Millbrook Advanced and the removal of the steep hill from the course

[devvie_continued]

I’ve never been to Millbrook but was listening to Eventing Radio Show at work and heard a recap which mentioned that the course, in the opinion of the host, was much better as the jump to steep drop through the woods had been removed from course this year. I was curious and was able to find this part of course on YouTube from previous years.

To me, the hill represents real cross country riding and is something a rider at the level should be able to handle. I’m curious to hear what others think of its removal, good or bad. To me it symbolizes the changes of modern eventing, i.e. less terrain, more groomed, more predictable (less fun?)

[Divine_Comedy]

It’s better to have that hill gone in my opinion. That wasn’t really a hill, it was more of a cliff. Like a ski ramp, really. Think Hickstead Derby slope but three times as long.

I’ve only been to Millbrook twice, once in 2013 and once in 2015, both times in the Advanced division. In 2015, the hill was not on the course, and I believe it was not on it in 2016 either. In 2013, the hill was still on the course, you jumped a fence and then had about two strides level before dropping off the face of the earth. I couldn’t physically walk down this hill without sort of situating my feet sideways as a stop, to keep from sliding or accelerating as I went down.

My trainer (Stephen Bradley at that time) told me that in those two level strides I sure as hell needed to come back to a trot. I asked why, as I had seen videos of PD taking it at a gallop and he responded with “Yes, but Philip has six Advanced horses with a dozen more back at the barn; you have only one.”

Needless to say I trotted the hill.

For the record, Millbrook has PLENTY of terrain besides that thing; I’d rather not risk my horse’s tendons on it if I have a choice.

[Janet]

I agree. It is more of a slide than a hill. It may not look that steep on a video, but try walking down (or up) it.

[devvie_continued]

Thanks for the feedback. You’re sure right that a video is guaranteed not to tell the whole story.

[vineyridge]

So now show jumpers do slides, but eventers don’t?

[bornfreenowexpensive]

@vineyridge

So now show jumpers do slides, but eventers don’t?

I wasn’t a slide…it was much longer, harder footing. In the trees in the woods. It was a tough question especially depending on the jump they had at the bottom. I’ve also almost NEVER seen a slide on a jumper course. I’ve only seen the one in Hickstead Derby.

[vineyridge]

They have one at the Spruce Meadows Derby course with a jump right at the bottom. They have one, IIRC, at Hamburg for their Derby course. They aren’t that common, but they exist, primarily for the great Jumper Derby competitions.

In the trees, in the woods shouldn’t matter if the route is directly down and if the footing is the same as the rest of the course.

[beowulf]

and here I am thinking calling it a “slide” is putting it mildly…

that footing is HARD baked NY soil especially in the summer, very slick - it’s an incredibly hard question especially depending on what is at the bottom.

I do not think it in any way compares to the soft, geotexiled, super-manicured plush grass fabric used at any SJ Derby. Not even a little bit.

I’d have no problem cantering down a manicured slope. This is not one of them.

[Divine_Comedy]

@vineyridge

They have one at the Spruce Meadows Derby course with a jump right at the bottom. They have one, IIRC, at Hamburg for their Derby course. They aren’t that common, but they exist, primarily for the great Jumper Derby competitions.

So I guess yes, the jumpers do them, the eventers don’t. Of course theirs are much much shorter than this one…Hickstead you can get from top to bottom in maybe two strides, this was more like 10-12. I’m sure also the footing on their slides is much more forgiving and in perfect condition. Millbrook’s was not.

I’ve only got one Advanced horse. At the time, he was my only horse, period. I’m quite happy not risking his soundness on a single question that appears nowhere else in possibly the entire world save those derbies.

For the record, I’d have no problem having a go at tackling Morven’s infamous Leaf Pit. I think it’s a better fence with a tangible question. Millbrook’s hill feels more like 'well, we have this monstrous thing, let’s chuck it on the UL course because it seems eventer-y." I’m happy to see it go.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

@vineyridge

They have one at the Spruce Meadows Derby course with a jump right at the bottom. They have one, IIRC, at Hamburg for their Derby course. They aren’t that common, but they exist, primarily for the great Jumper Derby competitions.

In the trees, in the woods shouldn’t matter if the route is directly down and if the footing is the same as the rest of the course.

If you have not seen Millbrooks…I wouldn’t make any opinion. I do not know of a single rider that liked it…and most riders do not have any issue with a proper slide. This was not and not a good question for xc. It’s location in the woods caused the footing to be crap. For most…it was just a time adder…as most riders were not going to risk their horses.

