Money or nothing

[Mander]

You’re right, and it’s a good reminder - it’s easy to throw a pity party about all our bad experiences and the times we’ve had to excuse ourselves because of $$$. I imagine most of us here are still having some level of success, despite our financial limitations, even if we’ve had to adjust our sights to more realistic goals along the way.

Some of the barns that tacked on all those extras I complained about earlier also had trainers who went out of their way to provide me some really wonderful, affordable opportunities.

[Victorious]

Honestly…this is the best advice on this whole thread, imo. Look for success where it lays, not where someone else tells you. At the end of the day, we are all privileged to have beautiful, willing horses in our lives.

[Amberley]

Competitively what has REALLY changed is that shows have turned into very expensive destination vacations/ real estate developments. There has always been a circuit and people who travelled that circuit but you used to be able to compete against them by attending local weekend A. B and C shows and doing well enough in classes with enough competitors to get points. I know multiple people who qualified for the Medal or Maclay or won zone, equitation West or even national awards back in the 80s and 90s with barely a single night spent in a hotel. Did one day shows, trailered back and forth or at most stayed Fri morning through Sunday night and took one day off work or school if needed or commuted if that was possible. Did their own care, grooming and braiding.

The B and C circuits are long gone and the As are all at mega venues out in the sticks that have exorbitant stall and haul in fees and everything else fees. Trainers go early (why not- it costs them nothing) and if you want to show with a trainer it’s a week long vacation that you take your horse on every time. It’s out of reach financially or logistically for almost everyone. That’s why the strong 3’6" and up junior and amateur divisions have died and that’s when it only became possible to be competitive if you are utlra-wealthy. That’s also why Europe has so many good riders and they can produce horses so cheaply- an abundance of quality, affordable one and two day shows within easy reach and a commitment to fairness and access for national competitors.

Most American “A level” riders belong on something like the UK Riding Club show circuit skills wise, and would probably be perfectly happy there. There would be less divorces anyway.

[Pokerface]

I hate to sat it, but this is largely a problem we (g) as riders created. So many of the smaller shows (B-C rated as well as unrated) have such abysmal attendance. People seem to be choosing to go to a couple “big” shows a year, WEC and HITS and such, and that is the majority of their show budget. I am lucky to live in an area with an exceptionally healthy local show scene, but I see smaller shows slowly disappearing.

Where I grew up in PA, we had a booming local circuit, and just about everyone in the area went regularly. Nice, but not great, but they were there. One program held an annual Mother’s Day show, and it was always a really nice show and we made a point to attend every year. About 5 years ago, I made a plan with my mom to bring my young TB up for the weekend with the plan to attend the Mother’s Day show. She took her young horse as well. It was empty. There was literally a handful of horses there. They basically made up divisions based on who was there. It was so sad. It’s no wonder that the smaller shows are disappearing while the mega-shows continue to boom.

[Amberley]

Exactly, horse showing has become about lifestyle travel / destination shows and not competition. Which is probably fine for a lot of people who are never going to advance and who can combine their hobby with a fancy vacation but it’s killed the actual competition opportunity for 99.999% of youth and young adults who DO want to go to the Olympics or at least compete on a national stage. This is imho why so many are switching to dressage.

This is also why I’d love to see hunters separated from the Olympic disciplines. Let the hunter people do the lifestyle thing and let the jumper people have their 2 day shows back so they can develop a base of good up and coming riders in the US again.

[Greysallday]

It is true that elite sports are all very expensive, but as someone who grew up in an ‘expensive’ sport with a spouse who now runs a soccer academy, trust me when I say there is no sport to my knowledge that compares to the elite levels of showjumping in terms of cost.

[Horsegirl_s_Mom]

@Amberley

The B and C circuits are long gone and the As are all at mega venues out in the sticks that have exorbitant stall and haul in fees and everything else fees.

I used to take these reports of the death of “B” shows with a grain of salt. When my daughter was actively showing just 5 years ago, we had at least 4 venues within a half hour’s drive (near Sacramento) that put on great 2-4 day B-level (or B-ish) shows. Well-attended, good judges, many lovely horses … and no expensive hotel/travel costs!

