Modern Pentathalon

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@Thames_Pirate

It’s not about the harm done to the horse per se. You can do damage to a horse without trying and you can abuse the horse without causing much damage. For example, if you hit a horse with a crop, the horse responds, and you keep hitting it simply because you want to with no reason other than emotion/frustration/to “punish” the horse, you are abusing it without causing harm. When you hit a horse with a crop to send it forward and you stop hitting it the moment it responds, it’s not abuse. By the same token, when you are training the horse to react to a spur cue and over time, because you aren’t looking at your heels, your thin-skinned horse develops a sore spot, are you abusing it? No, just making a mistake. But if you intend to cause a sore spot by applying chemicals, you are absolutely abusing. I think intention is the key here. She punched the horse not with the intent to cause harm and not with any training intention, but simply out of frustration. And verbally her advice to the rider was inappropriate, and sanctioning isn*t unwarranted.

The rider was not abusive. A bit rough in the seat and uneducated, but not abusive.

This is an interesting perspective, and I have an easier time following your line of thinking when you lay it out this way.

I do think, in general, it’s abusive to a horse to ask it to go around a 1.2m course with a rider who repeatedly puts it in a BAD spot before a jump, gets left behind over a jump and hits it in the mouth, and fails to do anything even remotely resembling balancing the horse when going around turns. All of those things happen A LOT in the jumping phase of modern pentathlon.

I’m not sure just lowering the jumps will help though. In fact… it might even make matters worse in terms of uneducated rough riding.

At the end of the day, I do think the responsibility to not put a good horse in this sort of situation is the responsibility of the horse’s owner and the riders. I disagree that the focus should be on the coach in this situation, as much as it is. But we can agree to disagree on that one

Maybe lowering the jumps a bit, and changing the nature of the jumping test to something more like a handy hunter round would eliminate some of riding issues that bothered me most when watching this unfold. They could do some larger jumps, but also would have to demonstrate other riding competency and control while on course.

Or, as I said earlier… just have these folks do motocross instead in this phase.

[LSBC]

I will admit I am totally uneducated on the intricacies of the modern pentathlon, but I feel like the riding portion almost encourages you to be a bad rider. You fall off? 60 penalties, get back on. Refuse at the same jump twice? Just skip it! The whole thing looks dangerous to me.

I did IHSA for all my four years of college, and if a horse didn’t want to play anymore, kind of like Saint Boy, they were replaced with a re ride. No point in torturing them or trying to force them to do something they don’t want to do. Especially in that environment.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

I’m surprised no one has linked this Facebook post to this thread yet. It contains video of multiple other rounds that happened at Tokyo in the Women’s jumping phase. Absolutely AWFUL. Multiple horses crashed through jumps…

https://www.facebook.com/100000141760240/posts/4837074242973920/?d=n

[sascha]

In regards to the punch, call it what you will, but then stop and think about the intent behind that punch.

What did she think the punch would accomplish besides releasing a bit of her own frustration?

Ask yourself why did she choose a punch over a slap?

Why did she choose to touch the horse at all when the rider was fit to be tied toddler tantrumming and the horse was melting down?

Ask yourself when is it ok to punch a horse even lightly?

Whether that punch harmed that horse and can be considered abuse is tangential to the bigger problem.

Using one’s whip in competition is regulated, btw. IIRC there has been at least one fairly recent elimination for overuse of whip.

[PracticalCat]

I don’t think the horse cares at all about the intent, though I thought her intent was to get his arse off the rail. Whether that’s legal or not I don’t know.

As far as the punch? It was nothing to that horse. And yes, I can absolutely see someone punching a horses arse or slapping it. It might not be a good solution but it’s not remotely harmful.
I don’t think a human can possibly inflict any damage by punching a horse in the rump.
They can with a whip.

[trubandloki]

My thought on smaller fences is that smaller fences allow for a larger pool of horses that can do this job without imploding. It also lowers the chance of doing long term harm to the poor animal.

