Micklem Bridle Rules Question

[yaya]

[QUOTE=flaxenfilly23;8599875]
I had the same issue you are having with my mare. I finally tossed the o-ring and went with a Dr Bristol snaffle. It fits her perfectly now.

o-ring - Could not get the lower strap to fit properly without interfering with the bit. Even with the bit pulled up higher in her mouth it just was not working for me.
http://s1214.photobucket.com/user/fl...ml?sort=6&o=14

Dr Bristol bit - fits her perfectly
http://s1214.photobucket.com/user/fl...ml?sort=6&o=22[/QUOTE]

Your links don’t work.

[flaxenfilly23]

Oops! Sorry, the links should be fixed now

[Mia_Sorella]

For the OP: Based on your last set of photos, I think you really need to try a smaller bit (unless the bit is sitting really crooked, there’s a lot of extra bit showing at the corner of her mouth), likely a different cheek piece, and place the bit higher in your mare’s mouth. An eggbutt, loose-ring might give you a similar feel to the fulmer.

I totally get that we all have our personal preferences regarding how tack should fit, but IME a lot of sensitive horses would be fussy with a bit that loose/low in their mouth. Just try playing around with the bit height. I could be 100% wrong and that is just how your horse likes it, but it couldn’t hurt to try.

EDIT: Just want to clarify that my comments are based on the assumption that you want to try to make the Micklem work for your mare.

[Mondo]

“It seems quite similar to seeing western riders not wanting to use curb chains with curb bits.” Not to hijack, but this statement leaves out the part where the western riders DO use a curb chain on a snaffle. SMH.

OP - May I ask what your trainer says about all this? I am a fan of Micklem bridles if warranted. Like a few others, I think a smaller bit without the full cheek pieces would go a long way to assisting you with the proper fit. Please let us know how you resolve your issues - it may be helpful to someone else in the future.

[NoSuchPerson]

[QUOTE=Mondo;8600507]
Not to hijack, but this statement leaves out the part where the western riders DO use a curb chain on a snaffle. SMH.[/QUOTE]

Do you understand the purpose of using a chin strap on a snaffle bit on a western headstall? If no, do you have any interest in understanding? If yes, then I’ll be happy to explain it.

[csaper58]

[QUOTE=NoSuchPerson;8600591]
Do you understand the purpose of using a chin strap on a snaffle bit on a western headstall? If no, do you have any interest in understanding? If yes, then I’ll be happy to explain it.[/QUOTE]

A. this seems unwarranted, arrogant, and grumpy

B. curb chains and chin straps are different things.

Someone at our barn is using two small nylon puppy collars as bit hangers until small ones are obtained from Horseware. I have seen zip ties used also.

What mouth piece is on the fulmer bit?

[Mondo]

I’ve seen chin straps (and yes No such I find them extraneous too) and I have also seen CURB CHAINS on snaffle bits. Always western riders. So please, by all means explain away.

[alibi_18]

[QUOTE=flaxenfilly23;8599875]
I had the same issue you are having with my mare. I finally tossed the o-ring and went with a Dr Bristol snaffle. It fits her perfectly now.[/QUOTE]

Just to point out that your comparison doesn’t work.
O-ring / Loose ring is the type of cheek pieces and determine the type snaffle bit it is : Loose ring, D-Bit, Eggbutt, fulmer, Full cheek, half cheek, Baucher, Kimberwick, pelham, Dutch gag/continental/pessoa/3-ring, bevel,wilson, etc.)

Dr Bristol is a type of mouthpiece. This particular mouthpiece could be found in different snaffle bit : D-bit Dr. Bristol, Loose ring Dr Bristol, Full Cheek Dr Bristol.
Other type of mouthpieces : single jointed, double jointed (french link (or lozenge, or berry), Dr Bristol, etc), mullen mouth, segunda, double snaffle, waterford, wings, etc.

Then you have the shape of the mouthpiece: ported, slow/twisted/wire, ergonomic, etc…

And then you can add some extras: copper inlays, barrels, rollers, different types of joints (like revolvers, locking)…

Finally, they come in different material: hard rubber, soft rubber, happy mouth, sweet iron, argentan, aurigan, sensogan, stainless, never rust (brass), cyprium, salox, other different copper alloys, etc…

[NoSuchPerson]

[QUOTE=csaper58;8600656]
A. this seems unwarranted, arrogant, and grumpy[/QUOTE]

More so than the person I was replying to who was so sadly shaking her head at the stupidity of western riders using a chin strap on a snaffle bit?

@Mondo;8600700

I’ve seen chin straps (and yes No such I find them extraneous too) and I have also seen CURB CHAINS on snaffle bits. Always western riders. So please, by all means explain away.

One of the things that the cavesson on an English bridle does is keep the horse’s mouth from gaping open. A western headstall doesn’t have a cavesson. A chin strap connecting the rings of the snaffle, especially if you’re using a loose ring (o-ring in western parlance), helps stabilize the bit and keep it from being pulled through the horse’s mouth if, during fast, abrupt activities like working cattle or barrel racing, you end up in a moment where the horse’s mouth gapes open and the rider has a lot of pressure on one rein.

It’s also useful when working with young horses. As Eurodressage.com notes:

A correctly fitted noseband not only helps to show the youngster the right acceptance of the bit, but also prevents that it establishes unpleasant reactions like gaping, crossing the jaws, or even putting the tongue over the bit…

In a western bridle, which lacks the cavesson, the chin strap takes over some of that by, as I already mentioned, helping to stabilize the bit in the horse’s mouth.

Do you see people who are just imitating what they’ve seen BNTs do without understanding why it’s done? Of course. Do some of those people not quite get it right because they don’t understand the reasons for it? Sure. But there is indeed a real reason for using a chin strap with a snaffle in certain circumstances.

