Micklem vs. Figure 8 bridle and "chomping" on the bit

[YellowPonyEventer]

So I have been riding on the flat (dressage) in my Micklem bridle for some time now, and I honestly don’t know that I’ve seen much difference from my mare’s old bridle which was just a cavasson noseband w/flash attachment. But recently I tried a figure 8 bridle and I swear my mare went a little better in it vs the Micklem. Not significantly, but definitley worth me looking into.

So her biggest problem is that once you start to pick up contact, she begins to nervously chomp on the bit. Not a nice mouthing but more like she’s trying to chew it away from my hands/opening her mouth and rooting. She’s done that to some degree for years and it’s almost exclusively on the flat when I ask her for more collection. We’re pretty sure it’s just a nervous habit from her past/training issue that I am working through with my trainer, but I also want to make sure she’s as comfortable as possible to allow her every chance to relax. We’ve tried every bit under the sun and finally settled on a loose ring french link snaffle which she likes best out of everything we’ve tried. So I’ve got the bit figured out for now, just playing around with the bridle.

I have adjusted the Micklem several times and nothing really seems to change…and I’ve tried adjusting the flash on it from very loose to very tight and everywhere in between and nothing really seems to make a difference. Then I put her in the figure 8 and while it doesn’t eliminate the chomping, it improves it. So I think I’m headed in the right direction, but wondering if anyone’s had any experience in the two bridle types and what are your thoughts and/or had any experience with the “chomping” behavior and how you corrected it?

[Hilary]

I have stopped scratching my head over my horses’ preferences for things. If she likes the figure 8? That’s what she likes. I had one who was SO awful in the figure 8 I had to take it off 10 minutes into the ride and hang it on the rail. Put in her a drop and she stomped her little foot once and then said “oh, this is OK”.

The contact issue can be difficult to fix and sometimes it’s finding the right bit? Noseband? Saddle? And also teaching her that “this is contact, it’s here to stay, so let’s learn it’s an ok place to be”.

One of the hard things to do as a rider is to not give too soon when the horse is fussy - you need to keep your hands firm but quiet until SHE settles down.

[Highflyer]

My horse likes the Micklem on the flat with a snaffle but doesn’t like it with anything stronger. It really is art, not a science! Go with what works for you.

[Jealoushe]

I find the chomping is more bit related than noseband related. What’s your horses mouth like? Big or small lips? Low or high pallet? Long crease or short little mouth? All comes into play with the type of bit and noseband they will find comfortable. I find Mullen mouth straight bars tend to do a lot for a horse that chomps.

Has their teeth been checked recently?

A drop noseband is another thing to try if changing bits does nothing.

[Kerrysmom818]

I went from a Micklem to a figure 8 and also switched bits. I never felt like the Micklem was adjustable enough - never seemed quite right for my guy, although he did prefer it over a flash. The figure 8 is much better.

Former trainer put him in a thin french link for “better control” - when we moved on to a new trainer I put him into a thicker bean type mouthpiece and he really seems to prefer that. He’s been a much happier horse with this new set up.

[YellowPonyEventer]

I didn’t want to make my OP too long, but I figured more questions would come up so just for everyone to get all the background details

She’s UTD on floating, just had it done a couple of months ago. This is something that’s not new, has gone on for years with her.

She definitely prefers the thin bits to the thick ones (she is anything BUT happy in a happy mouth or rubber bit!) - if you stick anything thicker than her current bit in her mouth the chomping and fussing gets REALLY bad! This is her current bit: Albacon loose ring french link

I never have tried a drop noseband with her, that may be something new to give a shot…

Oh and saddles have been fit to her back by a certified saddle fitter who owns a large local tack shop. Both her jump and dressage sadddles were chosen to fit her back and then the dressage (which is wool) was flocked to get the perfect fit It’s an Albion SLK. That’s the one I ride in most of the time…the jump saddle is a Prestige Passion and it fits her very well too.

I’ve tried all types of metals and this Albacon is the one she seems to be happiest with so far - she is more relaxed and salivates more in it.

She’s also been vet checked extensively to ensure she doesn’t have anything else going on…she’s not lame or sore anywhere now (she had been chronically back sore previously due to an enlarged ovary but Regumate has since taken care of that). But I wonder if some of the chomping is residual learned behavior from having the reproductive issues/back soreness in the past? She’s had chronic back soreness issues for years that have just recently been improved with the Regumate/enlarged ovary discovery.

