Modern Pentathalon

[Manni01]

I feel for you, being the only one around who actually has any knowledge about this sport….

My only experience is watching this WC qualifier in Sarasota ( you were probably there as well) and riding in equestrian competitions during my time in University which were actually done with borrowed horses….

I never ever experienced any bad situations in those competitions (although of course somebody here told me how stupid and unfair they were ) and I do admit that I thought the format in a Pentathlon would be similar….

Sarasota told me otherwise and I am surprised that something like with the German rider hasn’t happen before…… the format asks for it…… but I am also surprised that everybody is focusing on the German rider…. The horse was screwed by the Russian rider already it’s amazing that nobody ever watched that ride….

This thread did not change my mind about the situation and it confirmed for me the quality of many discussions in discussion boards……
I still believe the article I posted was pretty up to the situation….

Hopefully the discussion will not drive you away I did enjoy your knowledge!

[hoopoe]

JER. Where do you get the idea that archery is dangerous?

I compete on the national level and believe me, when you are in a room shooting with 200 other people…no it is not dangerous. Line rules are controlled and I can compete anywhere in the world as we all use the same line rules.

I will defer to your Pentathlon expertise but archery, no

[Ponyplusaninch]

Lemme see how I can edit screenshots so you can’t see names/indicators of who these folks are, and I will.

Yeah I was super surprised. It was just three people but these are people I don’t interact with that regularly.

One was trying to bait me with the whole “have you seen this?!” and then asking me how that impacts how I treat my horse lolololololol. God I wish I was treated as nice as my horse. He just got new ice vibe boots, and when he finishes his tour de baby green this week, he has a masseuse coming to him for 90 minutes.

All three specifically cited the pentathlon.

I do think this is the most negative press I’ve seen, at least outside racing.

[Ponyplusaninch]

Oh I did for two of them! Trying to salvage the conversation with a third… like if there’s an opportunity for education, I want to give it.

It’s so aggravating that a small percentage of bad apples can ruin things for everyone else doing it right.

[endlessclimb]

Well, then quit openly crapping on the ideas that outliers to the sport have, as you have been for this entire thread. Your chosen sport brought this hellfire down on us, so please pardon me when I don’t think ‘self governing’ is working well for yall. You proved it for us all. At the effing OLYMPICS.

[endlessclimb]

@Darkwave

I appreciate some of your sentiment, but I think you’re targeting the wrong person. From what I can see, JER has been an advocate for change and improvement within Pentathlon.

@Djones

I don’t think she’s targeting anyone but the organizing body.

To both of you, I give you this quote from JER:

@JER

I appreciate your helpful suggestions to dismantle a sport you’re unfamiliar with - much the same way people on this forum react when non-horse people try to tell them what to do in equestrian sports.

[Djones]

Endless climb maybe setting her on fire would make you feel better? Good heavens you.take things.too.far.

[Equkelly]

@Djones

Endless climb maybe setting her on fire would make you feel better? Good heavens you.take things.too.far.

That’s just what she does. Don’t take it personally @JER. A lot of us are mad at the organizers of Modern Penthathalon but really appreciate you taking the time to explain and share insights with us.

[MHM]

@Jealoushe

Points or not the man is an abuser so let’s not share his name in the sake of the vicitms.

Has this ever been verified in any way?

To clarify, I don’t know him, or anything about him, other than what is public knowledge about his competitive record.

But I don’t remember ever seeing a link to any charges or news articles on the subject about him.

[endlessclimb]

Perhaps she could be less poo pooing of people’s completely valid ideas, and I wouldn’t have come in blazing. LOTS of wonderful ideas here on how to care better for the horses that are innocent bystanders in all this, all while creating a better public persona for an off-shoot sport that jades the entire horse industry at this point with the S-Show of the Olympics.

And equkelly, you must use a lot of windex on that glass house. <3 Aren’t you one to advocate for the horses, no matter what? How hypocritical to take the other side here - that competition with BS riders trying to BS their way through a 4’ (4’!!!) course should make your blood curdle. Where’s your outrage now?

[endlessclimb]

@NYCspaz

I do support 100% that the round should finish after the first fall. I think we all know how rattled the nerves can get after a fall, and having to get right back on and finish the course with those nerves plus the nerves of being on international TV, the nerves of riding a horse over a 1.2 m fences…as the German rider exemplified, there are already enough nerves involved without adding post-fall nerves to it all, which will only make the situation much, much worse for both horse and rider. Especially as they are still on the clock so barely take a shallow breath before continuing on.

I do love the idea of switching the shooting out from running and make it mounted shooting instead.

If nothing else, the jumps must be lower than 1 meter IMHO.

I also have a question about the tack - I’m assuming each horse has their own saddle and bridle and the riders bring their own stirrups? Asking because I saw some riders in saddles that looked too small which I’m sure didn’t help much. If they are the horses’ own saddles, are all the saddles the same size…?

NYC included these suggestions, which I think we, horse people, who are astounded by the MP performances, can all agree on.

Elicited this response:

@JER

I appreciate your helpful suggestions to dismantle a sport you’re unfamiliar with - much the same way people on this forum react when non-horse people try to tell them what to do in equestrian sports.

Just to put it all in the same post. This^ attitude is how we got to witness that Olympic err… “performance.”

