Modern Pentathalon

[endlessclimb]

Years. Years and years.

That’s how long MP has had to (even if from within, thwarting the upper management) show that they give a damn about the horses.

And that’s how long everyone, even those who claim to care, continued to compete. Continued to support the sport. Turned a blind eye - maybe they were vocal, but talk is cheap. Went to competitions. Paid their entry fees.

That’s like saying “I support Mexican rodeos, but MAN I wish they would stop horse tripping!” while still paying to get in.

You don’t get to have it both ways. It is LONG past the time that the athletes should have walked away if horse welfare is a priority to them.

But, JER stated it best. It’s a good way to shake up the leaderboard, and the replacement sport won’t be able to do that! … says all I need to know.

If I’m ever asked by anyone if they should allow MP to use their horse, even for pay, it will be an EMPHATIC no. I like my horses too much to put them through that garbage.

[Night_Flight]

I hope that my questions haven’t offended you. I’m genuinely trying to understand how it’s gotten to this point if there are athletes and national federations who do want there to be change in the sport.

[Sticky_Situation]

I do find myself rolling my eyes at how many people act as though catch riding around a 1.20m course is some sort of trivial skill that any decent equitation kid or competent amateur can do.

Sure, that’s fairly accurate at 1.0m, but at that height a reasonably athletic horse can still jump from just about any distance or pace, so the rider can miss pretty badly and not have it turn out ugly. Hell, I could probably do it.

That isn’t the case at 1.20m and the percent of riders out in the greater equestrian world with the skill to get on a horse 15 minutes beforehand, jump a couple fences, and then get around smoothly is not really all that high. Let alone getting on a horse that just had a bad go with another rider and trying to do the same.

Changes are definitely needed, and there was certainly some bad riding seen, but it also seems like some decent and quite good riders are getting unfairly crapped on.

[JER]

@Night_Flight

I hope that my questions haven’t offended you. I’m genuinely trying to understand how it’s gotten to this point if there are athletes and national federations who do want there to be change in the sport.

Not offended at all. I really appreciate all the interest in our unusual sport.

There are several federations that have supported the illegal vote or perhaps the decision of the illegal vote. There was one athlete on the call who spoke sort of in favor of the change but I had it on good information for some time before (before there was even a call scheduled) then that the athlete had been bullied into it by their federation. The athlete purported to tell a story about a poor horse draw keeping them from an Olympic place although the actual evidence - results from the competition - did not support the story.

So far, most NFs have criticized the secret vote and the elimination of riding. The Danish federation took legal action. The Swedish federation said ‘keep riding or resign’ to the leadership. Support for riding has far outweighed support of its elimination.

[sascha]

Right, plenty of poorly treated and ridden horses at horse shows somehow makes the abuse that occurs AT the freaking Olympics all ok.

Got it.

Please give your head a shake. Pointing out other negative things that are maybe kinda sorta if you squint just right a little bit almost similar does not make your case for I WANNA STILL HAVE RIDING IN THE PENTATHATHATHALON!!! any stronger.

[endlessclimb]

No one has ever said that that catch riding 1.20 is easy.

Actually, we have all said the opposite.

We are saying that the level needed needs to match the LOWEST rider. Or challenge them in another way. Mistakes at 1.20 punish the horse as much or more than the rider.

Unless there are standards that are ACTUALLY maintained, and “TDs” or their equivalents that will 100% pull a rider who is being abusive or unsafe, riding needs to be removed from the sport. Learning “on the job” when there’s an animal in the mix is not acceptable.

[JER]

@sascha

Right, plenty of poorly treated and ridden horses at horse shows somehow makes the abuse that occurs AT the freaking Olympics all ok.

Got it.

Please give your head a shake. Pointing out other negative things that are maybe kinda sorta if you squint just right a little bit almost similar does not make your case for I WANNA STILL HAVE RIDING IN THE PENTATHATHATHALON!!! any stronger.

You’re trying very hard to make this thread all about you.

It’s really annoying as you contribute nothing substantial to the discussion.

You’re obviously impervious to social cues so I will ask you kindly to go seek attention elsewhere and not clutter an otherwise interesting and informative discussion.

(There used to be an Ignore function on this forum - too bad it’s gone.)

[MHM]

@JER

There used to be an Ignore function on this forum - too bad it’s gone.

It still exists, doesn’t it? I haven’t used it, but others have mentioned it.