Just in this short time, one of the venues has shut down and two others are on life support. Everything is being funneled into Murieta, which is a fabulous facility that I love, but it’s BIG and we’ve lost the variety that is so beneficial to horses and riders. It’s a real shame.

[Willesdon]

Motor sport?

[Pokerface]

@Greysallday

It is true that elite sports are all very expensive, but as someone who grew up in an ‘expensive’ sport with a spouse who now runs a soccer academy, trust me when I say there is no sport to my knowledge that compares to the elite levels of showjumping in terms of cost.

Car racing. The expenses are INSANE. Like tens-HUNDREDS of thousands in a weekend. I dated a guy once who had a racing team, they had a garage to do all the maintenance and repairs, and they would haul customer’s cars to races for them, then coach them and maintain the cars while there. I remember he said to me once “Oh, X owes me $160,000 from the last 2 weekends.” and neither of those weekends was a “big” event, they were relatively local, and not super fancy. I nearly peed my pants at all of it.

The thing is with horses, “making it” is relative. If you’re lucky enough to ride a horse, you are lucky enough. I also am of the (possibly unpopular opinion) that no one is required to subsidize someone else’s expensive hobby. My trainers are very supportive of kids who can’t afford as much, and I offer my horse up to many horse-less kids (and adults) in the barn. I do it because I like them and my horse is ok with it. I don’t owe those kids, and nor do they owe me because I let them ride my horse. Not everyone is in the position to help others out. If you can’t afford it, then you have 3 options: 1. Find a way to afford it. 2. Be extra helpful to people who are in a position to help you/give you the experience.3. Adjust your expectations.

It would be super nice if horses were cheaper, but the reality is. they aren’t. Land, hay, grain, bedding, and labor are all expensive. There truly isn’t much that can be done about that sadly.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

The issue that comes up with the B and C shows is that it’s often easier for trainers just to take the entire barn to a single show, and it’s the same coaching fee and less costly gas-wise to just take the whole barn. Hence, the existence of crossrail classes at A-rated shows (though there are often “opportunity” classes you don’t have to be a USEF member for).

[Paint_Party]

@NoSuchPerson

I’m not sure whether or not you meant to suggest that you had to leave the hunter/jumper world to find this but it kind of sounded that way.

No, not at all! I was fortunate that my parents had our own horse property, so all of our horses were at home. The trainers I did stable with at shows with ran the gamut from very high-end to county level, community trainers.

(Edit to Add): As for the county shows, I think the ones that are run well are fabulous! I not only competed at them regularly, including the year-end shows, but I also judged them fairly often (San Diego county, San Fernando Valley and Orange county shows).

I only meant that after 40 years of doing hunters, and being exposed to how much it can cost, especially in certain markets (I was in SoCalif.) I made sure that when I moved to Arizona and switched to showing Paints that I asked questions. I did not want to get started in a barn and riding/showing program that I could not afford. Hope that makes sense.

[RAyers]

Being famous, making a team does NOT equate to being the best. There are “riders” and there are horsemen. Those are mutually exclusive terms. There are lots of big name riders. There are many, many more unknown great horsemen.

[ThatBayHorse]

I am having some financial shock at the moment. I grew up with horses on our farm and then have been lucky enough to board at private facilities where I basically made my own care decisions in regards to vetting, farrier, etc. pasture board was $450/month for private 1-2 ac paddock and run in, and feed. No blanketing, no holding for vet/farrier, no supplements, but totally amazing facility.

I recently moved to a very horsie part of the country and I’m at my 4th barn in 6 months (like this one a bit). These barns ALL cater to what I call trainer babies. They cannot ride, make decisions, treat a minor wound, make health/feed decisions, take a step without their trainer’s assistance. As a result, all of the barns require lessons AND have very limited feeding options, etc (bc they know best….). My horse has allergies so she has to have daily medication, as well as specific feeding instructions to avoid flare ups. Anything outside of their basic feed options are extra.