[MHM]

I don’t know if pentathlon is included, but on his Facebook page, John Kyle Live posted a link to watch all of the equestrian activities from Tokyo. So maybe the videos are available there.

John Kyle is the British commentator who did the coverage of equestrian sports for the NBC live stream from the Olympics.

[Equkelly]

I think we should just all ignore the person trying to turn this productive conversation into a toxic dumpster fire. Let’s just all try not to bite and carry on.

I have not seen one person here who thinks MP should remain as. I think this is one of the few times where everyone agrees that something should change.

My thoughts, after hearing from @JER about the running/ swimming times, are that it sounds to me like the bar is literally set too high for the equestrian phase. These athletes are running and swimming at a high school elite level but they’re jumping higher than IEA, IHSA, or even NCAA division 1 schools are. That’s completely disproportionate and that’s where the issue is in my opinion. You cannot compare the height to someone jumping at home at a local show on their own horse because that is different sport. Keep the level of difficulty consistent with other sports and put the jumps at IEA height.

[MHM]

@Equkelly

These athletes are running and swimming at a high school elite level but they’re jumping higher than IEA, IHSA, or even NCAA division 1 schools are.

Even that is not an accurate comparison, since the school programs all involve teams that provide horses for their own competitions, so they are not trying to round up random horses from random sources every time there’s a show.

And since their own riders will also be drawing from that pool of horses, the host school needs to make sure that their horses can do the job. It does not sound like that is the case for pentathlon at all.

And even then, there are days at an IEA or IHSA competition where a horse has just had enough, and there is a system in place to pull him out for the rest of the day and substitute a different horse. Again, it does not sound like that happens in an appropriate fashion in pentathlon.

Personally, I’m still inclined to think the best idea is to just swap out the horses for bicycles and be done with it. There’s a much lower risk of serious injury or worse for both the humans and the horses that way. And it would be much easier to round up 40 appropriate bikes than 40 appropriate horses, that’s for sure.

Really, it would be like taking a triathlon and adding fencing and shooting to it to make up a pentathlon.

The fencing is no less outdated than the horse from the roots of the sport. But the epée (?) cannot get hurt in practice or in competition. Or if it does, you can just pull another one out of the case and carry on.

[NYCspaz]

Thank you, you said it better than I could have and with much more tact I’m just here trying to learn more about this sport, but the response I got just made me a whole lot less interested.

[poltroon]

As equestrians, I think we have good expertise in how to reconsider the rules and format of the show jumping phase to make it the intended test while protecting the safety of horses and athletes, especially in an environment with borrowed horses. We have experience with many such competitions and how they can be conducted safely and appropriately.

What I think we don’t have expertise is when we start throwing out other sports to put in instead. That would solely be a matter for the people invested in pentathalon - athletes and coaches and experts - to decide, in terms of what parameters and skills are considered important. Most of us can’t even explain how pentathalon is scored.

If Pentathalon decides they want to consider a different horse sport, of course we might have some ideas. But the athletes there already have invested in the existing 5 sports and telling them to pick up a wholly new one instead with little thought to the implications is probably not helpful.

[Equkelly]

@MHM

Even that is not an accurate comparison, since the school programs all involve teams that provide horses for their own competitions, so they are not trying to round up random horses from random sources every time there’s a show.

It kind of is how IEA/ IHSA works though. It takes like 30-40 horses to put on a horse show and no team has 30-40 lesson horses. Most of the times they kind of are “random” horses that the teams will just borrow for the day. And at the zone/ national level they’re usually really NICE horses too.

[MHM]

@poltroon

But the athletes there already have invested in the existing 5 sports and telling them to pick up a wholly new one instead with little thought to the implications is probably not helpful.

I get that.

But if the firestorm of bad press and attention from the treatment of horses in the pentathlon results in all horse sports getting kicked out of the Olympics, that makes it the problem of all horse people, not just the pentathlon people.

[MHM]

But they are generally getting horses from other schools, or boarders in that barn’s program. They are not random unknown horses in that no one has ever seen them before at such a competition.

College A might host a show one week with 20 of their own horses, and 10 horses that College B brought with them for the show. Then the next week, College B might host their own show with 20 of their horses, and 10 horses that College A brought with them.

So the kids will be excited to see their favorite horse get off the truck from the other college, and say, “Sweet, Dobbin’s here, I hope I draw him for my class!”

Many years ago, we loaned a horse to someone for an IHSA show, and he won every class he did that day with every single rider who drew him. After the first class or two, the kids were praying that they would draw his name out of the hat.

It does not sound like that’s how the pentathlon works at all.

[Equkelly]

@poltroon

If Pentathalon decides they want to consider a different horse sport, of course we might have some ideas. But the athletes there already have invested in the existing 5 sports and telling them to pick up a wholly new one instead with little thought to the implications is probably not helpful.

Agreed to all of this, 100%. Also, I LIKE that our sport is represented. I think it’s great for more people to learn how to ride a horse. As long as they are in fact learning how to ride and the riding that their doing is appropriate, I’m happy for more people to come in to the sport. Anyone can learn to ride. It’s not our club only and we’re not the only ones entitled to horses. You can be an athlete in other sports and do ours too.