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Monoflap ponderings

This is why my ancient Passier Monoflap (Military II) will be pried from my cold dead hands. Its brilliant for saving my ass, the balance is fantastic and has webbing instead of leather to which the billets are sewn. No stretching, no tearing and if one billet goes then the other isn’t affected.

I just hunted down a Passier dual flap with the help of Saddle Addictions (FB) that has near identical underpinnings (block, block positioning, tree) as my spare and because one horse seems determined to be a hunter. Annett is unbelievable at stalking down specific models if there’s one you need to find.

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I have 2 voltaire saddles. 1 is a Lexington (monoflap) and the other is a Stuttgart. I honestly love them both. They are both very comfortable. I can’t say that I feel more secure in one than the other. The biggest thing for me is the buffalo leather. I would never buy another saddle without it! They are good about you taking saddles on trial.

Well that’s a very interesting data point! And I agree about the buffalo leather - it’s awesome.

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there is a lot of great information said previously by posters about dual flap vs mono flap saddles, girth / billet attachments etc.

IME it depends on how you feel in the saddle, how close of a feel you like and what knee/ thigh rolls you prefer. I didn’t really notice a difference in mono flap vs dual flap until I moved one of my horses up to the preliminary level many years ago, especially drops or fences with drop landings, I could not get my legs out in front of me enough to help my balance and I would be pitched out the front door.

if you don’t plan on competing at the UL and love the saddle youre currently in, don’t worry about what your trainer is thinking at this point. I think she is looking further down the road in regards to leg and balance placement for the rider at the bigger questions and drops etc.

I have never noticed a problem with mono flap saddles/ stirrup placements being a problem, I’m 5’5’’ for reference. girth lengths do play a role in the fit too. Saddles are definitely a personal preference, throw in a horse’s back and comfort and you try to get the best fit for everyone.

I think this is a crux of the matter - I’m lucky to have a trainer who always looks to the future! Goal is only prelim, but as I said before… horse can be acrobatic :yum:

I might still look into adding bigger knee/calf blocks but leave the monoflap idea alone.

As far as doing bigger fences, drops, etc in a dual flap saddle, mine has seen some pretty extensive prelim miles and done the job fine! IMO it’s much more about the shape of the flap and seat than whether it’s a monoflap or not. An older 1990s equitation-style close contact saddle with a straighter flap may well be a hindrance over big drops, while a dual flap saddle that has a nice forward flap and a seat that is open enough that the cantle won’t smack you in the butt on landing allows you plenty of security over bigger fences and drops.

This is the same saddle I ride in:

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I will say I never understood the trend of adding big blocks to a monoflap saddle. My first monoflap had no blocks at all. Blocks have become so prevalent now that saddle makers won’t make a saddle without them. I had to push two different manufacturers to make my newest saddle without a rear block. I wanted the front one gone as well but they wouldn’t do it.

I block on a monoflap is really unnecessary. The beauty of a monflap is that the saddle will conform to your leg and it causes a pocket to develop right behind the points of the saddle. So monoflaps are naturally secure without blocks. It’s really a shame that you can’t get one made without blocks unless you want to have velcro put on the saddle.

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I strongly prefer monoflaps.
I have a fairly short leg and find that the little bit less bulk under my leg means a little more leg actually ON my horse. Noticeably closer contact feel.

Have had horses go differently in them for sure. An extremely hot, sensitive TB type is almost always a bit touchy the first few rides in a Monoflap. I think they can feel more …. Closer contact and more leg on them from me.

As for adding stability, I honestly think you get less “stability” from a monoflap if anything.
My dual flap County Innovation is what I consider “stable” : fairly deep seat , huge blocks, you aren’t going anywhere.
My Devoucoux Chiberta has such an open seat and blocks that are minimal in comparison, you can basically be anywhere in that saddle - or everywhere all at once. It’s balanced and secure enough but if you’re not solid in picking what position you want to be in , it will let you get yourself in trouble lol.
The County keeps you more confined.

Just my .02!

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Monoflaps have more of a tendency to put their riders in a chair seat.

It really is all about anatomy and personal preference.

Please explain this. I’ve been riding monoflaps for 30 years and have never had a chair seat. I’ve seen plenty of riders in dual flap saddles in a chair seat. Whether you have a chair seat or not is matter of equitation.

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Monoflaps typically are configured with a more forward flap and stirrup bar placement than traditional dual flap saddles.

Some people it doesn’t affect, especially if their anatomy lends them to the forward flap placement. But for some, it does.

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If that’s so I’d imagine it’s because they’re marketed towards XC. I’ve certainly found that a forward stirrup bar is a disaster for me in terms of putting me in a chair seat, which simultaneously makes my lower back really sore.

