Modern Pentathalon

[Djones]

Yes, I am pretty active on social media. There’s a lot about eating frozen honey,oh my.

It’s not trending on Twitter, nor in their sports, nor in #Tokyo2020. FB news is tailored to you, so there’s that. As for the quality or scope of the groups you’re in, well, that is whatever it is. I know it WAS a headline. That was also Monday. Today is Wednesday.

Guys the winning team won because they have good riders. Tada. Get better riders, win better prizes.

Yes, I think that the sport needs to be changed, maybe eliminate riding and replace it with technical bike riding or bouldering or something. Heck if the riders can’t canter a spiral circle or do a b and c in the warm up they don’t advance. Crash one fence= 100 penalties, something toothy like that. At the same time I don’t see how beating up on @JER advances anyone or anything in that direction. Do you, @endlessclimb or @trubandloki?

[JER]

@Djones

At the same time I don’t see how beating up on @JER advances anyone or anything in that direction. Do you, @endlessclimb or @trubandloki?

Thanks but don’t worry about me getting beat up.

I’m quite skilled with swords and pistols and if necessary can get away by running, swimming or on horseback.

[trubandloki]

@Djones

At the same time I don’t see how beating up on @JER advances anyone or anything in that direction. Do you, @endlessclimb or @trubandloki?

Um. Not sure why you lumped me in there. The only thing I have said negative to @JER in this whole thread is that I find it appalling that her answer was “a horse died in eventing” implying that since none died here everyone should just look away. I strongly think that we horse people need to stick together. That does not mean put our head in the sand and ignore bad things, it also does not mean tossing another horse sport under the bus when our preferred sport does something wrong.

Other than that I have just participated in the conversation.

This rider made this sport come to the attention of lots of people that are going to use it against people like Jer and those who want to do it right. This rider and the ranting about the horse being at fault are the problem here.

I have been saying that I think something like making the fences smaller or change the scoring so riding counts enough that they want to work harder at it seems like a great solution.

I think Jer has been fighting an uphill battle for a long time and that battle has been made even more difficult because of the actions of this rider. Though maybe this situation will help people like Jer in the long run, in their goal to make this sport better.

And though I find Equkelly’s one post ironic, laughable even, I totally agree with the comparison they brought up that it seems contrary that the levels of the other sports are at one level so why is the riding at a totally different level.

[Equkelly]

@trubandloki

And though I find Equkelly’s one post ironic, laughable even,

You know you can just make your point and not be mean and snarky right?

[MHM]

@JER

I’m quite skilled with swords and pistols and if necessary can get away by running, swimming or on horseback.

It’s too bad the pentathletes we saw at the Olympics could not all say the same thing.

[hb]

@B-burg_Dressage

So how do you/we/whoever get people to realize that it takes lots of lessons to be good at riding like it does fencing? I think we can all agree the crux of the issue is that it sounds like some of the athletes don’t take the riding portion seriously (the whole complete versus compete thing mentioned upthread).

Make it easier to be eliminated for bad riding. One fall, eliminated. No more two refusals and move on to the next obstacle, make it three refusals anywhere on course, eliminated. That will force the athletes to become proficient and at least able to hang on and get around.

[JER]

@MHM

It’s too bad the pentathletes we saw at the Olympics could not all say the same thing.

Maybe you think that plays funny as a one liner but I highly recommend watching the whole competition before making these sweeping statements. There were many excellent athletes in the field and some very nice rides.

[trubandloki]

I have not watched all of this year’s riders and I have not seen any of the other parts of the Pentathlon, but after watching the riding from that other year (posted above somewhere) I have to agree, there are some excellent athletes. It takes quite a bit to jump that height … period. And even the scariest of rider made it very clear that they are a fit athlete. Some impressive riders too.

[MHM]

@JER

There were many excellent athletes in the field and some very nice rides.

No doubt. Note that I used the words “not all” in my statement, which allows for the fact that some of them could say that.

Unfortunately, the one who has drawn all the negative attention from all corners of the world to Olympic horse sports in general, not just pentathlon, did not have a very nice ride. Whether or not she was an excellent athlete otherwise.

[capalypinto]

They should just take the horses out of it like they took the animals out of the circus. Give them Hobby Horses. Same course, same jumps, same height. That way, at least we could laugh instead of cry. I’m sure many toy stores would be willing to donate.
HOBBY HORSES

[Peggy]

My first awareness of MP was after the Mexico City games in 1968. My parents attended as part of group of horse enthusiasts (and cooperative spouses) and the group attended at least the riding portion of the MP. Based on my recollection of the photos and the Sam Savitt book with illustrations from that Olympics that I dug out, the course there was at least partially cross country. I don’t know if that was typical back then? Solid obstacles don’t seem like the best idea, but I highly doubt they were 1.2 m! It seemed like kind of a neat sport. Hence, when the Olympics came to Los Angeles in 1984, we trekked down to Coto de Caza to watch. I don’t recall the jumps being as big as 1.2 m: they looked more like the 1.1-m courses I jumped in the AA jumpers. My photos that I just also dug out are consistent with that memory. There was some interesting riding, but I don’t recall anything too horrific. The newspaper clipping does refer to a horse that “threw” the first rider three times, but the second rider managed a score of 980.