My trainer seems to think that I need to just make the mare “deal with it” like Hilary mentioned above, she thinks she’s just being fussy/lazy. She is very fit and her topline muscling, etc is in shape to do what I am asking. I’m not asking for anything above Training level dressage movements right now, I’m bringing the mare up very slowly and correctly

She’s 15 years old now and I have owned her since she was 7…I have never competed higher than BN/schooled higher than N with her to date. I have jumped her up to 3’6" without a problem so I know she’s got room to move up, but I honestly won’t likely ever ask her to move higher than Training level in Eventing, if we even ever get there…right now the goal is N, we’ve been doing BN a couple of years. I don’t like to push too hard or fast, she’s like a family member to me so I care about her safety and comfort above anything else

[Highflyer]

Not related to bitting, but it’s absolutely appropriate to start to ask for stuff like lateral movement, lengthening and shortening stride, a few steps of counter canter, simple changes etc pretty early on (with help from someone who knows how to teach them of course). I have a green Novice horse and he is schooling all of these things. They are good tools to have for the jumping plus it keeps the flatwork interesting.

[YellowPonyEventer]

[QUOTE=Highflyer;8748761]
Not related to bitting, but it’s absolutely appropriate to start to ask for stuff like lateral movement, lengthening and shortening stride, a few steps of counter canter, simple changes etc pretty early on (with help from someone who knows how to teach them of course). I have a green Novice horse and he is schooling all of these things. They are good tools to have for the jumping plus it keeps the flatwork interesting.[/QUOTE]

Definitely! We do a lot of lateral work during our flatwork sessions and it does wonders to “unlock” her and make her focus!

[YellowPonyEventer]

Question for those who recommended a drop noseband…how are those different than the Micklem? To me, that part of the bridle looks very similar to a Micklem that is adjusted low (which Micklem will tell you not to do).

[redalter]

I am going through this very same scenario, but in reverse.

My guy internalizes things, and when he gets worried or tense, he grinds the bridle. We’ve been through everything - teeth, saddle, ulcer scope, chiropractic, etc,. We seem to have it narrowed down to just nerves, and only sometimes.

I went from using a flash for both flat and jumping, to just a flash for flat and figure 8 for jumping - he seemed to like that better- (the figure 8). I got a Micklem and am trying it for the flat, he seemed to like it, though I struggle with making sure I have it fitted correctly. I watched the videos, went to the site, watched those, talked to the people at the tack store, asked friends and coach who uses one, so I have run the gamut.
I like it though I wish the noseband would sit just a bit higher. I even went to a smaller size Micklem, but that was way too small.

The later work really does seem to help! I have also been doing long and low, then pick up, then long and low.

[YellowPonyEventer]

[QUOTE=redalter;8748898]
I am going through this very same scenario, but in reverse.

My guy internalizes things, and when he gets worried or tense, he grinds the bridle. We’ve been through everything - teeth, saddle, ulcer scope, chiropractic, etc,. We seem to have it narrowed down to just nerves, and only sometimes.

I went from using a flash for both flat and jumping, to just a flash for flat and figure 8 for jumping - he seemed to like that better- (the figure 8). I got a Micklem and am trying it for the flat, he seemed to like it, though I struggle with making sure I have it fitted correctly. I watched the videos, went to the site, watched those, talked to the people at the tack store, asked friends and coach who uses one, so I have run the gamut.
I like it though I wish the noseband would sit just a bit higher. I even went to a smaller size Micklem, but that was way too small.

The later work really does seem to help! I have also been doing long and low, then pick up, then long and low.[/QUOTE]

Sounds VERY similar to my girl! I have to give her lots of long and low stretchy breaks or else she gets very tense and the chomping intensifies! I’m going to try riding her with no flash tonight just to see what she does.

And yes on the Micklem, it’s SO hard to fit in correctly!! I have the small horse size and my mare is usually a cob but sometimes a horse size on the smallest setting mainly due to the fact that she’s a QH with the big QH jowls! :lol: so the Micklem small horse size is adjusted as short as it will go on the cheek pieces but on the biggest setting for the throatlatch! And then the flash band is usually on the second to last hole on that setting. But then it’s almost hitting the bit right on top of it rather than in front of it, which is very odd…and makes me wonder, it being a loose ring, if it’s making the bit pinch her lips?? I never see marks there or anything but if it is doing that, it could explain her nervousness when I pick up the contact, if she’s worried it’s going to pinch her!

Maybe I’ll try no flash and an eggbutt bit tonight!

[redalter]

[QUOTE=YellowPonyEventer;8748942]
Sounds VERY similar to my girl! I have to give her lots of long and low stretchy breaks or else she gets very tense and the chomping intensifies! I’m going to try riding her with no flash tonight just to see what she does.

And yes on the Micklem, it’s SO hard to fit in correctly!! I have the small horse size and my mare is usually a cob but sometimes a horse size on the smallest setting mainly due to the fact that she’s a QH with the big QH jowls! :lol: so the Micklem small horse size is adjusted as short as it will go on the cheek pieces but on the biggest setting for the throatlatch! And then the flash band is usually on the second to last hole on that setting. But then it’s almost hitting the bit right on top of it rather than in front of it, which is very odd…and makes me wonder, it being a loose ring, if it’s making the bit pinch her lips?? I never see marks there or anything but if it is doing that, it could explain her nervousness when I pick up the contact, if she’s worried it’s going to pinch her!

