Michael Barisone/Lauren Kanarek Civil Suit

I am going to avoid going deep down the mastectomy rabbit hole today because…

That’s some crazy making stuff . :woman_facepalming:

Here’s the thing, in my opinion, about this whole claim with respect to “mutilation.”

WHAT is @Seeker1 actually talking about? Is it the fact that LK now has scars from surgery/ies on her chest and abdomen? The fact that her breasts are a little uneven? Is it that Lauren has a large scar on one breast where a sizable portion of tissue was removed as part of the surgery, and cleaning up the area after the implant ruptured?

I’m guessing she won’t give a specific, factual answer… so I am just laying out the possibilities of what this “mutilation” claim she keeps referencing might involve. In the past, I do SPECIFICALLY remember Lauren saying - either in an interview or during questioning at trial - that she “looked like Frankenstein” after the shooting.

Bluntly… I think using the word “mutilated” or saying that LK “looks like Frankenstein” … well… both are a bit of hyperbole, IMO, if we are talking about chest and abdomen scars.

Did LK have a very serious surgery and almost died? Yes. She definitely did. Does she have scars on her chest and abdomen now? Yes. I’m sure she does.

But let’s pause and consider how many people over the age of 40 have scars on their chest and abdomen. Breast cancer like myself and multiple others on this thread have referenced? Yeah. People have scars after going through it. Breast Cancer is ubiquitous. A huge number of women in our society have faced it. An even larger number of women have been through lumpectomy for benign masses. Lumpectomy can leave really nasty scars. And then, we have to consider all the people in society who have had heart surgery of some kind, and have a scar on their chests afterwards. That’s not a small number either. Heart disease is also an ubiquitous health issue in people over a certain age. And then, we can pause and consider the large number of women out there with a long abdominal scar after delivering a child via c-section. That’s not a small number either.

Of course there are plenty of other health concerns that can result in scars on the breast, chest and abdomen… but those are some of the most common reasons I could think of that people have these sort of scars. Maybe lung conditions and lung cancer should be included as well… I am not knowledgeable on how common lung cancer is in the general population though.

Is it common for people who have been through these issues to harp on how they were “mutilated” and how they “look like Frankenstein?” No. It’s not common. That’s an extreme mindset to take when talking about scars.

Again… I am not trying to say that Lauren didn’t suffer a serious life threatening injury, and that the surgery wasn’t significant. Of course it was! But… this choice to use hyperbole and harp on how upsetting the resulting scars are? It’s… an odd choice.

As far as the legal case goes… I guess if she had a thriving career as a fashion or swimsuit model, or if she worked in another field where having a “perfect” body was a key professional necessity… she could sue for loss of income related to these scars. But… as best we know… she doesn’t do work like that. So, her scars are upsetting. But not life threatening anymore, nor career limiting.

As others have said… maybe pursuing counseling to deal with this is the most appropriate thing she could do in order to move forward emotionally at this point. I guess that will be investigated as well during the civil litigation process, however, once they get into the discovery phase involving documentation of medical, psychological and emotional harm.

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Wow Erin! Great research. That’s very interesting.

I’m hoping we get to see a response to GAS’s motion today from Silver. Maybe Deininger as well. My guess is that Silver will have quite a bit to say, and be first out of the gate though…

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Just a note that the definition of mutilation is violently and maliciously inflicting a serious wound on another person.

I’d concede that mutilation is possible for the gunshot wounds, but there is no case for mutilation in regards to surgical scarring.

ETA: this is legal definition. I’m aware there are other interpretations of the word in common English.

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Frankenstein was not mutilated in any way, at least not in any way that was revealed in the story. It was Dr. Frankenstein’s “monster” that had scars from being pieced together by Dr. Frankenstein.

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It was telling that Dr. Frankenstein’s monster was never given a name.

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Impressive literary specificity. You make a good point.

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That’s really interesting and relevant.

As with everything else in this case, words and details matter when someone decides to pursue a lawsuit.

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Hi Lazaret! Thanks for all of your valuable input and incredible patience!

Is my interpretation of 30(d)(3) above correct? Seems that is the basis for GAS’s argument that referenced “8.4:14-4”…

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Perhaps more telling that the monster develops his personality and mannerisms by eavesdropping.

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Eavesdropping on someone (Dr. F.) who is not a very nice person. He’s a narcissist, a liar, and a bad “parent.” Hmm, sound familiar?

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The short answer to your question is you are correct, generally speaking the law errs on the side of more lenient discovery. The underlying principle is that anything obtained can be objected to when it is offered at trial and therefore there is no harm in obtaining it in the first place. The harm or potential harm hasn’t been incurred until trial so it can be remedied at that time.

This law is mostly used to keep people from being deposed who have little relevance, such as wanting to depose every single employee at an employer someone is suing.

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Actually, he’s eavesdropping on a blind man and his family. He becomes educated and well spoken, eventually revealing himself to the man. The man shows him kindness, until his family sees the monster and rejects him. Thus begins the monster’s pursuit of revenge against Dr. Frankenstein.

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Thank you! As it pertains to annoying, embarrassing or oppressing the plaintiff, am I correct that 30(d)(3) allows for that if it is reasonable and in good faith?

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Well it’s not so much allowable as it’s not considered to be annoying or harassing in the first place if it is reasonable.

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So it’s unlikely GAS will get his motion? He’s asking for oral arguments if it is opposed, by the defense, I presume. He’s not asking for oral arguments if ot is opposed by the court, os he?

Your behaviour speaks more about you than our family.

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Makes sense! Thank you!! I imagine that in civil suits especially, one is often annoyed or embarrassed by the questioning during deposition. So a blanket prohibition on mere annoyance or embarrassment seemed unreasonable, unless the intent of the questions was unreasonable or irrelevant and designed merely to do so.

Thanks again!

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Your posting was incorrect. @SierraMistposted correctly. Here is the information posted by @SierraMist.

Here is an excerpt from that link.

What are New Jersey Basement Egress Code Requirements?

“* The window must be openable from the inside without the use of keys, tools, or special knowledge.

  • If there is more than one sleeping room in a basement, a means of egress is required in each sleeping room.
  • It must provide an unobstructed opening with a minimum area of 5.7 sq. ft. (This requirement drops to 5 sq. ft. for grade floor or below grade openings).
  • The height of the clear opening must be at least 24" and the width must be at least 20".
  • The sill height must not be more than 44" above the floor.
  • If the sill height is below grade, the window must have a window well.
  • If required, the window well must be at least 9 sq. ft. in an area with a horizontal projection and a width of at least 36" each.
  • Window wells deeper than 44" must have permanent steps or a ladder that do not impede the opening of the window.“

But you, Kirby! I mean, @Seeker1 Your behavior speaks volumes about your family.

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Wow. I thought someone might have a headache and be sleeping in this morning.

Apparently not.

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