So, really, there’s no need to go about shaking your head sadly over the poor ignorant western riders who use a chin strap on their snaffle bits.

[leheath]

[QUOTE=sammy14;8599484]
You may just have a bit that’s too big, as it seems to be sagging even with your version of tight? Fulmer bits are usually used with bit keepers on the top branch which I don’t think would work with that bridle. I think the noseband is now a little too low and too loose also. If the drop part were snug it wouldn’t interfere imo.
An eggbutt works a lot like a Fulmer without the problems you seem to be having.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, keepers change the bit angle and function in a way I do not desire. I also did try the drop part being tighter but it didn’t really stop the interference (I think it is something to do with the shape of her head?!) and it was definitely not how I would want to ride. I do not use a flash noseband. I don’t think the bit is too big (but I’ll definitely look again next time I ride) but I am not sure what you mean by it “sagging” - can you explain that a little?

[leheath]

[QUOTE=yaya;8599540]
If you like how your horse goes with the Micklem with the lower strap behind the bit (which is not the way it is designed), you may want to try a bridle with the Tota Comfort noseband. It is shaped much like the Micklem, but is designed to be a regular cavesson, not a drop or flash. It’s expensive, but I think it will do more easily what you are trying to make the Micklem do.
http://totacomfortsystem.com/shop/[/QUOTE]

I think this would be the perfect solution, but I really cannot justify $350 for just a noseband. I thought the Micklem was expensive! Would love to find one used or perhaps they will eventually come down in price?

[leheath]

[QUOTE=Desert Topaz;8599807]
I think you’re having the same problem I had. There was no way to adjust a Micklem so the strap that goes in front of the bit didn’t go over the ring of the bit, unless I put the top of the nose part way lower than it’s supposed to go. We ultimately determined my horse has short lips, so where the bit had to sit in relation to the bridle didn’t go with how the bridle was designed. I gave up.[/QUOTE]

Thanks - good to know I’m not the only one struggling. Really hope I can make it work…but at least the Micklem bridles re-sell pretty well if I can’t!

[leheath]

[QUOTE=flaxenfilly23;8599875]
I had the same issue you are having with my mare. I finally tossed the o-ring and went with a Dr Bristol snaffle. It fits her perfectly now.

o-ring - Could not get the lower strap to fit properly without interfering with the bit. Even with the bit pulled up higher in her mouth it just was not working for me.
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc494/flaxenfilly23/image1%202.jpeg

Dr Bristol bit - fits her perfectly
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc494/flaxenfilly23/image2.jpeg[/QUOTE]

Hmm…that is very interesting and not what I expected. Will ponder different bits.

[leheath]

[QUOTE=Mia Sorella;8600006]
For the OP: Based on your last set of photos, I think you really need to try a smaller bit (unless the bit is sitting really crooked, there’s a lot of extra bit showing at the corner of her mouth), likely a different cheek piece, and place the bit higher in your mare’s mouth. An eggbutt, loose-ring might give you a similar feel to the fulmer.

I totally get that we all have our personal preferences regarding how tack should fit, but IME a lot of sensitive horses would be fussy with a bit that loose/low in their mouth. Just try playing around with the bit height. I could be 100% wrong and that is just how your horse likes it, but it couldn’t hurt to try.

EDIT: Just want to clarify that my comments are based on the assumption that you want to try to make the Micklem work for your mare.[/QUOTE]

Hmm…I am not totally clear on why everyone sees extra bit and/or think it is too big for her? Her lips touch the inside of the cheek pieces on both sides so I would think a smaller bit would be pushing against the lips and risk pinching. I think this might just be an issue with photo angles or the fact that IME fulmers always tend to look like there is a lot sticking out either side because there is the cheek piece, then the ring holding the loose ring?

I will try the bit in the higher position (as seen in the second set of photos) the next time I ride to see if it makes any difference to her. I was actually surprised at how unbothered she seemed when I was adjusting it! If I can get the bridle to work with the only problem being the cheek pieces interfering with the lower strap rings, I would consider switching bits.

[leheath]

[QUOTE=csaper58;8600656]
…What mouth piece is on the fulmer bit?[/QUOTE]

The mouth piece is a single jointed snaffle.

Regarding what my trainer thinks, I live in the boonies, so I only see an instructor 3x/year every few months in the summer! Her first visit of the year is at the end of April. So, I have not discussed the bridle with her, but this is the bit she recommends and prefers for my horse.

[rebecca_yount]

Leheath I have a tota cavesson I’ll sell you. PM me if interested.

[leheath]

[QUOTE=rebecca yount;8601180]
Leheath I have a tota cavesson I’ll sell you. PM me if interested.[/QUOTE]

PM sent!

[leheath]

Sorry…sent another PM as I realized the first one didn’t make any sense!

[sammy14]

By sagging, I mean the bit rings are leaning outwards and the cheekpieces falling away from the head. A bit will usually touch the sides of the mouth, even if too big, as/if it folds in the middle.If you take bit through the mouth with your finger between the mouth and the bit on the opposite side you will see the excess if there is any.

[Kolsch]

[QUOTE=leheath;8601146]
The mouth piece is a single jointed snaffle.

Regarding what my trainer thinks, I live in the boonies, so I only see an instructor 3x/year every few months in the summer! Her first visit of the year is at the end of April. So, I have not discussed the bridle with her, but this is the bit she recommends and prefers for my horse.[/QUOTE]

I might have missed it upthread, but have you ever tried a drop noseband and using the fulmer with keepers? I know that some people use a fulmer without keepers, but in general most people do and if a trainer suggested to me to use a fulmer I’d assume they meant with the keepers.

I’ve never tried a drop on my Micklem loving horse because I’ve yet to find one on the cheap that has an adjustable noseband so it would fit correctly.