[JER]

@MHM

It still exists, doesn’t it? I haven’t used it, but others have mentioned it.

I thought it had gone away. Or at least it had at some interval.

I solved the problem of annoying posters - like the drunk lawyer who posted on here that I killed my horse - by not coming to this BB anymore.

[MadTrotter]

Click their name in the post, click it again when the window pops up, click the tab on the right (says “normal” by default), click mute or ignore

[endlessclimb]

Are we supposed to beg you to stay now?

Bye felicia.

[JER]

Thanks!

[JER]

@endlessclimb

Are we supposed to beg you to stay now?

Oh, I’m sorry. I forgot you and gave sascha all the attention.

That wasn’t really fair considering you’re almost as annoying.

[endlessclimb]

What a shining example of Modern Pentathlon. I’ll be sure to recommend it to all the kids.

I’m sure you’ll be getting new participants in droves after that stellar Olympic display.

[Sticky_Situation]

Blockquote
Learning “on the job” when there’s an animal in the mix is not acceptable.

I disagree with this. Learning on the job is ok, as long as the amount of stress to the horse is minimized. Even in the “regular” equestrian disciplines at the Olympics, some people will have far more experience than others, and some will be competing at that level for the first time and not be competitive, but be learning. Unless you’re practicing on a carousel horse, all learning in equestrian sports is “learning on the job” as far as the horse is concerned … the horse doesn’t know if he’s at the Olympics or not when the rider misses three distances in a row. Learning on the job and making mistakes is fine … overfacing yourself where it’s punishing the horse isn’t.

There needs to be much more consideration for horse welfare than the PTB at UIPM have shown, but it’s also okay if horses occasionally need to put up with rider mistakes.

[endlessclimb]

At 2’6" I can kind of get on board, along with the rider standards going WAY WAY WAY up.

Keep in mind that the “regular” Olympics, the riders are not catch riding.

But learning how to navigate a 1.20m course, while on a 1.20m course, on a horse you’ve never ridden before…

Not ok.

[Sticky_Situation]

I do agree that nobody should be learning to jump 1.20m the first time by catch-riding over it at the Olympics. It was just the blanket statement that learning on the job is wrong when animals are involved that rubbed me the wrong way a bit … it sounds a little too close to the arguments made by animal rights types against all equestrian sports.

[endlessclimb]

I understand your concern - it certainly can be read that way.

I would expect the level of riding skill at the Olympics to be heads and tails better than what we saw. I mean, for me: I would be absolutely humiliated over ONE miss on that level of competition, let alone that being my M.O. of how to get around a course. I’m pissed at myself if I miss at 2’, let alone 4’.

My rub comes that there are teams of these MP nincompoops at the highest level. They flat out do not care that their riding is hurting the animal they’re sitting on. The coaches don’t care. The competitors don’t care. The organizing body doesn’t care. The “TD” or equivalent doesn’t care.

Not only do they not care about the horse, they don’t care about themselves - they get back on after falling off and continue! It shows, clear as day, the spirit of the riding phase.

Those two things clearly illustrate the giant cultural issue with the sport. Until people like JER are willing to walk away, to stop shoveling money and participation into the mouth of the beast, to stop encouraging other to join this “great sport” - it won’t stop. It allows for a convenient cop out to say “welp, I tried talking to them and they wouldn’t listen!! Oh well, when’s the next competition again?”

[JER]

@endlessclimb

Those two things clearly illustrate the giant cultural issue with the sport. Until people like JER are willing to walk away, to stop shoveling money and participation into the mouth of the beast, to stop encouraging other to join this “great sport” - it won’t stop.

The only entity ‘shoveling money’ into pentathlon is the IOC who funds the UIPM.

Local/national competitions are run with the expected regard for horse welfare. It’s often competitors and their friends loaning the horses. The owners are almost always present to give advice to the riders. It’s a totally different scene.

A select few of the NFs are well-funded by their own national sport authorities. This is like Team GB that gets about $5 million for the current Paris quad. France, Italy, Korea are all well-funded too. Other NFs, like Canada, get $0 and all athletes are self-funded. But even the countries that are well-funded run national competitions (which are autonomous and not UIPM) and are generally using a pool of horses they have connections to.

You can compete in pentathlon at national and even open international levels and $0 of your money will ever go to UIPM. Pentathlon, like most smaller sports, isn’t a profit-making machine.

[poltroon]

Appreciate your contributions here, JER, thanks for taking the time to tell us about pentathlon from the inside.