Maybe I’ll try no flash and an eggbutt bit tonight![/QUOTE]

I know! My horse is a TB with big pony type cheeks, so I went from horse size to small horse size, now trying the horse size again!
The other day I was so disgusted, I went for a trail ride sans any noseband! He was so happy!
My trainer gave me a “soft elbows, take him in your core mostly” exercise that really helps him, too.

[fordtraktor]

I have a chomper who came off the track looking like a shark. He is still mouthy but much improved on the flat in a Novocontact eggbutt and a plain caveson. I tried a Micklem but it didn’t help. Same with a flash and fig8. So…less is more. I rotate in and out of a HS Duo and a cherry roller. Sometimes the chompers need to keep it interesting, I think. While working on being relaxed and through (lots of leg and transitions and baby lateral work). Keep a light steady contact, ride back to front in whatever bit and ignore it while you are riding. Reward when they are soft and steady in the hand.

He jumps in an oval mouth Beval bit, he gets a little strong when I started putting the fences up more this year. I am less concerned with his chomping than maintaining his good canter over fences. He is actually pretty well broke now but is more ratable in the Beval. In the case of over fences, more is better…I can float him the reins and know he’s there, rather than engage in tug of war to get him back on the landing side of everything like he wanted to do in the eggbutt.

[YellowPonyEventer]

Well tested out using a bridle without a flash this evening with a D ring French link snaffle. Didn’t do a thing to stop the chomping and she was pretty heavy in that bit (typical for her)…so at least I can check that off the list

I really think it’s just something I need to work through with my current bit since it’s the one she seems to like and perform best in of all those I’ve tried so far. Definitely going to test out the figure 8 this weekend though to see if the chomping is any less frequent vs the Micklem.

Thanks for all the tips and for sharing your experiences everyone, it’s definitely sparked some test ideas on this end, love it!

[leheath]

IME, chomping is more bit related than bridle related, while head tossing/fussiness is more likely bridle related (but, of course, YMMV!). Most of my horses have preferred a single joined bit or a Myler Comfort Snaffle over more common double jointed or bits with beans. My fussy, sensitive, chomper also definitely prefers a more stable/quiet cheek piece such as an egg butt, D-ring, or full cheek over the more common loose ring.

[TheBrownHorse]

I have a chomper. It’s just “him” he’s always been like this. It got MUCH worse when he was leased out and almost ruined by being ridden too deep with no connection. He has a natural carriage, but it’s really easy for someone to hop on and “get his head down” while he’s not connected. The softness of him is very difficult, but possible.

I just moved him into a figure eight and what a difference! Some horses just prefer it, and if it works, keep going.

I have had him in all sorts of bits (all snaffles) and tbh, even though the happy mouth wasn’t his “favorite” (happy mouths can create sharp edges on them from chomping, and are rather hard), I switched him into a nathe mullen mouth loose ring and he’s soft, supple, and the chomping has near stopped. Only when he gets really excited (like, we just finished a jump course and he wants to keep going!) or nervous (which he will settle into during work. And by nervous all he does is chomp, he’s not “hot” or skittish).

The Nathe with the figure eight has been exactly what he needed. If you have an opportunity to try a Nathe (as they are, IMO, too expensive to just “try”) give it a shot! You might be surprised at the mullen mouth, though you did say your horse roots which isn’t always the best match, however, sometimes they NEED something sturdy in order to NOT do that, like a mullen mouth)

[YellowPonyEventer]

[QUOTE=TheBrownHorse;8750264]
I have a chomper. It’s just “him” he’s always been like this. It got MUCH worse when he was leased out and almost ruined by being ridden too deep with no connection. He has a natural carriage, but it’s really easy for someone to hop on and “get his head down” while he’s not connected. The softness of him is very difficult, but possible.

I just moved him into a figure eight and what a difference! Some horses just prefer it, and if it works, keep going.

I have had him in all sorts of bits (all snaffles) and tbh, even though the happy mouth wasn’t his “favorite” (happy mouths can create sharp edges on them from chomping, and are rather hard), I switched him into a nathe mullen mouth loose ring and he’s soft, supple, and the chomping has near stopped. Only when he gets really excited (like, we just finished a jump course and he wants to keep going!) or nervous (which he will settle into during work. And by nervous all he does is chomp, he’s not “hot” or skittish).

The Nathe with the figure eight has been exactly what he needed. If you have an opportunity to try a Nathe (as they are, IMO, too expensive to just “try”) give it a shot! You might be surprised at the mullen mouth, though you did say your horse roots which isn’t always the best match, however, sometimes they NEED something sturdy in order to NOT do that, like a mullen mouth)[/QUOTE]
Thanks!! May have to look into that! Yeah she grabs hold and hangs on anything I have tried except a loose ring, she can’t seem to hang on those as well so she’ll “give up” and relax rather than grabbing and pulling down/chomping.