Why more saddle makers don’t offer adjustable bars is beyond me - the ones on my EQ Saddle Science are a total godsend for me.

I’m really tying to think through chair seats and understand them better and how they relate to saddle construction as well as equitation.

In SaddleHell with a daughter and struggling with everything putting her in a chair seat. I’ve had her in over a dozen saddles and nothing is great, but right now she’s in an old Black Country Quantum–dual flap. It seams the saddles she is best in are not working out for her flat backed horse.

She is very tall and thin and I’m thinking some of it is cause by a lack of core strength. Pony pulls a little and instead of hips forward (all core) her inclination is to tip her shoulder forward, push her butt back and the heels down shoves her lower leg forward and there she is in a chair seat.

I’m built like this. Tall, leggy, not rail-thin but I get told I need an 18” cause of my leg, but my backside fits nicely in a 16”. My horse is short and flat backed. It’s a great combo!

I also find most saddles put me in a chair seat. And a chair seat is unstable, which makes me pitch my upper body and shove my seat back. I KNOW I’m doing it, but I can’t always fight it.

Two saddles that have worked well for me are a 3L (long, slightly forward) CWD and an Ovation San Telmo (also a long, slightly forward flap). I always thought I needed a really forward flap for my leg but it turns out LONG was the key. With a long flap saddle, I can be really comfy in the “normal” stirrup bar placement of most saddle brands. If I were to buy a forward flap for XC I’d have to order a set back bar, since the shorter stirrup puts my base out in front (fine for XC, not great for everything else lol).

Just my experience with saddles!

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Thank you so much for the response! Yes, I was told for years I needed a big saddle18 and even a 19 inches at one point. When I finally got to a place in my life to buy custom it ended up being a little less than 17 1/2. It sounds like you know exactly what the problem is!!

Could you tell me a little about your horse? We are trying to fit a draftX–he looks like a 16 hand pony. The curvier tree French saddles have not worked well for this horse at all. The San Telmo–were the flaps on that as sold?

I have the same issue and two things helped: first finding a saddle with stirrup bars set further back (mines a Voltaire Stuttgart) and second getting the right, smaller seat size.

Saddle sellers often try to fit a long thigh by putting the rider in a super long forward flap and a bigger seat. A combination of smaller seat (correct, not too small) and extra long/forward flap is harder to find. My Voltaire is a 17” seat and 3AAA flap for example.

This combines to help stabilize the seat and get your feet under you.

As mentioned above my dressage saddle has adjustable bars and that’s a game changer for me!

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@subk my horse is a 16 hand TB, built more like a short coupled QH (not downhill either. But low withers). He’s wide, but not astronomically so. A candidate for a hoop tree, or the Stubben NT fits pretty well.

The San Telmo is the regular flap - I bought it off suggestions here actually as an inexpensive adjustable tree saddle for a horse that just hasn’t been in work or sound a lot. It fits him well enough, and fits my leg for flat and low jumping. If I wanted to do 3’6”++ or XC I’d have to rethink. But that’s not what I have it for!

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Having had several draft crosses, part of the key is making sure the saddle has short tree points. They usually inherit the thicker shoulder blade from the draft, longer shoulder blade and often high withers from the TB.
I’ve had success with older Passiers and older Kieffers because they have very short tree points in jumping/dressage models and were built during the eras when TBs were more dominant. I found the top of my old mare’s (1/2 Perch/1/2 TB) shoulder blade rotated into the Stubben NT tree points, especially when jumping. A girth with offset like Prolite/Fairfax/Total Saddle Fit is also valuable so that you can sit the saddle back appropriately relative to the shoulder blades.

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Can you share a photo to what you think a chair seat is. Recently I’ve been following a saddle fitting expert who claims the chair seat isnt what people refer to as a “chair seat” these days and that what people think is a chair seat is actually the same seat you would take while bareback and is correct. So just for curiosity sake I’m interested in your example lol

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My frustrating answer I don’t think a picture would suffice; I think your anatomy plays into whether you’re in a true chair seat or not. Traditionally, a chair-seat would be someone whose ankles/stirrups are well ahead of the ‘plumb line’ that is supposed to be dropped from your head/elbow/hip/ankle and their body is often behind the motion while their feet are ahead of it – think ‘water skiing’. They may also have a ‘driving seat’. But if you are a tall rider, you may not physically be able to keep your ankle in line with your hips and elbow.

I’m reluctant to post a random person’s photo on the internet as an example, because I wouldn’t want them to feel bashed over an internet forum.