And there were/ are still significant hills and down hill jumps at Millbrook. This particular “hill” to be gone is good. The last time I was there they had to remove the jump at the bottom after multiple falls (by good horses/riders).

[beowulf]

FYI you can see a glimpse of it here, it in no way captures the steepness:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAC6VaSGEt8

about ~2.3m in.

Millbrook is in the heart of terrain country - there are other ways to incorporate hills into an event, Millbrook has tons of it.

[tbchick84]

That actually was called the slide by everyone including the announcer. I’ve stood at the top of it and watched the advanced riders gallop down the thing. I could not / would not do it on a horse in a million years. I’m glad it’s gone Plenty of other terrain there to challenge riders. There is a ditch there near the water complex that is usually jumped at an angle after a one stride skinny, light into dark question. It’s 3 big questions at once and catches up the best riders. No need to send them down a cliff.

[FitToBeTied]

I’ve been to Millbrook and it was considered a slide. There was a similar set up in one of the OLympic Games, I think it was Barcelona but could be wrong on that.

[enjoytheride]

Yikes on the video!

[vineyridge]

I watched the video, and it doesn’t look so bad to me. I’ve faced similar hills foxhunting without difficulties, although nothing any steeper. Nothing prevents trotting down it. You wouldn’t be eliminated for trotting.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

@vineyridge

I watched the video, and it doesn’t look so bad to me. I’ve faced similar hills foxhunting without difficulties, although nothing any steeper. Nothing prevents trotting down it. You wouldn’t be eliminated for trotting.

The video doesn’t convey the footing which is the primary issue there or how steep it is. They also show two really good riders going down so they make it look easier than it is. They removed the jump off the turn that used to be there on the video.

Its a a stupid question and becomes just a time adder as I said before when most people try to conserve their horses. Of course there was typically a significant combination of fences right before it so coming back and going down it in a controlled manner didn’t always happen.

[tbchick84]

@vineyridge

I watched the video, and it doesn’t look so bad to me. I’ve faced similar hills foxhunting without difficulties, although nothing any steeper. Nothing prevents trotting down it. You wouldn’t be eliminated for trotting.

It comes very late in the course and it’s very hard to make the time there, so I’m glad riders are no longer faced with having to gallop down it to make time or trot it and have time faults. That video shows two riders who have ridden it many times over.

[yellowbritches]

It was also on the prelim and intermediate courses, and I did it in 2013, as well. While I was a little naive about it and the idea seemed fun, it really was just a massive hill for no really good reason. I’ll try to remember to post the video of Toby and I doing it, as you can see how hard I had to rearrange his face to take him out of the beautiful rhythm he’d had til then, and the look of surprise on his face. Thank god it was Toby…he’s a handy SOB who at the time was used to hacking some very trappy terrain. We’d been up and down similar hills in our back yard, though we walked down all of them.

There really was no great point to it. You’d be having a fabulous gallop around a beautiful course over some of the most amazing country ever, and then suddenly you have to rearrange your horse’s molars so you don’t go ass over tea kettle off a cliff.

[Joan_from_Flatlands]

Same slide was on the prelim course when I competed there in 2000 back when the water jump was on the other side of the road!

[Divine_Comedy]

@vineyridge

I watched the video, and it doesn’t look so bad to me. I’ve faced similar hills foxhunting without difficulties, although nothing any steeper. Nothing prevents trotting down it. You wouldn’t be eliminated for trotting.

As multiple others have said, the video does not present how truly steep it is. You don’t know if you’ve faced similar hills foxhunting because you haven’t seen it in person. If you see it in person and decide it’s still similar, then feel free to let us know but until you see it in person, I’m not going to give any weight to your comparisons. Truly, the video doesn’t do it justice.

And I did trot down it, or at least tried. I wasn’t worried about elimination. I wasn’t worried about time penalties. I was worried about horse injury.

It’s the kind of hill that you start walking down, then suddenly you are jogging, then running as gravity tries it’s best to get you to the bottom quickly. And when you start at a trot, you end at a gallop, which doesn’t do much for your peace of mind about preventing injury by trotting.

Anyways, this is the last thing I have to say on this matter. Literally everyone who has seen it or ridden it doesn’t love it at best, hates it at worst. Maybe accept that instead of arguing for arguing’s sake.