Michigan Welsh Ponies--Registration ?

[Endevor]

For those of you who purchased one of the Palustrine Farm Welsh Ponies at the Manchester, MI auction a few weeks back, I’m curious if you have contacted the Welsh registry about getting papers for the pony you purchased.

I called numerous times and kept getting told the registrar (Kim I think her name is) works part time and was unavailable. I was told to try emailing her–no response from that. Finally, I was able to get someone to talk with. I was told that I would have to submit four 4 x 6 photos of my pony (front, rear, each side) and copies of any paperwork I had from the auction and a letter detailing how I acquired my pony. Supposedly the board will review this but the board doesn’t meet until November.

When I asked about simply submitting a DNA sample, the lady told me they’d have nothing to compare the sample to. As I have Indy, who is 7 years old and has several foals, it was my understanding that there should have been a DNA profile on file for her already since she’s been bred and I think some of her foals have been registered. Therefore, I’m a bit confused.

Just curious if this is the same thing others have been told and whether I should keep nagging the registry. I’d really like to get a response before November!

[snkstacres]

[QUOTE=Endevor;4277371]
For those of you who purchased one of the Palustrine Farm Welsh Ponies at the Manchester, MI auction a few weeks back, I’m curious if you have contacted the Welsh registry about getting papers for the pony you purchased.

I called numerous times and kept getting told the registrar (Kim I think her name is) works part time and was unavailable. I was told to try emailing her–no response from that. Finally, I was able to get someone to talk with. I was told that I would have to submit four 4 x 6 photos of my pony (front, rear, each side) and copies of any paperwork I had from the auction and a letter detailing how I acquired my pony. Supposedly the board will review this but the board doesn’t meet until November.

When I asked about simply submitting a DNA sample, the lady told me they’d have nothing to compare the sample to. As I have Indy, who is 7 years old and has several foals, it was my understanding that there should have been a DNA profile on file for her already since she’s been bred and I think some of her foals have been registered. Therefore, I’m a bit confused.

Just curious if this is the same thing others have been told and whether I should keep nagging the registry. I’d really like to get a response before November![/QUOTE]

I am curious, is there some reason if these ponies were sold as registered that there papers werent made available. I think it is illegal to represent an animal is registered or even purebred unless the papers are available. As well, but maybe its a state by state thing, as far as I know, papers belong to an animal, not an owner. They are to GO with the animal. You have a right to papers although a lot of people try and withhold papers so that no breeding occurs. That may only be done until spaying or neutering has been completed except in the case of a mare. It can be done for dogs, cats and stallions though.

If these ponies are registered and were sold as such, getting the papers should be a whole lot easier than what you are describing. If the ponies were sold unregistered, then that is a whole different ball of wax. Contact the auctioneers to see what it was they described them as. They have an obligation.

[Endevor]

We were we should be able to get papers

At the sale, it was announced that if we submitted a DNA sample and copies of the paperwork that we could get papers from the Welsh Pony and Cob Society. It’s my understanding this was a case of the state of MI seizing the ponies and dispersing of them due to a divorce and dividing assets.

Their rulebook states:
5. Whenever legal title of a registered animal passes to another person by reason of death of the recorded owner, foreclosure of any lien, by any order or decree of court, or otherwise by operation of law, the WPCSA may transfer the registration to the new owner:
a. Upon court order of competent jurisdiction or other satisfactory proof of authority for the transfer.
b. Upon payment of the transfer fee.
c. Upon satisfaction of other requirements as may be required by the Board of Directors.

I just don’t understand why it seems the registry is not being more cooperative. They stand to make money from those of us wishing to acquire the papers from things such as transfer fees, membership fees, and future foal registrations.

[snkstacres]

[QUOTE=Endevor;4278057]
At the sale, it was announced that if we submitted a DNA sample and copies of the paperwork that we could get papers from the Welsh Pony and Cob Society. It’s my understanding this was a case of the state of MI seizing the ponies and dispersing of them due to a divorce and dividing assets.

Their rulebook states:
5. Whenever legal title of a registered animal passes to another person by reason of death of the recorded owner, foreclosure of any lien, by any order or decree of court, or otherwise by operation of law, the WPCSA may transfer the registration to the new owner:
a. Upon court order of competent jurisdiction or other satisfactory proof of authority for the transfer.
b. Upon payment of the transfer fee.
c. Upon satisfaction of other requirements as may be required by the Board of Directors.

I just don’t understand why it seems the registry is not being more cooperative. They stand to make money from those of us wishing to acquire the papers from things such as transfer fees, membership fees, and future foal registrations.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm, well send in the info you just printed off here as well as a DNA sample. Its not unusaul to wait a few months for paperwork, at least my experience if you dont have the original. At least there is light at the end of this tunnel. She wont have a baby in three months if that is your intent.

[Endevor]

Not interested in foals here

Honestly, I’m not intending on breeding this mare, at least not in the foreseeable future. I’d much prefer to get her broke and rideable.

When I was in touch with someone at the Welsh registry, I was specifically told NOT to submit a DNA sample because supposedly there was nothing to compare it to? That’s partly where I’m confused. I was under the impression that since this mare has been bred before, she would have a DNA profile on file so there SHOULD be DNA on file for her.

But, I will try to be patient since you say that it isn’t unusual for these sorts of matters to take several months to sort out. I guess I thought we’d get things resolved in a much shorter time frame. Thanks for your responses.

[Tamara_in_TN]

@Endevor;4278057

At the sale, it was announced that if we submitted a DNA sample and copies of the paperwork that we could get papers from the Welsh Pony and Cob Society. It’s my understanding this was a case of the state of MI seizing the ponies and dispersing of them due to a divorce and dividing assets.

