Money or nothing

[Mander]

In college I had no money to ride, but desperately wanted to so I called around to every barn within 40 minutes of me and finally got a chance to be a working student a few hours/week for a trainer at a lesson barn. The deal was one 30 minute lesson for every 15 hours I worked, for a whopping hourly “pay” of just over $3/hr. Of course, the trainer was only there a few hours after school on a few days per week - I often spent more time in the car commuting than I did actually working (and each trip probably cost me $10 in gas). In addition, the BM did everything she could to try and short me on hours. I usually ended up getting a lesson every 2.5 weeks or so.

I considered taking a gap year after college to do a full time working student position - the only opportunities I could get was an unpaid position (board was included for one horse, not that I had any money to buy one!). There was another position I got an offer for - a trailer on site and $200/mo stipend. I only give the second one some grace because it was a nonprofit OTTB rescue, and actually considered it briefly, but decided not to since my parents were kicking me off their health insurance and getting injured seemed more like a “when” than an “if”. Both of these were sometime around 2016.

[Arelle]

Had a friend looking for a double for her 13U kid recently. Budget started at $150K.

Thank god I’ve found deals on my horses, and they’re pretty damn nice and I can ride reasonably well. But I know that on any given day I’m lucky to be Top 5 solely based on the fact that everything that beat me cost six figures and has the natural given talent to demand that pricing.

It’s cheaper than the hunters, but not by much.

[Trekkie]

I agree, no one should work for nothing in return. I worked at horse farm jobs in high school and college for actual money. Granted, it was minimum wage and the work was not glamorous but I did actually get some riding time (not
lessons) and money to fund my own horse activities.

[Spudsmyguy]

@Arelle

Had a friend looking for a double for her 13U kid recently.

What does this mean?

[Horsegirl_s_Mom]

@Spudsmyguy

What does this mean?

Thank you for asking that! I was thinking I’ve never heard that… finally I guessed maybe a horse that can do both Eq and Hunters?

[vxf111]

This is a stock horse term. As I’ve heard it used, it refers to a youth horse with AQHA and APHA papers so it can show both.

[Paint_Party]

@vxf111

As I’ve heard it used, it refers to a youth horse with AQHA and APHA papers so it can show both.

Yes, this.

13U = 13 and under age group
Double = Both AQHA and Paint papers

[Long_Time_Lurker]

I have been wondering lately if it will remain possible to be a semi-independent amateur, taking weekly lessons rather than being in “full training”. I really enjoy riding my horse on my own most of the time, although I work on “homework” assigned at lessons. I have many years experience, have had my own barn in the past, etc. so feel I am “qualified” to ride without constant supervision. I would probably be qualified to teach basic lessons if I did not want to remain an amateur. It seems that barn after barn is going the route of only taking boarders who are in “full training”, which is much more costly than a weekly lesson and therefore provides the trainer/barn owner more income. It may be a necessary business model for their business to be profitable, but it kind of kills the opportunity for the rider to keep costs down or find a place to keep their “project horse”. Partial care barns for those who want to save more by cleaning their own stalls, or pasture board with shelter and access to a place to ride are even more rare. Trainers want to pick your horse too (the one that gets them a good commission), and your vet, farrier, saddle fitter, etc. You are not allowed to have your own preferences no matter your experience level. You are expected to patronize their sponsors. And to only go to shows with them and pay them $$$ for horse care at the show even if you would rather do it yourself. And have them haul your horse even if you have your own trailer. And to hire their working students to braid for you at shows even if you are a better braider than said working student. And to tip working students for every little thing that you may not even want them to do so the WS will have some income without the trainer having to pay them.

[RemarkableOwl21]

Your post brings to mind a situation I’ve been observing for a couple of years. A recent college graduate begins taking beginner riding lessons. The young person comes from an extremely wealthy family and does not work. This person likes riding, is pretty good at it, and decides to take several lessons per week. Purchases first horse after about a year, in the mid-5 figures range. Taking lessons 5-6 days a week. This person decides they want to be in the Olympics for dressage. Purchases second horse after about 6-12 months, close to 6 figures. Also lessoning daily. A few months later, a third horse is acquired, over 6 figures as I understand. Student taking 3 lessons per day on each horse, attending shows. Every day is train, train, train. Student decides to move to FL to train and show. Sells off the first horse. Within a few months has acquired at least one more very, very expensive horse. Student has gone from total beginner to showing PSG in less than 3 years. I’d say $$$ helps quite a bit.

My main problem with this, as an observer, is that I don’t like the excessive using and discarding of horses, and not seeing the horses as more than a means to achieving the ultimate glory.

[Mander]

More than anything, it’s those tips and (often not so little) extras here and there that really frustrate me. If you tell me “Board is X, lessons are Y, in addition, you’re expected to pay for A, B, and C”, I can budget for all of that. I can even budget for a couple of extras here and there.

What I can’t budget for is, once I’m already there and committed, that I’m expected to pay for this little extra, and pay for that little extra, and “by the way we went ahead and bought [insert very expensive gift] for trainer without discussing with anyone and you can just go ahead and venmo me your portion that you never agreed to”, and “after the show we always go out to eat at a very fancy restaurant and pay for the barn staff’s dinner as a thank you…” and so on and so forth. It’s always presented as “a nice thing” (depending on the barn/person, it might even come with undertones of “you’re not a nice person if you don’t cheerfully participate!”) and it’s “only” just a little bit more.

Perhaps the only thing more exhausting is having to gracefully navigate all of those situations without coming across as miserly or ungenerous, possibly even rude.