Penalties for going too fast would get rid of the crazy zoom thing.

[Event_Horse]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

Guess what? One horse was so wigged out by his INCOMPETENT rider, that after finishing the course, he bolted to the side of the ring and jumped out in a panic.

That rider was in this Olympics too. I can’t remember which one, but the commentators mentioned what happed last time and were like - oh, it happened after they crossed the finish timers, so it didn’t count.

[PracticalCat]

That is heinous. They ought to give up the horse portion.

[fordtraktor]

The punch suspension is not about abuse, in no sport I know of is a coach allowed to interfere physically during a competition round. Bad enough the coach was yelling to the rider to “hit the horse, really hit it”.

[Event_Horse]

I was appalled by how many horses came into the ring in a lather. And this was in the horses’ first rounds. Why couldn’t anyone care enough about the horses to sponge them off? Obviously the coaches and riders just view them as a tool, but what about the officials overseeing it all? What about the owners?

The first rider - I think from Brazil - was eliminated after 2 falls. She came in with her hair in a pony tail hanging past the middle of her back and the collar on one side of her jacket was standing up. Now, I know appearances do not make a rider, but to me it spoke volumes as to the lack of respect for this phase. I can’t believe they let them continue after a fall. It was on the first fall the horse took - he went to his knees as he crashed through the fence. Neither the rider nor the horse were examined thoroughly before she was popped back on and continued.

The Japanese riders looked terrified and were terrifying to watch. They were hanging onto the horses’ mouths for dear life yet their reins kept getting longer and longer and longer.

[Salty]

Thank you.

[SillyHorse]

@PracticalCat

I don’t think the horse cares at all about the intent, though I thought her intent was to get his arse off the rail. Whether that’s legal or not I don’t know.

As far as the punch? It was nothing to that horse. And yes, I can absolutely see someone punching a horses arse or slapping it. It might not be a good solution but it’s not remotely harmful.
I don’t think a human can possibly inflict any damage by punching a horse in the rump.
They can with a whip.

A horse in an Olympic event shouldn’t have to be punched, slapped, spurred, or whipped. The horse shouldn’t ever get to the point where anyone thinks it’s necessary. The riding was abysmal for the most part. Maybe the aptly named Saint Boy wasn’t abused, but he was misused and ill used, and not the only horse to suffer misuse in this event. Changes need to be made before the next Olympics.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

There are multiple comments on FB in response to the UIMP statement about this whole debacle castigating them for the lack of horse welfare protocols, and encouraging officials with the governing body of this sport to coordinate with the FEI, and get half a clue about the basics.

Of particular note, there were no cooling tents for these horses, and concerns about unsound horses being ridden, and lack of any meaningful physical checks of the horses involved after so many were crashed through jumps.

Someone actually linked to the rule book for modern pentathlon, and it appears that their ARE general rules in place concerning sportsmanship, horsemanship, not abusing your mount, etc. But clearly, officials don’t seem to enforce these rules.

Multiple other comments said the 2016 games in Rio were an absolute horror show as well. I tried looking for video of the 2016 jumping, but couldn’t find it. Could only find 2012. Which was definitely alarming to watch as well.

[PracticalCat]

So you’d like to see the rules changed so no crops, whips or spurs are allowed in Olympic show jumping, dressage or eventing as well?
How about bits? Shall we get rid of lots of them too?
Maybe all equestrian events should be bit less since an Olympian should have to use a bit that could cause any discomfort. And the bit that horse had in its mouth probably hurt a good deal worse than the pop on its arse.

[JenEM]

I can’t imagine anyone but the most skilled of riders getting on a strange horse with a 20 minute warmup and jumping around what is essentially a Low JR/AO jumper course–roughly the same height the Eventers are jumping in their stadium rounds. That is a LOT to ask of someone who is not primarily a rider. That’s also a big fence to ask a horse to take a joke over–that’s the kind of height where mistakes really matter. And unlike the rest of the show jumping action, they’re going on grass, on what looked like a regular sports stadium field of some kind, NOT a riding arena.