I just don’t understand why it seems the registry is not being more cooperative. They stand to make money from those of us wishing to acquire the papers from things such as transfer fees, membership fees, and future foal registrations.

probably as there are some pretty serious computer and manpower shortages there now,the BOD will have to meet and approve any registrations,the paperwork must be absolutley in order and while you may give them $30 or so for a registration there is also for them the loss in both paperwork and stallion service fees…

if they decide to waive all sorts of things and go quickly for this small bunch of animals how then can they require the rest of us…who have played by the rules for years and years and who did not get our sale animals advertised from hell to breakfast and back for free… to feel ???

after all our breeding programs,yearly memberships,stallion fees,transfers,registrations and such have supported the office long before a bunch of folks bought these animals at a court ordered sale…

I hate to sound gruff…but if we must wait as members in good standing for months for a decision from our own BOD…why should someone else get faster service??

best,

[rideagoldenpony]

If a mare has a foal that has been registered in recent years, then they will have a HAIR SAMPLE on file, not necessarily a DNA record they can just pull.

The WPCSA has very set rules regarding registrations and transfers. They follow them to the letter, so you might want to familiarize yourself with the rules and figure out where you fall. Because this was a seizure, you may be able to have the papers transfered, but that WILL require the Board to meet and go over everything. You’ll want to make sure you are providing complete information, as the Board meets only quarterly.

Your best bet actually may be to contact the previous owner and see if she will cooperate by giving you the papers and signing a transfer over to you. That would be FAR easier and faster.

Calling the WPCSA and saying you have such-and-such pony, give me the papers won’t get you anywhere. There’s going to have to be documentation about who the pony is, as well as documentation about the seizure.

As far as the previously UNregistered ponies, you can start by e-mailing and finding out if a Stallion Service Report was filed for the sire the year the mare was bred (you’ll need to know the stallion’s registered name for this). If that was not filled out and sent in with appropriate fees, you will be completely out of luck on registering the previously unregistered ponies.

The WPCSA is not the AQHA. They don’t have tons of people on staff, so please treat them courteously. They are lovely to work with, and try very hard, but there is only so many of them.

[Endevor]

Thank you

Thanks rideagoldenpony and Tamara. I was just curious if this was how these sorts of situations are handled. I’ve dealt with registries such as AQHA and the Arabian Horse Association which are probably staffed at MUCH higher levels than the WP&CS. Because I’ve previously had more popular breeds, I suppose I’ve grown accustomed to the registries being rather speedy in their turnaround time and didn’t think that the Welsh registry is likely much smaller than those.

I wasn’t looking to circumvent the system–just wanted to be sure I indeed received correct information since it took so long just to get a person to speak with me AND because the information I received at the auction was different than what I was told from the registry.

Maybe I was misunderstanding about the DNA–I got the impression that all breeding stock was DNA typed, not just that a hair sample was on file.

[Tamara_in_TN]

[QUOTE=Endevor;4279138]
I suppose I’ve grown accustomed to the registries being rather speedy in their turnaround time and didn’t think that the Welsh registry is likely much smaller than those.

you have no idea how tiny…but when you register less then 1000 new ponies or cobs in any given year you are not generating any income…

and then when so many are then sold as “hunter” ponies (minus the papers no one cares about anyway;))

you can bet that the initial registation is prob the last money the Association will see on that animal anyway…it would be nice if every time some one jerked papers to make an extra buck they had the good manners to tell the Office…they could then clean up the database a bit more…

regards

[welshponies]

For those of you who purchased ponies stolen from Palustrine Farm, the Michigan Attorney General will be getting involved… The “Divorce Settlement” awarded me ALL of what I owned before I met the sociopath Paul Ruesink, and his corrupt family wanted me off the 205 acres that h had abandoned 2 years earlier (9 years if you count the fact that he was basically unemployed for the last 8 years and I paid for EVERYTHING!!!).because they were signing Oil and Gas Leases with Savoy Energy for the Farm entailed to the MacArthur Ruesink Trust, Revocable by MUTUAL AGREEMENT ONLY!! Lenawee County Register of Deeds Liber 2409 Page 0746 (8 Page Trust drawn up by Bruggemans) If you want to live in a Dictatorship move to Russia, this 13th Generation American is still fighting back!! https://www.change.org/p/michigan-judicial-tenure-commission-demand-return-of-properties-and-reparations-from-judge-margaret-ms-noe

[LaurieB]

interesting thread bump…

[goodhors]

For sure, and after all this time!

[Marla_100]

@welshponies

For those of you who purchased ponies stolen from Palustrine Farm, the Michigan Attorney General will be getting involved… The “Divorce Settlement” awarded me ALL of what I owned before I met the sociopath Paul Ruesink, and his corrupt family wanted me off the 205 acres that h had abandoned 2 years earlier (9 years if you count the fact that he was basically unemployed for the last 8 years and I paid for EVERYTHING!!!).because they were signing Oil and Gas Leases with Savoy Energy for the Farm entailed to the MacArthur Ruesink Trust, Revocable by MUTUAL AGREEMENT ONLY!! Lenawee County Register of Deeds Liber 2409 Page 0746 (8 Page Trust drawn up by Bruggemans) If you want to live in a Dictatorship move to Russia, this 13th Generation American is still fighting back!! https://www.change.org/p/michigan-judicial-tenure-commission-demand-return-of-properties-and-reparations-from-judge-margaret-ms-noe

So does that mean you won’t be co-operating with OP in registering her legally purchased pony?