These barns run upwards of $1000-$1500/month which I CANNOT afford. There is no reasonable priced place for advanced horse owners. I know enough that I can 100% make all decisions for my horse on my own. I didn’t ride with a trainer for YEARS but did schooling shows with small group of other, competent amateurs. I can trailer my horse myself, warm my horse up, and show my horse without assistance. I can ride my horse on a trail ride or down the road by myself.

I am currently living WAY outside my means, but this current barn is the only barn I can find with what I deem adequate care, flexibility to make decisions, and not a sh*thole. I feel like trainers get away with feeding cheap feed and a flake of hay bc trainer babies don’t know any better so they don’t complain. This place does require lessons but I’m enjoying them, so it’s fine. I am using the proceeds from my last house sale to finance the extra $600/month.

There is not a barn here that is reasonably priced for an experienced horse person to board at. I am lucky that I have some savings or I would 100% be priced out of horses in my current area

[Horsegirl_s_Mom]

Whereabouts are you located?

ETA: I don’t mean to get too specific. I just mean, what state or region? Just interested in comparing costs in different locales.

[Rumorhasit93]

Ugh I so agree with this sentiment.

I was a pro (I use the term loosely - I taught basic basic lessons at a big A barn, mostly scrubbed buckets and rode either the made horses or the ones that didn’t show much).

I am a DIY ammy trying to navigate the A circuit. My last trainer forced me to do full grooming at shows, even though I have FEI grooming experience. I straight up told said trainer that means less money in their pocket because that $800/week in grooming eats into my show budget. That’s easily 3 less shows a year ie less training money for them. I don’t understand the logic.

My new trainer is allowing me to completely DIY. I can tack up in my stall and still clean tack and keep my area presentable. I don’t want to pay splits, etc for stuff I am not using - it’s ridiculous.

Venting, but it sounds like we very much have the same “problem” (I call them champagne people problems, but issues relevant to us nonetheless).

[Long_Time_Lurker]

@NoSuchPerson

As I read through all these posts, it seems to me that some people aren’t acknowledging the wide range of environments in which one can be involved in horses and in which one can “make it.” The overall theme seems to be that it’s money or nothing because it’s AA shows and BNTs or nothing. That is a crazy warped way of looking at it.

The problem is that more and more of the other options are disappearing. Boarding stables that offered pasture board, DIY care, etc. are going out of business, or converting to a more profitable business model. Most barns in my area (30 miles outside of a medium sized city) now at least require you to take lessons from their trainer and more and more are requiring full training and at least pressure to participate in all the extras. DIY anything is at least discouraged if not prohibited. Yes, it is crazy and warped and this is why I am so concerned that other options are already difficult to find and may be disappearing altogether.

[rulex]

@Long_Time_Lurker

this is why I am so concerned that other options are already difficult to find and may be disappearing altogether

In my rural neck of the woods there’s a healthy local circuit, but the problem is finding board with adequate facilities to train year round (decent arena). There are over a dozen facilities with indoors, and the majority are private and don’t take boarders. A couple are not maintained to a usable standard, and that leaves only a small handful of decent ones that take boarders but they often have a wait list and require clients to be in their program. So if your discipline or trainer preferences don’t align with those, you’re out of luck.

Board options definitely are disappearing and it seems more and more that you need to be able to afford to own your own facility as well if you want to be able to ride and show even at a local level.

[Farosh]

Yeah I agree with this sentiment.

I wasn’t super wealthy, the most I ever paid for a horse was 20k and I did it as a lease to buy in 2 years. I worked pretty hard grooming, feeding, braiding, doing stalls, and riding absolutely any horse really just because I enjoyed learning different trades of the industry. I had a few lucky breaks with horses that were super cool but a little quirky. I got to do 1.30s and compete in some other pretty big classes and I was often terrified but also had the time of my life. I even attempted to win a few of those classes when I felt confident lol. I made a lot of nice TBs, greenish WBs, and appendix lesson horses along the way. I had fun and never really felt too burnt out, except for once in awhile.
I currently have a great job in this business, I teach a lot of 1st time riders up through like 2’6” ish then pass them onto the head trainer. I think I’m actually really good at getting people started I’m super proud of my beginners I think they do really well and have fun and make me look good. It makes me happy that in just a few months a lot of little kids I teach show a good basic understanding of pushing, steering, and how their position should be on a horse. You know I may not be the coach of the next Olympic team but whatever lol I feel really happy when my 8 year old student remembers their inside turns of a jump off course and actually steers to the center of every jump. That’s hard I couldn’t even do that at that age!!