[ClearRound]

That’s sad, but true ( and probably my new favorite phrase)

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

All of this. At two barns I rode at, the amount spent as gifts for the trainers and, to a lesser extent, the barn staff during the holidays alone must have added up to several additional thousand dollars. Because I was sort of a peripheral half-leaser, and, in one instance, was lessoning with an outside trainer, I kind of made the bare minimum contribution, but some people must have put in more money than I spent on my entire family.

And yes, it was never enough just to have a casual dinner, or even for people to bring their own snacks. Everything had to be an event–the most expensive restaurant, everyone paying money so there could be coolers full of food, pizza ordered in, a portable grill for grilling burgers at shows (shows that had on-site food tents).

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

In all honesty, this doesn’t “bother” me, because at least the person is putting in the work to do better, just using their (considerable) financial assets to do so, and presumably the horses sold are useful to other competitors. But yes, it does highlight how someone with equal or more talent who does work can’t compete against someone with these resources.

[findeight]

I dunno…don’t really think selling one and moving up to a horse capable of advancing rider to the next level is “discarding” it. Most of us find our horses because the seller has outgrown them, aged out or is stepping down. Good thing these people make them available to other riders so they can learn on a BTDT schoolmaster. If not for them, where would we get our horses?

Also think comparing a typical Ammy to a rider seriously aiming at the elite levels and Olympics is a most extreme example. That rider may have advanced to PSG in 3 years but that sounds like hundreds, actually over a thousand hours under expert guidance and there’s still a very loong way to go with no guarantee of achieving that goal. Good for her.

One other thought on the full care barns…flame suit on for this OPINION but its one based on decades of boarding out in all price ranges and service levels. Its one way for the barn to maintain high health standards and too many owners looking to save on horse keeping costs don’t keep up on health care.

Not a popular thought but can be very true. Its the barns property and business and their choice to require or even manage vet, farrier etc. services to their standard. Some owners neglect to add that into their budget and just skip it. At the expense of their horses and the other horses in the barn population.

[Long_Time_Lurker]

@findeight

Its the barns property and business and their choice to require or even manage vet, farrier etc. services to their standard. Some owners neglect to add that into their budget and just skip it. At the expense of their horses and the other horses in the barn population.

This is a good point, I agree that horses should not be allowed to go without basic vet or farrier care. But if I move there and have a vet or farrier of 20 years that I would prefer am I expected to dump him and use the less experienced vet that gives trainer a discount on her own horses if she requires EVERYONE to use him? And if she buys a Theraplate and a Bemer blanket should I be expected to use them every day even if my horse doesn’t need them, paying a fee to do so AND a tip to barn staff for actually putting horse on Theraplate and Bemer on horse? Because we can’t let AMATEURS use this expensive equipment THEMSELVES (but staff member hired last week and a novice at handling horses is qualified).

[findeight]

IME it has nothing to to with looking down at ignorant Ammys and everything to do with a consistent schedule plus keeping everybody and everything safe and healthy. Set vet days with regular barn vets/farriers keeps multiple vets/farriers treating multiple horses for multiple owners at random times during the barn operating hours from creating issues with training, lessons and barn routine.

Am sure you keep keep your horse impeccably and do as you say but many say they do then don’t after they get into the barn. Sad fact of life in many boarding barns and both horses and other boarders plus the BO/BM can suffer for that failure.

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

Same. I have it now stored in my arsenal along with my favorite reference to pony finals aka “The Minion Olympics”

[Spudsmyguy]

Ah, thank you both.

I used to take lessons with one trainer who had a pretty big name saddle brand as a sponsor. Before you knew it, every student in her full board and training program had a brand new one. I wasn’t one of those as I was a once a week haul in. At least one student, got rid of it when she stopped training with this particular trainer. I had a saddle that fit my horse and wasn’t about to drop $$$$ on a new saddle, although I would have loved one.

[Paint_Party]

Coming from a hunter and eq background, when I decided to dip my toe into showing Paints, I made sure to ask a whole lot of questions of the trainer.

Does she bill clients for their share of her food at shows? Nope. She said she’d be eating if she were at home. (Rarely does she dine at a restaurant on the road).

Do clients cover her lodging? Nope. She has two 6-horse vans, both with nice living quarters. (This was a revelation to me, that so many trainers on the AQHA and APHA circuit have posh live-in trailers).

Before taking the big dive I also learned:

-There’s a Thermaplate in the barn. Anyone can use it, no extra charge.
-Holiday gifts and tips are at everyone’s own discretion.
-No saddle or tack sponsors. Trainer will make recommendations, but choose your own.
-There are several farriers who come to the barn. Pick one or use your own.
-Show costs are kept down because at shows we all pitch in to muck, feed and water.

To be clear, I am not in a major metropolitan area, and while this is a full care barn, it is also family-centered, low-key, and most owners are pretty hands-on. But it proves to me that such barns do exist. I couldn’t afford to do this, otherwise.

[NoSuchPerson]

I’m not sure whether or not you meant to suggest that you had to leave the hunter/jumper world to find this but it kind of sounded that way. You can find all of these qualities in hunter/jumper barns. I know that because I’m in one right now and the last place I took lessons was also like that.

As I read through all these posts, it seems to me that some people aren’t acknowledging the wide range of environments in which one can be involved in horses and in which one can “make it.” The overall theme seems to be that it’s money or nothing because it’s AA shows and BNTs or nothing. That is a crazy warped way of looking at it.

As I have mentioned many times here, I show on the local circuit. It’s what I can afford, it’s where I’m comfortable, and it’s where my people are. There are several trainers who always bring a group of well prepared, well turned out riders at all levels on nice horses. They and their students all seem to have a good time. In my opinion, those trainers are successfully “making it.”

By equating “making it” to riding and winning at the very top of the sport, you’re dooming yourselves to a lifetime of disappointment and resentment unless you’re one of those few who have talent, work ethic, and money.