue.
I think it’s wonderful that she apologized. I absolutely hope she has reevaluated her previous position and had a change of heart, rather than merely apologizing because people told her to–which is not my style. I don’t think forced apologies mean anything, but I would love to believe hers is the product of real change.
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But to stress again, I don’t think there’s a positive way to spin calling child victims of sexual assault junior whores or suggesting they wanted to be molested by an old man for years to win ribbons.
probably can’t blame people for responding negatively to those word choices.
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Judy is directly quoted on prior pages. Do not state she didn’t say things she said. They are here on this thread, copied and pasted from FB. They are also still on FB. Go read her words, then focus- again- on some of us victiming wrong. My eyes just can’t roll much harder.
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The way she was quoted here doesn’t visually/clearly indicate direct quotes. I only know what is a direct quote because I went on FB. What’s been cut and pasted here is confusing
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People understand things differently. Just like we all react differently to things, we all “hear” things differently. It’s why communication is so damn difficult when it seems like it should be simple. Look at our current political arena. Someone says one sentence and it is taken it two completely different ways by the major parties. (I’m sure the reality is more than two ways, but let’s keep it simple). I agree with Mardi’s interpretation of Judys words. It’s how I read them as well. Mardi is not saying that Judy didn’t make the comments she made, but that they are being misinterpreted. Heck, even Judy’s apology is subject to interpretation.
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i’m sorry- people said they could not find her words so I brought them here. I also linked directly to the thread. If readers can’t bother to go read FB, or what have you, that’s on them.
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