I get to go to A rated shows 4x a year and even though I’m a little rusty with my riding due to a few minor injuries in the past few years, I’m gearing up to compete in the 1.20s - 1.25s this summer with a warmblood who is way too fabulous for me and really belongs in the 1.50s with a 6ft tall man . I’m certainly not gonna be in the Olympics ever lol and I’m definitely not rich but I’m having a generally good time and go on vacations and have a nice apartment. I consider myself pretty successful by most measures but yeah idk if that counts as “making it” by most measures. Like yeah I never did the Maclay or the junior jumpers or Hunter derby finals, I’ve never won a jumper classic and I don’t really stand out in any way for being awesome but I can ride 95% of h/j horses reasonably well and when I compete I get good distances and do my correct strides lol. Maybe if I had a bajillion dollars I could’ve done those things lol or maybe probably still not it doesn’t really matter.

I’ve had a lot of working students come and go over the years and honestly they’ve always had every opportunity to do everything at or above their skill level with incredible horses with scope much higher than rider ability and some take advantage of it and some don’t. Whenever I see someone whose parents can’t/won’t support them and they’re really trying hard I always offer them something to do in exchange for more riding time. Some get more into their social life, develop other passions, become too fearful, or some just kind of switch to more casual riding. But whatever it’s not for everyone.

But really, what do you need? To be the best ever? Then yeah you need talent, wealth, luck, and drive. Yes all of it and then even still someone will probably be better than you. Probably even someone younger. But so what. Just enjoy yourself, enjoy horses and try to be better than the last time. If you’re not than oh well. Have a good time. It’s never going to be fun all the time but literally nothing is.

I just feel like everybody complains so much about this industry but I was never wealthy and I got to do a lot of stuff and every coach and boss I’ve ever had has been extremely kind and generous to me. So idk what more people want.

[alternate_universe]

This has been my experience too. I live outside of a midsize city in the Northeast and there are two B show providers in the area. Everything else is A’s or schooling shows at potentially iffy facilities. I am currently not riding and it’s looking unlikely that I will be restarting anytime soon because 1. I cannot afford to pay board at any barn I would want to keep a horse hat 2. Good trainers that can take horseless adults are very limited and 3. Despite having a good paying career I am still not in a position to lease a 4-5 figure/year horse. I have made it this far on partial leases of nice horses that have substantial maintenance needs (and therefore don’t remain useable very long) and trainers that have let me ride their horses or sale horses. My luck seems to have run out.

It’s very frustrating. I spent my entire childhood believing that once I was an adult with a career I would be able to afford to do at least something with horses. Here I am in my early 30s with a career that required a Master’s degree plus additional credits and a license from the state medical board and I still cannot afford to consistently participate in even a local or regional level HJ program.

[2nd_time_around]

I agree. The elephant in the room to me, especially in hunter jumpers, is that the cost of being an amateur and having a decent horse to compete is no longer achievable by the majority of middle income, or even upper middle income people if they have families. Being an educated, experienced horseperson isn’t an asset because there are so few places to board. Most people don’t have facilites to have horses at home anymore, and full training board costs are astronomical. And frustrating for someone who rides their own horse 6 days a week. Lessons are great, but the attitude now is if you can’t come during the day, they are very hard to get. Gone are the days of the trainers being at the barn until 8-9 at night to teach all the kids and amateurs that rode with them. Now they want the 1%ers that don’t have jobs that interfere - but unlike 40 years ago not that many of them actually want anything to do with horses. And that pushes even more kids to making an attempt at being a pro, but there aren’t enough amateurs out there to support all of these pros. I think in another 25 years, in the US at least, the only people with horses will be that 1% of the 1% and the few really elite pros that support that. Maybe I would feel differently if I was overseas.