It would make so much more sense to have something like a 1M show jumping course, or even better, something like a roughly 2nd level dressage test. It still might not be pleasant for the horse, but it’s really a whole lot less risk to horse and rider safety to ask for a sitting trot and collected canter than it is to jump fences that size.

[trubandloki]

@Event_Horse

I was appalled by how many horses came into the ring in a lather. And this was in the horses’ first rounds. Why couldn’t anyone care enough about the horses to sponge them off? Obviously the coaches and riders just view them as a tool, but what about the officials overseeing it all? What about the owners?

The first rider - I think from Brazil - was eliminated after 2 falls. She came in with her hair in a pony tail hanging past the middle of her back and the collar on one side of her jacket was standing up. Now, I know appearances do not make a rider, but to me it spoke volumes as to the lack of respect for this phase. I can’t believe they let them continue after a fall. It was on the first fall the horse took - he went to his knees as he crashed through the fence. Neither the rider nor the horse were examined thoroughly before she was popped back on and continued.

The Japanese riders looked terrified and were terrifying to watch. They were hanging onto the horses’ mouths for dear life yet their reins kept getting longer and longer and longer.

I am upset about this situation but I think some of your outrage points are misplaced.

Some horses get lathered with very little work in the heat. Some of those horses are very fit and there is absolutely nothing wrong with them. Like some people, they just sweat more easily than others. With the crazy heat there and the horses going straight from warm-up into the ring, I would expect to see hot horses going into the ring.

There is a professional rider that rides with a long hair tail of feathers. There are professional riders that ride with a loose pony tail. Heck, there is a thread on this very forum about someone doing very well in the hunter ring with a loose pony tail. That whole helmet safety thing. In the Show Jumping ring I do not find it weird to have a pony tail or braid.

[atl_hunter]

@SillyHorse

Maybe the aptly named Saint Boy wasn’t abused, but he was misused and ill used, and not the only horse to suffer misuse in this event.

Agreed. Besides, the definition of abuse is to use for a bad purpose or to misuse. It doesn’t have to be accompanied by violence like some here may want to indicate. What we all witnessed was, indeed, abuse.

As for Saint Boy, I would take that horse in a heartbeat. I know some have hinted that he couldn’t take a joke, but that horse took SEVERAL jokes until he decided that enough is enough. His riders may not have had any sense of self-preservation, but thankfully for the horse he did.

[SillyHorse]

@PracticalCat

So you’d like to see the rules changed so no crops, whips or spurs are allowed in Olympic show jumping, dressage or eventing as well?
How about bits? Shall we get rid of lots of them too?

Internet BS of the highest order. Additionally, you are woefully ignorant of the fact that whips are not allowed in dressage.

@PracticalCat

Maybe all equestrian events should be bit less since an Olympian should have to use a bit that could cause any discomfort. And the bit that horse had in its mouth probably hurt a good deal worse than the pop on its arse.

More ignorant internet BS.

Let me rephrase: no horse should have to be whipped, spurred, slapped, punched, etc., to get it in the ring, at the Olympics or otherwise. All better now?

[Angela_Freda]

He sure did.
I like that #7 horse in the Facebook vid posted by VA Horse Mom.
That’s a nice horse, he really tried to save their round. Ridden by someone halfway competent he’d be very nice.

[Event_Horse]

@trubandloki

I am upset about this situation but I think some of your outrage points are misplaced.

Some horses get lathered with very little work in the heat.

The pentathalon horses were allowed a 20 minute warmup and were that lathered?? Again, this was with their first rider. I watched dressage, eventing, and show jumping and I didn’t see anything near the amount of lather. I am sure the grooms in the other disciplines sponged the horses off. I don’t think my concern was misplaced at all.