Has the Olympic standard always been 1.2-m? Based on my observations in 1984, it was not then.

I have zero problem with half chaps. Heck, get rid of the jacket and have them dress more like an eventer in the cross country phase. While it would be nice to see more body protectors or vests, I don’t recall seeing many in the regular show jumping.

Based on what I’ve read here it seems that both some rule changes (lowering the fences, elimination for fall of horse or rider, more generous time allowed or optimum time, maybe increasing the number of points deducted once the refusals get past three or when multiple poles are knocked down) plus enforcement of the rules that are in place (including having officials exercise the right to remove riders or horses for dangerous or unsuitable behavior) is in order. It doesn’t seem that the official international governing body, like so many others, is helping.

[MHM]

@Peggy

While it would be nice to see more body protectors or vests, I don’t recall seeing many in the regular show jumping.

There may have been more vests in the regular show jumping than you think. I know some of the riders wear the vest that is incorporated into the jacket, so you might not know it was there unless it inflated.

When the one rider fell off and did not get up right away, I wondered if his vest might have knocked the wind out of him a little bit.

[Peggy]

There were definitely some in show jumping and some additional jacket outlines that looked like they may have had one incorporated. But I don’t think as many as I saw at the one USEF show I attended last month. It was the first show I attended since Covid and the biggest thing I noticed was the air vests. One of the barns that runs out of the show facility requires them, so that was part of it.

[endlessclimb]

No one is attacking anyone personally. What they’re attacking is the poo-pooing of any suggestions to keep the riders and (more importantly) horses safer, saying they’re dismantling a sport they don’t understand.

I don’t need to understand much to see those show jumping rounds and know it’s unfair and unethical to the horses.

Full stop.

Me suggesting a change so that we all, equestrians, can show we actually care about the horses, is not dismantling the sport, nor is it out of turn. You are in the Olympics, you go on the global stage and undertake global criticism, which is more than warranted after that… performance.

I’m not sorry that I’m (in a word used by another) OUTRAGED that the animals were subjected to that. It is absolutely unacceptable to show that lack of horsemanship on the global stage. Defending it, at all, speaks to the persons horsemanship skills.

It was abuse. Crashing horses through fences you don’t have the skill to ride over IS ABUSE. Condoning it, or having no desire to prevent it, is complicit to abuse.

If this ever happens again, shame be to anyone who supports the sport at all. Maybe the other phases are all fine and good, but this one is NOT.

[MHM]

@endlessclimb

It is absolutely unacceptable to show that lack of horsemanship on the global stage.

I’m going to chime in and say it is unacceptable at any level, including 4-H or pony club or anywhere else, for that matter.

But it does make you wonder if that is how they behave in the most public possible venue, what goes on at smaller venues?

[Equkelly]

I don’t think anyone here saw the riding in MP as acceptable. I think we’re all here participating in this discussion because we want to see changes. I think those involved and not involved actually all agree.

Just because someone didn’t like your idea doesn’t mean they’re “poo pooing” (wtf does that even mean) all over any suggestions at how to improve the sport. Maybe don’t walk in here and derail a perfectly good discussion because you have a different opinion.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

I think it’s unfortunate the thread is getting snippy.

I for one have found @JER ‘s insight really interesting… especially about the net effect that having a tone deaf, insular governing body, and the role the officials play in the mess.

Honestly… that IS important food for thought. It’s hard to reform a sport or achieve a needed change in the culture of the sport if your governing body is insular and tone deaf, and the officials are perhaps less than likely to enforce rules in an even handed manner… again… because it’s an insular sport with certain people who are favored…

Kind of interesting eventing got brought up in the course of this discussion…

[jaj]

From tne Free Dictionary:

poo-poo

1. noun An outright dismissal of some argument as being unworthy of consideration or debate.My idea could save the company millions, but I’m still expecting a poo-poo from the board of directors because of how radical it is.

2. verb To dismiss something outright, without any due consideration or debate.Don’t poo-poo her idea before she’s had the chance to explain the ins and outs of it!He’s always poo-pooing his assistant’s ideas.

[MHM]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

It’s hard to reform a sport or achieve a needed change in the culture of the sport if your governing body is insular and tone deaf, and the officials are perhaps less than likely to enforce rules in an even handed manner…

Women’s gymnastics, anyone?

Obviously it’s a completely different thing. But that group did not clean up their house from the inside, even though they had years and years to do it.

And how many additional athletes suffered in the interim?

[Haliburton]

@JER

There are countries with weak fencing too so I’m not sure that everyone everywhere is fencing instead of riding. BTW, the US for the most part is very weak in fencing too.

The only difference is that when the athlete is weak at riding the horse suffers and/or the rider gets injured. Horses aren’t a tool to be picked up on a whim, they are sentient beings that feel and therefore experience pain and suffering.